I Think my tortoise is underweight.

[snappy the redfoot]

My redfoot tortoise has been with me for some time now, around 7-8 years. She's quite big and 9inches long and still growing. However, while I was reading some care sheets(not ones previously provided to me here), it said they should grow up to 14inches long. Which is fine. But it said at 10 years old that should way 20-30 pounds. My tortoise, though being 8-10 years of age is only 5 pounds. Is it true that she should be 4 times heavier?

Here's the link to the care sheet: https://www.everythingreptiles.com/red-footed-tortoise/

 

[ZenHerper]

Each individual tortoise is just that...an individual. Redfoots have unique dietary needs that must be balanced by a very active exercise routine.

It would be most helpful for us to see clear photos of your pet from a couple of angles, and one of the main side of your enclosure. And give us all the details of the feeding routine: what foods, how much, how often.

 

[TaylorTortoise]

Can we see pictures please?

 

[snappy the redfoot]

Can we see pictures please?

I can't get one at the moment, however, there are photos of her in another thread.

Here the link to the thread with photos:https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...rtoise-but-she-has-some-health-issues.189019/

do note that she has/had MBD but it is being worked on with more calcium and UVB.

 

[ZenHerper]

@Toddrickfl1 @ZEROPILOT

The nutritional/developmental issues to date will certainly cause some delay - when the bones are weak (and even breaking), a tortoise cannot exercise their muscles properly. Low muscle mass = low net body weight.

You have not said what exactly her feeding routine is. Redfoots need a variety of all sorts of foods, and rotational feeding is the best way to provide a healthful variety over the course of a week.

Redfoots are omnivores (eat-it-all) animals. They do crave meat proteins. Offer her half a boiled egg (with the shell left on) 2-3 times a week.

Redfoots also eat fruit...unusual for tortoises, but this species can (and needs to) manage the sugars. Papaya, mango, banana, tomato. All very nutritious. Offer some pieces of fruit with a meal of nutrient-dense greens every day.

 

[snappy the redfoot]

@Toddrickfl1 @ZEROPILOT

The nutritional/developmental issues to date will certainly cause some delay - when the bones are weak (and even breaking), a tortoise cannot exercise their muscles properly. Low muscle mass = low net body weight.

You have not said what exactly her feeding routine is. Redfoots need a variety of all sorts of foods, and rotational feeding is the best way to provide a healthful variety over the course of a week.

Redfoots are omnivores (eat-it-all) animals. They do crave meat proteins. Offer her half a boiled egg (with the shell left on) 2-3 times a week.

Redfoots also eat fruit...unusual for tortoises, but this species can (and needs to) manage the sugars. Papaya, mango, banana, tomato. All very nutritious. Offer some pieces of fruit with a meal of nutrient-dense greens every day.

I feed her usually 5 days leafy greens such as dandelion and collard greens, and the rest of the week is fruit such as banana/strawberry. I do also add supplements to her diet. Should i add the egg with the fruit, and will the shell of the egg left on harm her?

Also, she does exercise a good bit, and likes walking around, and is quite bright when she's not hiding or sleeping.

 

[ZenHerper]

I feed her usually 5 days leafy greens such as dandelion and collard greens, and the rest of the week is fruit such as banana/strawberry. I do also add supplements to her diet. Should i add the egg with the fruit?

Also, she does exercise a good bit, and likes walking around, and is quite bright when she's not hiding or sleeping.

I'd just add the egg to her regular ration, yes.

The activity she is doing is not building as much muscle as it would if her bones were healthy. It is fine for her to do what activity she wants, but a Redfoot should stomp about up high on its toes in a very athletic swagger. From your other photos it is hard to see what her muscle condition in her legs and neck/shoulders is. Some clear pics of her standing and walking would help someone make a more specific assessment. Her back is concerning...if her body is concentrating on Stabilizing and Healing, it is not concentrating on Growing. MBD is quite serious (and deadly if not corrected in time), and 100% interferes with other indicators of vitality (like general body weight).

