My concern is the humidity in my indoor redfoot enclosure. I have an 8ft x 3ft tortoise table. I consider it a constant project and try to update/improve some feature at least annually. I set up a mistking system a couple years ago, which improved humidity, but it was still fluctuating a lot and it seemed the mistking needed to run often. I worried about the tort getting sprayed so often and being too wet too often. I eventually added a hygrometer and thermometer and then this August, while the tortoises could still be outside, I cleaned out everything indoors. I laid a pond liner in the bottom to resolve the leaking issues I was having. I used a living substrate model - lava rock, topsoil/sand mix and cypress mulch on top. I also added earthworms and isopods I purchased. I built a top so lights and everything were enclosed and humidity was contained. Humidity and temp were staying on point. About 4 weeks ago I came home to a flood. The mistking ran excessively for the entire day it seemed. The water level was enough for it to get over the pond liner and leak out worse than ever before. Fortunately the substrate was deep enough that there weren't puddles on the surface. I think the moisture was escaping through a gap in the wood between the top and bottom that had developed, the wood warped. To remedy this I dug out some substrate so it was lower then the pond liner all around, used weatherstripping to fill any gaps, and added another layer of plastic. Needless to say, this worked so well that I haven't refilled the mistking since (it hasn't even been turned on since the flood) and it maintains 80-90 % humidity, it fluctuates with light/heat schedule. The temp & humidity is exactly where it should be. Except now I'm starting to see mold/mildew. First their small hibiscus died and leaves got covered in white mildew and I just noticed small black spots on the inside walls. I left the doors open briefly to air it out. But I'm just not sure where to go from here. It's constructed with wood and i used a pet safe waterproofing epoxy on all interior wood. I have 2 redfoot tortoises- a 5-6 year old cherryhead I've had since he was tiny and a second I rescued from a wildlife rehab in May. When the rehab took her in, a month or so before I got her, they got no info from her owners. I have no idea how old and I'm not 100% sure if she's a cherryhead or not. The new tortoise climbs on, moves, and/or eats everything, so keeping plants has been tough with her. That's another problem, but that's why there are so few plants in these pics. There's one mercury vapor bulb, an infrared ceramic heat emitter that's hooked up to the thermostat, and the remaining fixtures have low watt plant bulbs. I've finally run out of ideas on how to fix this. I appreciate any help!
Humidity HELP!
- Thread starter Harmonious
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Hi there.
I think the first thing to do, is post some photos of your enclosure.
Also some photos of your torts to verify if they are northerns or cherries. Head shots and plastrons should do it.
The smaller tort is the one I've raised.
Ok , your going to have to let me get to my computer to see the photos better. Your larger one is a female northern and your smaller one is a male cherryhead. Do you know what those white areas are on the male cherryheads plastron?
I don't. The larger spot was dry and a little flaky when I scratched at it. I'll do a warm soak & gentle toothbrush scrub to explore.
Anyfoot is correct. Female northern, second is a male cherryhead....with shell fungus on his plastron. Scrub clean with SOFT toothbrush and Listerine. Then coat with a good anti fungal cream for the embarrassing issues like jock itch, foot fungus or the like.
How long should I apply the anti-fungal cream and should I move him and/or wrap the area during treatment to keep the cream on?
Apply daily, if possible keep him on his own on newspaper or something dry for a week.
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I'll share with you what I do and I suggest that You try:
I have orchid bark...About 2-3 inches at the very bottom of my enclosure. On top of that is a mixture of potting soil and compost.
I pour some water into the corners and the bark/mulch absorbs it and slowly puts out humidity as it evaporates, leaving the upper soil level dry.
I would not use and do not use a "mister", but something much simpler and foolproof: I use an aquarium air stone. An airline and a small aquarium air pump with the stone placed into a tall tube of water partially burried into the substrate for stability. So the torts don"t knock it over. Eventually I was able to seal off my enclosure and got rid of that also, but in your situation, I'd try it. It doesn't make anything wet, but constantly makes bubbles and puts out humidity.
You have your porous and water holding media on top. That is not ideal and you may also have lighting overkill. Too much heat lighting will also sap your humidity.
Also, there is no need to buy anything fancy. I've been advocating the various "Dollar Store" athletes foot cream for shell fungus. It is the same active ingredient.
I have orchid bark...About 2-3 inches at the very bottom of my enclosure. On top of that is a mixture of potting soil and compost.
I pour some water into the corners and the bark/mulch absorbs it and slowly puts out humidity as it evaporates, leaving the upper soil level dry.
I would not use and do not use a "mister", but something much simpler and foolproof: I use an aquarium air stone. An airline and a small aquarium air pump with the stone placed into a tall tube of water partially burried into the substrate for stability. So the torts don"t knock it over. Eventually I was able to seal off my enclosure and got rid of that also, but in your situation, I'd try it. It doesn't make anything wet, but constantly makes bubbles and puts out humidity.
You have your porous and water holding media on top. That is not ideal and you may also have lighting overkill. Too much heat lighting will also sap your humidity.
