If tortoise were to ingest some anti-bacterial medicine?? Odd question incoming.

[mightymizz]

You might have read where I have a 5-6 month old baby that has a very soft plastron, and was possibly having an eye issue as well. I have been putting Neosporin around his eye area at the recommendation of another member, and he seems to be having less issues with this one eye.

If he were to ingest some Neosporin while eating, or while going into his water dish (some might get into the water) and drink it in, would the bacteria in his gut/intestinal tract be diminished to some degree?

If this were to be a possibility, should I offer him some poop from a tortoise (redfoot) I am 100% certain is in fine health to possibly get some good bacteria/flora/fauna (whatever it may be) introduced back into his intestinal tract?

Kind of an odd question, but since they all eat poop anyways, there must be something to it. Not sure if this might be a good thing or not?

 

[ascott]

Why would you not use something like this??

http://www.revivalanimal.com/Terramycin-Ophthalmic-Ointment.html

I think you should pose this question to a reptile vet---I mean, I do not know what the percentage of medication in that ointment would have to reach to become a problem....also, I would not feed poo to your tort unless that poo has been tested....

 

[Redstrike]

For the eye, I would also recommend Terramycin opthalic ointment as Angela has. Neosporin is not meant for eye care. Does the tortoise have an eye infection? What's the humidity running at in the enclosure? I know you've had some concerns for this tortoise previously; any updates?

You can acquire probiotics from Carolina Pet Supply (http://www.carolinapetsupply.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=46) and I know Zoo Med Forest Tortoise Diet has added probiotics from reading the ingredients list. Carolina Pet Supply also sells their TNT supplement with added probiotics for a few dollars more. I'd opt for these methods over coprophagy if it were me.

 

[mightymizz]

Chris thanks for the reply. I never knew there was a word for what I asked about, and now I know a new word!

Humidity in his prior enclosure usually ran about 75%. His new one where he is all by himself is down to about 70%. These numbers are assuming that the gauges (one from Bigapple, the other a more basic digital thermometer that also reads humidity) are accurate. I just feel that finding a hygrometer that I really trust is hard, but maybe that's just me and these are accurate. The enclosure will often have a "foggy" look on the plexiglass covers and view window so there has to be at least some decent humidity in them.

Update on this tort. He is having baby food soaks usually twice a day, definitely once a day. He is still eating decently, although I think I have found out that he doesn't prefer dandilion leaf which is a bummer because that is something I often can feed. Usually I just keep some in their enclosures if they don't eat a certain food, but with this one being "watched" for health, I am going to have to find something different. He will eat a Spring mix and his occasional fruit offering. Him going for food sometimes twice a day is a positive sign at least.

He is not as active as the other guys in his old enclosure, but I do understand that not only has he been moved into a new location, but that he might not be feeling well. Hopefully he will perk up a bit. His eye seems to be doing better at this point.

I will pass on the coprophagy for now!

 

[Redstrike]

Chris thanks for the reply. I never knew there was a word for what I asked about, and now I know a new word!

Humidity in his prior enclosure usually ran about 75%. His new one where he is all by himself is down to about 70%. These numbers are assuming that the gauges (one from Bigapple, the other a more basic digital thermometer that also reads humidity) are accurate. I just feel that finding a hygrometer that I really trust is hard, but maybe that's just me and these are accurate. The enclosure will often have a "foggy" look on the plexiglass covers and view window so there has to be at least some decent humidity in them.

Update on this tort. He is having baby food soaks usually twice a day, definitely once a day. He is still eating decently, although I think I have found out that he doesn't prefer dandilion leaf which is a bummer because that is something I often can feed. Usually I just keep some in their enclosures if they don't eat a certain food, but with this one being "watched" for health, I am going to have to find something different. He will eat a Spring mix and his occasional fruit offering. Him going for food sometimes twice a day is a positive sign at least.

He is not as active as the other guys in his old enclosure, but I do understand that not only has he been moved into a new location, but that he might not be feeling well. Hopefully he will perk up a bit. His eye seems to be doing better at this point.

I will pass on the coprophagy for now!

Humidity at 70% should be fine, I can't see that being the issue with the eye, just wanted to make sure.

Other than a slightly soft plastron and the eye, does the tortoise exhibit any other signs of poor health? Does it eat everyday when food is offered? I'm just trying to get a gauge for the tortoises condition. Post up some pictures when you can and if you need some peace of mind, I'd see a vet. See if one of the recommended vets on here is in your area. The $50-75 visit is well-worth it.