Each individual vegetable and fruit contains a unique complement of nutrients and calories. Make sure to give a very wide variety in a rotation so that her body can absorb and incorporate what it needs. We are most healthy when we eat a rotating variety, and so are other species. When you are in the produce section, look for bright, deep colors.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Your Redfoot could be stunted for a few reasons including diet. Enclosure size and just plain genetics.
I posted a few years back about a horribly mistreated RF that I rescued who was 4 years old and was still the size of a 4 month old.
He survived but will always be very small. And might even be a dwarf mutation.
The thing is. Don't worry about size so much. Just overall health.
Provide lots of different foods. Mix it up. Take full advantage of the hundreds of things your RF can eat.
Provide the largest enclosure that you are able to and keep it humid.
He/she can still live a nice, long life just the same.

 

[snappy the redfoot]

I see, let me try to get a video of her and walking

 

[snappy the redfoot]

I got the video! It took me awhile to get it because I had to wait for the video to be processed.

Also, she ate her first egg and loved it. It was only half an egg with some of the shell left on.

 

[ZenHerper]

What a sweetie!

Yeah, she's very attentive to her surroundings, and has an eye on that leaf she goes for at the end. Good targeting.

Her legs are a bit thin. She seems to have a bit of trouble in the back...sometimes that can be the grade/slope of what they walk on. If the ground is level, she may have some deficit with lifting the back feet. She may be a skosh dehydrated (daily warm water soak, humid-substrate hide for burrowing both very helpful).

I think a lot can be corrected with diet improvements.

She can crunch up the entire half an egg shell...great source of calcium and other balancing minerals needed to get her bones and muscles into healthy condition. So do the second half egg on Saturday morning. Then three half portions next week. Then four a week going forward.

Dark greens are likewise good sources of all sorts of minerals...I'd recommend doing some greens every day. Instead of all-fruit days, make her a daily portion that provides the entire range of nutrients together so that they can be absorbed as needed.

There is a Redfoot Love thread - lots of great folks and tanks:

Lets see some Redfoots!

Lets see some Redfoots/Yellowfoots! Let's use this thread to show off our shelled family members. Feel free to add any Pics, Videos, or stories you have of your Redfoot or Yellowfoot tortoises. This here's Murphy my RF he's about 6 inches and I've had him since January.

www.tortoiseforum.org

Keep us updated!

 

[snappy the redfoot]

What a sweetie!

Yeah, she's very attentive to her surroundings, and has an eye on that leaf she goes for at the end. Good targeting.

Her legs are a bit thin. She seems to have a bit of trouble in the back...sometimes that can be the grade/slope of what they walk on. If the ground is level, she may have some deficit with lifting the back feet. She may be a skosh dehydrated (daily warm water soak, humid-substrate hide for burrowing both very helpful).

I think a lot can be corrected with diet improvements.

She can crunch up the entire half an egg shell...great source of calcium and other balancing minerals needed to get her bones and muscles into healthy condition. So do the second half egg on Saturday morning. Then three half portions next week. Then four a week going forward.

Dark greens are likewise good sources of all sorts of minerals...I'd recommend doing some greens every day. Instead of all-fruit days, make her a daily portion that provides the entire range of nutrients together so that they can be absorbed as needed.

There is a Redfoot Love thread - lots of great folks and tanks:

Lets see some Redfoots!

Lets see some Redfoots/Yellowfoots! Let's use this thread to show off our shelled family members. Feel free to add any Pics, Videos, or stories you have of your Redfoot or Yellowfoot tortoises. This here's Murphy my RF he's about 6 inches and I've had him since January.

www.tortoiseforum.org

Keep us updated!

Ill keep you up to date, a few questions though.

1. What would this daily portion consist of?
2. How long would this "daily soak" be? i already give her a soak a week.

 

[snappy the redfoot]

also, if her legs are thin how do i make sure they properly grow and become healthy? I get that MBD may have halted some growth but is there anything i can do?

 

[ZenHerper]

Ill keep you up to date, a few questions though.

