Horsfield Won’t Eat but Very Active

[mchambers58w]

I have two and have had them 2 years. Both healthy and checked by the vets.

They have a large open top enclosure, each with correct bulbs that I change every 6 months and I’ve not had any issues with the tortoises so far.

I went on holiday and my sister looked after them and they were both fine and active and eating.

I’ve been back three weeks and they’re back home but only one is eating. One is it’s usual active self but won’t eat, even its favourite food.

I bathe them every 2 days and have been putting Reptoboost in too to try and encourage.

I’d understand if he was lethargic but he’s not! He’s charging around and going around the enclosure to regulate temperature but just won’t touch his food! I’ve tried swapping them from top to bottom bunk. The temperature is 30-40 under the lamp as they both have thermometers.

They’re both around 3-4 years old.

Can anyone suggest anything to help?

 

[Tom]

I have two and have had them 2 years. Both healthy and checked by the vets.

They have a large open top enclosure, each with correct bulbs that I change every 6 months and I’ve not had any issues with the tortoises so far.

I went on holiday and my sister looked after them and they were both fine and active and eating.

I’ve been back three weeks and they’re back home but only one is eating. One is it’s usual active self but won’t eat, even its favourite food.

I bathe them every 2 days and have been putting Reptoboost in too to try and encourage.

I’d understand if he was lethargic but he’s not! He’s charging around and going around the enclosure to regulate temperature but just won’t touch his food! I’ve tried swapping them from top to bottom bunk. The temperature is 30-40 under the lamp as they both have thermometers.

They’re both around 3-4 years old.

Can anyone suggest anything to help?

I'll point out the problems I see, and then leave you the correct care info.
1. Wrong bulbs. MVBs are not reliable. You need at least three bulbs and sometimes four depending on room temp. This is all explained in the heating and lighting breakdown in the thread I will leave.
2. What substrate is that? Is it sold and sand?
3. That water bowl is not suitable. The side of it is too tall. Were you soaking every two days before the problem started? Long term dehydration could be a contributing factor.
4. Not related to your problem, but those clamps can't be trusted. Hang the basking light from directly over head.
5. Those enclosures are far too small. Tortoises need large enclosure with plenty of room to motor about to keep things moving in their GI tract. Much like a horse in this respect.
6. What is the over night low temp there? Did the home heating strategy alter while you were on holiday? Is it the lower one that is off food?
7. What are you feeding them?

Please give this a read through at least twice. There is a care sheet at the bottom for temperate species:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[mchambers58w]

I'll point out the problems I see, and then leave you the correct care info.
1. Wrong bulbs. MVBs are not reliable. You need at least three bulbs and sometimes four depending on room temp. This is all explained in the heating and lighting breakdown in the thread I will leave.
2. What substrate is that? Is it sold and sand?
3. That water bowl is not suitable. The side of it is too tall. Were you soaking every two days before the problem started? Long term dehydration could be a contributing factor.
4. Not related to your problem, but those clamps can't be trusted. Hang the basking light from directly over head.
5. Those enclosures are far too small. Tortoises need large enclosure with plenty of room to motor about to keep things moving in their GI tract. Much like a horse in this respect.
6. What is the over night low temp there? Did the home heating strategy alter while you were on holiday? Is it the lower one that is off food?
7. What are you feeding them?

Please give this a read through at least twice. There is a care sheet at the bottom for temperate species:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Hi Tom

Thank you!

The substrate is loam which I make from play sand and soil.

Please ignore the water bowl. I have a ramp up to it, which has been washed. They don’t really use it but I keep it in there for humidity and bath them every 2 days always.

I have a larger area where they can both wander around in and I exercise them in there each day. I’ve always done that and not had any issues so far. In the summer time, they have an area outside.

The low temp is about 15 at night time when the lamp goes off. The enclosure has moved about 3 feet whilst we are having some work done and I’ve had to have access to the cupboard they’re in front of but otherwise in the same room just a few feet away.

The other tortoise which is the shy one is behaving normally and is usually the one that is a bit fussy.

I feed them a mix of things that I have a list of from Tortoise Table. It’s much more varied in the summer as I grow a lot outside. In the winter, they have dried grass pellets, salad leaves that I can buy (Florette), dandelions etc. I also put calcium and Nutrobol on their food.

Thank you again

 

[Ink]

Are your tortoises in the same enclosure?

 

[Tom]

Hi Tom

Thank you!

The substrate is loam which I make from play sand and soil.

Please ignore the water bowl. I have a ramp up to it, which has been washed. They don’t really use it but I keep it in there for humidity and bath them every 2 days always.

I have a larger area where they can both wander around in and I exercise them in there each day. I’ve always done that and not had any issues so far. In the summer time, they have an area outside.

The low temp is about 15 at night time when the lamp goes off. The enclosure has moved about 3 feet whilst we are having some work done and I’ve had to have access to the cupboard they’re in front of but otherwise in the same room just a few feet away.

The other tortoise which is the shy one is behaving normally and is usually the one that is a bit fussy.

I feed them a mix of things that I have a list of from Tortoise Table. It’s much more varied in the summer as I grow a lot outside. In the winter, they have dried grass pellets, salad leaves that I can buy (Florette), dandelions etc. I also put calcium and Nutrobol on their food.

Thank you again

Most of this sounds pretty darn good. I'd use a terra cotta saucer sunk onto the substrate for food and water.

Like causes for your issue then would be:
1. Wrong bulb.
2. Wrong substrate. Soil and sand should never be used for tortoise substrate. An X-ray could rule out sand impaction.
3. Low night temps. You might try adding a CHE on a thermostat to bump the night temperature up a bit since you are not trying to brumate them.

 

[mchambers58w]

Most of this sounds pretty darn good. I'd use a terra cotta saucer sunk onto the substrate for food and water.