I can't say much about the soft plastron, but I will say two of my smaller juveniles (6-7 months old) still have springy plastrons. I don't anticipate them really firming up until they are at least 4-5" SCL (currently about 3"). I can't remember how old you said that tort was, but I'm trying to ease your mind a bit.

 

[sibi]

What makes you think that the minute ingestion of antibacterial ointment would mess up the good bacteria in his gut? You may just be over anxious and stressing out on something that may not even be a problem. If your tort has diarrhea, then maybe something is bothering his gut. But, short of that, I don't think you need to worry about that especially if you were thinking of feeding him poop. I think you're going a great job caring for your baby. Enjoy watching your baby grow.

 

[Tom O.]

sounds like what happend to my redfoot soft shell almost not eating, something to his eyes and breath problems my is past away..
2 month ago i heard of a medicine called Reptoboost mayby this could help but i live in Belgium.

 

[mightymizz]

Thanks everyone.

The only real thing that is giving me concern ( I'd still like to see his plastron firm up a touch) is that he is not real active.

He will usually stay in one spot all day, I usually feed him after his soak, then he eats and returns. He pretty much has no exploring. I do know babies don't roam much, but this guy seems much less of a mover than what I've experienced in the past.

Eye does seem better also.

 

[mightymizz]

Well here's a little update.

The tort's activity is still minimal. He has now not really eaten like he was. His poop is not your typical younger tortoise poop. It is a little more runny with what almost looks like a light brown substance in it. Possibly some mucus?

Couldn't get into the vet today, so he's going to go tomorrow. Hope he survives.

 

[Moozillion]

RE: If tortoise were to ingest some anti-bacterial medicine?? Odd question incoming

Good luck- I hope your little buddy makes it!

 

[sibi]

If your vet gets some blood work and fecal sample, ask about testing for systemic adenovirus. This virus is now infecting sulawesi tortoises. There are some concerns that it could infect all types of tortoises. Symptoms include loss of appetite, diarrhea, slow or no growth, lethargy, mucosal ulcerations and palatine erosion of the oral cavity, nasal and ocular discharge. If your vet is unfamiliar with the proper testing, he/she can call any vet hosp. Zoology dept. And ask to speak w/their doctors. University of Florida in Gainesville is such a hospital.maybe it's nothing or maybe it can save your tort's life.

 

[mightymizz]

Thanks for the suggestion. It just stinks because we dont have the cash to just "do it all" regarding tests and such, especially with the holiday season.

My worst fear is that this guy is already past the possible saving point and it will be just throwing money at something that wont help. But we have to try at this point, especially if it is antibiotics to help. Hopefully it wont be that expensive.

 

[Redstrike]

One of my baby torts (Mandarin) was in terrible health this summer - eyes shut, not moving, not eating, etc. - and I thought I was going to lose him/her for sure. When I put Mandarinin a baby food soak, half the time s/he would float...YIKES!!!. I thought it was a gonner for sure. After 2 weeks of Baytril injections, the tortoise made a full recovery and is still doing great! Mandarin now resides in his/her own enclosure until I can build a very large enclosure for the four of them.

I think the cheapest part of the vet was the Baytril injections, they were no more than a dollar a piece. I'm pretty sure I got 14 injections for $10. When the tort weighs 45g, it doesn't take much of the drug so that may be why the meds were so cheap. I think I spent about $170 total. This included 2 fecal tests ($45, charged only for one), urinalysis ($65), visit fee ($50), and the injections (~$10). Yea, $170 is expensive, but I truly thought this tortoise was gone and it made a complete recovery! If you can swing it, the vet never hurts and they'll work out deals with you if your tight on cash. Can't hurt to call and see their visit fees and/or get a phone opinion.

 

[Yvonne G]

Sometimes mucousy poop is due to flagellates, the microscopic parasites not killed by Panacur.

 

[Baoh]

Sometimes mucousy poop is due to flagellates, the microscopic parasites not killed by Panacur.

Indeed. Also, a wet/sloppy vent is a symptom often associated with a protozoan infection like that.

When I do my preventative routine (1x to 2x yearly without diagnosis) or treat incoming cases (with diagnosis), I often combine fenbendazole with metronidazole. I follow this (and any antibiotic/antibacterial courses, too) with a bit of probiotics in case there is any rebalancing needed (this would be more work to diagnose than to treat, so I do it as a matter of course whether it is necessary or not). The combination, for my animals, has been favorable. I sometimes even notice an uptick in appetite the day after administration of the antihelminthic and antiprotozoal combination. I just make doubly sure to provide plenty of water before, during, and after the treatment period so that metabolism of the medications is not hindered.