1. What would this daily portion consist of?
2. How long would this "daily soak" be? i already give her a soak a week.

2. Twenty minutes is fine...although, many Redfoots like to swim in shallow water. If you have a large enough pan you might see how she feels about more space to splash around in. Not deep water - only up to the seam of her top and bottom shells. Her enclosure has enough room for a shallow water feature if she likes it.

3. Moving through water can encourage bone and muscle growth as long as she has the proper proteins and other nutrients.

1. So you know about how much she can eat in a meal...that's the total portion.

Then you want to choose every day:
*2-3 different dark greens (buy mature leafy greens - the bags of baby greens are easy to grab, but the immature leaves are less healthful and have little fiber) Collard greens, curly endive, dandelion, etc. - all can be rinsed, wrapped in paper towels, then stacked in the fridge.
*1-2 brightly colored fruits (orange, red, blue, yellow)
*a protein -- this you are building up slowly so that her kidneys can adjust (why a daily soak is helpful)
*a water-softened ZooMed tortoise food pellet ( "Grassland" or "Forest") as a nice round-out supplement, and so she gets used to a prepared food in case of emergency (weather, you break a leg, get the flu, etc.).

 

[snappy the redfoot]

I have been feeding her this for two days now, is this good?

 

[ZenHerper]

That's fantastic!

As you build up your fridge stock, you will find it easier to get a richer variety on every plate. She might really like a few blueberries with the watermelon, for ex..

If she is tall enough to manage the dish, that's fine. Most torts prefer something flatter...the terra cotta saucer from a planter, for instance, lets them reach easier and is a bit textured so their beak stays a bit smoother. Or a cement paving stone pushed halfway into the substrate - then they just walk forward up to their food pile. Keeps the beak and nails conditioned.

 

[snappy the redfoot]

That's fantastic!

As you build up your fridge stock, you will find it easier to get a richer variety on every plate. She might really like a few blueberries with the watermelon, for ex..

If she is tall enough to manage the dish, that's fine. Most torts prefer something flatter...the terra cotta saucer from a planter, for instance, lets them reach easier and is a bit textured so their beak stays a bit smoother. Or a cement paving stone pushed halfway into the substrate - then they just walk forward up to their food pile. Keeps the beak and nails conditioned.

The current plate I’ve been using is fairly good as it has texturing and is big enough to hold her food. I have extra corner food bowls that I believe are also a big textured but mostly flat.

I’ve also given her a humid hide, it’s enclosed for the most part and has her water dish in it.

 

[snappy the redfoot]

Ive run into an issue.

Snappy eats a lot usually, which is normal because she's an opportunistic eater. But recently after giving her new daily meal, she has stopped eating everything in the bowl, is this normal and should I wait for her to get accustomed, or should I get it checked out?

 

[ZenHerper]

Is everything else as usual? (her activities, attentiveness, interest in your approach, etc.)

Is she leaving something in particular in her dish?

Does she come back later for a snack (do you leave the leftovers for her)?

It's not uncommon for a tort to pig out when they get new food items that their body has been craving, and then get to a stasis point when they approach a nutritional balance point and also consciously realize those foods will be available tomorrow.

I'm in favor of providing a bit more than you think they might eat so that you don't underfeed: it is not possible for an active tort to become overweight on a balanced diet, but they can suffer from not enough. You can let her pick at the leftovers through the day (or offer them at lunchtime if you have to remove and protect the plate from flies).

 

[snappy the redfoot]

Is everything else as usual? (her activities, attentiveness, interest in your approach, etc.)

Is she leaving something in particular in her dish?

Does she come back later for a snack (do you leave the leftovers for her)?

It's not uncommon for a tort to pig out when they get new food items that their body has been craving, and then get to a stasis point when they approach a nutritional balance point and also consciously realize those foods will be available tomorrow.

I'm in favor of providing a bit more than you think they might eat so that you don't underfeed: it is not possible for an active tort to become overweight on a balanced diet, but they can suffer from not enough. You can let her pick at the leftovers through the day (or offer them at lunchtime if you have to remove and protect the plate from flies).

I Have seen a decline in her activity ever since i moved the location of the CHES(make that CHE since one went out), which took place much before the new diet. Nothing in particular is left behind but egg and a bit of everything else.