Also, there is no need to buy anything fancy. I've been advocating the various "Dollar Store" athletes foot cream for shell fungus. It is the same active ingredient.
Hi again.
This pains me to say, but I think you are going to have to take everything out of that enclosure, then paint the wooden parts of the enclosure with a waterproof paint. The mould is growing in the ply wood. It needs some protection. Its going to be a right royal pain in the butt, but it will be worth it.
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+1
The mold is dangerous and grows quickly.
Otherwise you'll end up having to throw away the whole thing. But this won't be an issue if you decide to also swap out the substrate. you could do it all at once.
+2
That white shell fungus appears when tortoises sit on bedding that has become saturated with urine. The moist conditions cause the fungus to really flourish while the urine also erodes the scutes. Even tortoises kept outdoors on plain sand will develope this issue if their hide box (or whatever shelter they frequent) isn't either, moved around often, or the bedding inside of it isn't replaced periodically.
The good news for you is that you can correct the problem as recommended above.
As Zeropilot mentioned, pretty much all of the popular anti-fungal creams have the same one or two active ingredients so spending rude bucks for the big name brands isn't necessary. Keep up the applications daily until the white crud is gone.
Just be careful when feeding so the treated tortoise doesn't smear the stuff all over their food.
Ahh, terrible news after all the work I did a couple months ago and now it's too cold for them outside. I coated the inside of the top section with polyurethane, but not the outside. Fortunately the table itself (the stained part) I did waterproof with a pet safe waterproof epoxy a year or so ago. Is it safe to paint over the mold or do I need to build a new top? It wasn't clear, do I need to toss the substrate? It's about 7 inches deep, maybe just the top few inches? Any thoughts on my original humidity question? Or I suppose the habitat overall since I've got to renovate anyways?
I actually think what you have done in principle is good, I can tell you have put a lot of thought into it. You need red and blue light spectrum for your plants to grow. Blue to grow and red to flower/fruit. Also IMO you will not get plants to grow in a 100% closed system. All mine died, and slowly but surely im reading others having the same problem. They need oxygen. If it was me I would make another top half so you can just replace when it's finished. Paint everything that is wood.
Mix up all your substrate and put some bark on one half of the enclosure. This will give a drier area aswell as a moist area. Also ditch the mister. This is what has created your problem. It's soaked everything wet through creating a perfect environment for mould growth.(that and no air flow)
I have my juveniles in a closed system like yours and I'm following my experiment through, I won't be next time around.
In your enclosure I would have about 2ft at one end open at the top. In this end grow tall plants, make the plants in this 2x3ft area complete the closed chamber effect. Acting like a canopy. This will allow air flow to the entire enclosure too.
Dont take your mist system out though. You may decide you can get it to come on once a week to top up humidy. If you can go back to having plants in there they will act as drainage for you.
Hope that made sense.
Keep us posted please.
Anyfoot, in your experimentation have you looked at planting directly in substrate vs. keeping in pots? Thanks for the advice. I'll be starting the new top this weekend and will update.
Yeah, I tried both. Some benefits for a closed chamber are control of heat and humidity and its more economical on cost because heat loss is lower.
However the fact I couldn't get plants to grow means something is missing in there. They did grow for so long(maybe 4wks) then they would start to perish. I didn't have any drainage and humidity is 85% to 99%. I'm convinced it was lack of oxygen.
I eradicated, over wet and not enough light.
So if you did what you've already done again with the top half of your enclosure but just make it so you can open the top at the end lets say 2ft. Heavily plant that area to sort of seal the open area with foliage, sort of a hybrid between a closed and open system.
If it doesn't work you can close it back off.
If it does work theres nothing to stop you growing things higher up in your enclosure that they can't eat until you are ready to feed, aswell as in the substrate.
Making the maths simple here to explain my train of thought.
Closed system costs $10 to run.
Hybrid system costs $15 to run.
If you can grow $5 of food in hybrid system that eliminates the economy side of things.
Just a very very basic drawing of what I want to try out. Yes you will loose heat and humidity, but if its to the cost of being able to grow edible plants!!!!! Dont forget plants in themselves help with higher humidity.
That lip could be brought right down to 2" above your torts height.
Just thoughts.
I see what you're saying and I'll definitely try it. I know a hibiscus would be good as both a taller and edible plant. Did you have any tall and edible or food producing plants in mind? With the top open I could probably accommodate maybe as tall as 5-6 feet. I think I will hang the blue & red plant lights from the ceiling focused on the tall plant end. It is exciting planning for renovations! but, the execution always takes twice as long as I think it will...
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I have a dwarf black mulberry tree and it grew to about 6 feet.
The leaves and fruit are food.
I have much to learn when it comes to plant types. Be good if you could get dandilions to grow somewhere in there too, they love them and are very good food source. Even if you grew them in hanging baskets. It's all about experimenting. Just remember the bigger the plant the bigger and more damaging the roots can get, so don't go tooooo big. Hibiscus, spider plants, opuntia and weeds.
That what I drew is effectively a semi enclosed system with a garden attached at one end. You could even make half of it the garden area. Just throwing ideas in the pot.
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