Covers several bases and safely as long as people do not overmedicate.

 

[Redstrike]

Sometimes mucousy poop is due to flagellates, the microscopic parasites not killed by Panacur.

Indeed. Also, a wet/sloppy vent is a symptom often associated with a protozoan infection like that.

When I do my preventative routine (1x to 2x yearly without diagnosis) or treat incoming cases (with diagnosis), I often combine fenbendazole with metronidazole. I follow this (and any antibiotic/antibacterial courses, too) with a bit of probiotics in case there is any rebalancing needed (this would be more work to diagnose than to treat, so I do it as a matter of course whether it is necessary or not). The combination, for my animals, has been favorable. I sometimes even notice an uptick in appetite the day after administration of the antihelminthic and antiprotozoal combination. I just make doubly sure to provide plenty of water before, during, and after the treatment period so that metabolism of the medications is not hindered.

Covers several bases and safely as long as people do not overmedicate.

Curious where you get your Metronidazole from? I've seen stuff for fish tanks, but was always apprehensive due to differences in application (dissolving in water for fish vs. oral administration for torts). I've found Fenbendazole for dogs and I'm comfortable reducing the concentration down to the recommended 25-50 g/kg for tortoises, but I'd be greatful for any leads on where to get lower starting concentrations of Fenbendazole too.

Any guidance would be appreciated!

 

[Baoh]

Sometimes mucousy poop is due to flagellates, the microscopic parasites not killed by Panacur.

Indeed. Also, a wet/sloppy vent is a symptom often associated with a protozoan infection like that.

When I do my preventative routine (1x to 2x yearly without diagnosis) or treat incoming cases (with diagnosis), I often combine fenbendazole with metronidazole. I follow this (and any antibiotic/antibacterial courses, too) with a bit of probiotics in case there is any rebalancing needed (this would be more work to diagnose than to treat, so I do it as a matter of course whether it is necessary or not). The combination, for my animals, has been favorable. I sometimes even notice an uptick in appetite the day after administration of the antihelminthic and antiprotozoal combination. I just make doubly sure to provide plenty of water before, during, and after the treatment period so that metabolism of the medications is not hindered.

Covers several bases and safely as long as people do not overmedicate.

Curious where you get your Metronidazole from? I've seen stuff for fish tanks, but was always apprehensive due to differences in application (dissolving in water for fish vs. oral administration for torts). I've found Fenbendazole for dogs and I'm comfortable reducing the concentration down to the recommended 25-50 g/kg for tortoises, but I'd be greatful for any leads on where to get lower starting concentrations of Fenbendazole too.

Any guidance would be appreciated!

I use the fine grains meant for high-end fish (or low-end fish...the fish care little for class), since it is both easy to meter and cost-effective. For large animals, I can add the mass to a piece of fruit. I typically make a banana "cupcake" by cutting out a cross-section of banana, poking a pocket into the center with my pinky, adding the metronidazole, and "icing" it with Panacur paste. For small animals, I make a slurry with water and baby food and let them drink it. I could also make a high-concentration solution for delivery via oral syringe, which would be tighter in terms of dosage control, but I do not like stressing my animals that way unless I have to.

---

I have also bought powdered fenbendazole intended for dogs and such, but have yet to use it. I figured it will be easier to manage in the slurries I make compared to the paste.

 

[mightymizz]

Went to vet today. Ended up getting some metronidazole that should be consumed orally. Unfortunately this tort is not eating right now so we had to pry open his mouth and try to get some in it. This was stressful for us and the tort (obviously).

Dose given to us for a 54g tort was .02ml every other day for 10 days.

Really hope he starts eating on his own so we dont have to force feed it.

 

[Redstrike]

Went to vet today. Ended up getting some metronidazole that should be consumed orally. Unfortunately this tort is not eating right now so we had to pry open his mouth and try to get some in it. This was stressful for us and the tort (obviously).

Dose given to us for a 54g tort was .02ml every other day for 10 days.

Really hope he starts eating on his own so we dont have to force feed it.

Best of luck to you and your tort, keep us posted!

 

[mightymizz]

Any ideas on how to better put the metronidazole into my tort's mouth. They gave us individual doses in 1ml dosing syringes, but even the tip of that smaller syringe is fairly large to try and get .02ml of medicine into a small baby's mouth.

Thanks, He is still alive today.