Huge contradictions

[Masin]

Hey there,
I'm like most everyone in the confused department in regards to some food items for sulcatas. There is conflict at every turn!
Right now our girl is getting organic spring mix, orchard & alfalfa hay and mazuri with a pellet of grassland tort food and a sprinkle of salad topper (occasionally.) If I can get it in organic she'll get broccoli raab, endive, escarole and a pinch of dandelion greens, celery leaves, collards. She also gets squash leaves and hibiscus leaves, blueberry leaves and grasslan
Well the concussion is in some friends feed theirs things on the no list, like squash, tomatos, strawberries to name a few. These folks that do this are veterinarians at both the clinic and the vet schools.
I dunno which is right! Do we only feed organic? No fruit ever? Sometimes?

Like I've said a thousand times now, this tortsie has caused me to lose more sleep than being a mom to a daughter has! (she's only 7 so I have plenty of sleepless years ahead I'm sure!!)

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

The majority of the diet should ideally be greens, grasses and hay. Most babies don't eat much hay, so that leaves greens (mustards, collards, turnip greens, Spring Mix, romaine, etc.) and grasses.

VERY little fruits and other vegetables. Their digestive systems are not equipped for large amounts of that stuff. They're like cows with shells; they graze and munch and graze and munch, constantly processing grass and greens.

Now...some keepers claim to have great success feeding their sulcatas nothing but Mazuri chow. I think the key is proper husbandry, and their constitution can handle a little deviation. The Mazuri tortoise chow and ZooMed grassland tortoise diet are both very good diets and nearly complete in their own right. However, most of us feel variety is the spice of life, and only offer it as a supplement to the greens.

 

[mctlong]

I agree with StudentoftheReptile - Variety, variety, variety.
A little fruit every now and then is okay, as long as they are getting a hefty serving of the good stuff like grasses and weeds.

This is what I feed mine:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Sulcata-Diet-Sheet#axzz23IyaN5Oy

 

[Tom]

What you are feeding sounds great. I would like to see more weeds and leaves and less grocery store stuff though. While this may be my preference, you should be able to raise a very healthy tortoise with what you are doing.

For the other people: I don't ever bother with "organic" or not. If its fit for human consumption, it's fit for tortoise consumption too. Squash family plants are fine once in a while, mixed in with other foods. Tomato, strawberries and other fruit, I would skip entirely for a small one. Fruit is not needed. Too much can be bad. A little once in a while should not kill them, but I prefer to feed things that are good for them, vs. things that aren't good for them, but really shouldn't harm them in small quantities. My adults might see one or two strawberries a year, if I happen to have some extras. One strawberry or a couple of grapes on top of a huge pile of grass for an 80 pound tortoise is totally different than several mouthfuls of nothing but fruit for a baby.

There are all sorts of opinions out there, and those opinions are based on all sorts of things. Here's a little test: Ask those vets and vet school people what causes pyramiding. Then come back and tell us what they say. I think YOU know the answer from being around us, but this might demonstrate the sort of misinformation that floats around out in the world.

 

[Masin]

What you are feeding sounds great. I would like to see more weeds and leaves and less grocery store stuff though. While this may be my preference, you should be able to raise a very healthy tortoise with what you are doing.

For the other people: I don't ever bother with "organic" or not. If its fit for human consumption, it's fit for tortoise consumption too. Squash family plants are fine once in a while, mixed in with other foods. Tomato, strawberries and other fruit, I would skip entirely for a small one. Fruit is not needed. Too much can be bad. A little once in a while should not kill them, but I prefer to feed things that are good for them, vs. things that aren't good for them, but really shouldn't harm them in small quantities. My adults might see one or two strawberries a year, if I happen to have some extras. One strawberry or a couple of grapes on top of a huge pile of grass for an 80 pound tortoise is totally different than several mouthfuls of nothing but fruit for a baby.

There are all sorts of opinions out there, and those opinions are based on all sorts of things. Here's a little test: Ask those vets and vet school people what causes pyramiding. Then come back and tell us what they say. I think YOU know the answer from being around us, but this might demonstrate the sort of misinformation that floats around out in the world.

Agreed, I've been growing the grazing tortoise seeds with great success, of course Echo celebrates said success by mowing them down quickly
I've become that person that scolds the vet when she tries to suggest I give Echo squash etc. I don't have any shame.
She was eating a whole mix of this stuff at the pet store and had watery stool. I notice another tortoise wander the store eating the same and a whole slice of watermelon ...he also looked dehydrated/super skinny to me. I have pics of him.



I think I worry mostly about the organic not organic stuff, we know organic is best for everyone, but if I can't get other greens in organic should I pass em up?

 

[tortadise]

Dont forget about succulents. Cactus is a very great source of minerals and beneficial food for them.

Fruit and pads.

 

[Tom]

My wife has studied the whole "organic" thing quite a lot and found that often it is a bunch of hogwash. My experiences with it back up her observations. So I don't agree that "we" all know organic is best. It is my opinion that there is a whole lotta "false advertising" associated with it. Basically it is a marketing gimmick. My wife explains the whole "organic" food thing the way I explain pyramiding and sulcata care...

Some vets NEED scolding. You go right ahead. Just be sure to also compliment when they do a good job.

Your observations are great. The wrong diet does affect their poops and their health. A tortoise that filled up on watermelon did not fill up on the healthy food it should have. Also fruit messes with the proper gut flora and fauna. Grass and plant cellulose is really not very digestible and animals who eat that stuff are reliant upon those special intestinal microbes to get the job done. Large quantities and or frequent feedings of the wrong stuff can severely damage these intestinal good guy colonies. Which can lead to watery stools, undigested food and a skinny unhealthy tortoise.

.... and finally.... growing your own tortoise food is just the best thing ever, isn't it. I wish I had been doing more of it for the last 20 years. My tortoises eat better now than they ever have. Which reminds me that I have to go tend to and harvest the crops now....