Like causes for your issue then would be:
1. Wrong bulb.
2. Wrong substrate. Soil and sand should never be used for tortoise substrate. An X-ray could rule out sand impaction.
3. Low night temps. You might try adding a CHE on a thermostat to bump the night temperature up a bit since you are not trying to brumate them.

Thank you Tom. Is there suggestions on substrate in the link you provide? I’m at work so will check tomorrow properly and read through.

Much appreciated

 

[Tom]

Is there suggestions on substrate in the link you provide?

Yes. Orchid bark works best. Coco coir is safe, but it can be messy. If you can't get those, cypress mulch can also work.

 

[mchambers58w]

Are your tortoises in the same enclosure?

Hello. No I keep them separate

 

[mchambers58w]

Most of this sounds pretty darn good. I'd use a terra cotta saucer sunk onto the substrate for food and water.

Like causes for your issue then would be:
1. Wrong bulb.
2. Wrong substrate. Soil and sand should never be used for tortoise substrate. An X-ray could rule out sand impaction.
3. Low night temps. You might try adding a CHE on a thermostat to bump the night temperature up a bit since you are not trying to brumate them.

Most of this sounds pretty darn good. I'd use a terra cotta saucer sunk onto the substrate for food and water.

Like causes for your issue then would be:
1. Wrong bulb.
2. Wrong substrate. Soil and sand should never be used for tortoise substrate. An X-ray could rule out sand impaction.
3. Low night temps. You might try adding a CHE on a thermostat to bump the night temperature up a bit since you are not trying to brumate them.

Hi Tom. I read you're using a Zoo Med Reptisun UVB LED 9w. Is it a larger screw fitting like an E27? Would you mind giving me the dimensions of the entire bulb? I can't find them anywhere! Thank you.

 

[Tom]

Hi Tom. I read you're using a Zoo Med Reptisun UVB LED 9w. Is it a larger screw fitting like an E27? Would you mind giving me the dimensions of the entire bulb? I can't find them anywhere! Thank you.

I'd have to measure to be precise, but it is approximately 9 inches by 1.5 x 1.5, and uses the typical standard screw-in light socket. I found it a bit of a challenge to get horizontal light sockets, but I figured out a couple of different ways to get it done.

 

[mchambers58w]

I'd have to measure to be precise, but it is approximately 9 inches by 1.5 x 1.5, and uses the typical standard screw-in light socket. I found it a bit of a challenge to get horizontal light sockets, but I figured out a couple of different ways to get it done.

Do you find it covers a good area or is it quite specifically directed?

They’re pretty hefty on price here in the UK but that’s ok as long as they do the job.

Pimp my tortoise here in our house! They’re getting a very special house built to TF regulations!

 

[Tom]

Do you find it covers a good area or is it quite specifically directed?

They’re pretty hefty on price here in the UK but that’s ok as long as they do the job.

Pimp my tortoise here in our house! They’re getting a very special house built to TF regulations!

@Markw84 has found evidence that in at least some of these LEDs the UV bandwidth is too narrow. He can explain it better than I can.

Other type of LED UV bulbs have a very narrow beam under them. The ZooMed LED UV uses additional LED bulbs and some other colors to make a brighter more balanced light, and it does cover a much larger area of the floor of the enclosure than other LED types that I have tried.

They are pricey here too, but I wanted to try them. All things considered, I don't think you can beat the Arcadia "Pro T5 Kits" for UV. Great UV, great light, and excellent coverage. I use them on timers for a few hours mid day, and they last for years this way. The ZooMed LEDs would be great for smaller enclosures, or enclosures where excessive heat might be an issue. For most situations, I think the HO tubes are still best.

 

[mchambers58w]

@Markw84 has found evidence that in at least some of these LEDs the UV bandwidth is too narrow. He can explain it better than I can.

Other type of LED UV bulbs have a very narrow beam under them. The ZooMed LED UV uses additional LED bulbs and some other colors to make a brighter more balanced light, and it does cover a much larger area of the floor of the enclosure than other LED types that I have tried.

They are pricey here too, but I wanted to try them. All things considered, I don't think you can beat the Arcadia "Pro T5 Kits" for UV. Great UV, great light, and excellent coverage. I use them on timers for a few hours mid day, and they last for years this way. The ZooMed LEDs would be great for smaller enclosures, or enclosures where excessive heat might be an issue. For most situations, I think the HO tubes are still best.

Thank you for the advice. I’ll stick with the tubes then. I’m just asking because I can’t currently use them in the enclosures I have because I can’t hang them easily! I’ll use the meter to distinguish how far off I am with UVB and then incorporate the tubes into the new ones with urgency should I need to.

 

[mchambers58w]

Just a quick update to help others. Again, huge thanks to @Tom and everyone who replied.

As soon as I raised the night temp with a CHE and changed the substrate to coco coir, everything has improved. Both are more active and the one in question, eating again fine. They are up and down the ramp and clocking their steps up!

I absolutely love the coir and so do they! I’ve added an upside down box at the back of each bunk enclosure, full of coir and they’ve been hunkering down in there at night and digging.

I bought a humidity meter and a UVB meter. Humidity has now raised to around 50%. Was a little more when I had soaked the coir bricks to break them down.

I’ve bought a Pro T5 and added to my Jungle Dawn where they exercise and I grow my plants. I’ve also added weeds that I’ve dug up to their bunk enclosures and it sits nice in the coir and they feel like they’re outside like they are in summer time.

I think I will brumate them next winter.

In March, I am building them a large outdoor enclosure that will be 3x the size of what the have now and they’ll have one each. I’ve read some great threads on here so I now know exactly what they all need for an outdoor home. I’ll also have their indoor areas for when the UK weather is at its worst. It’s all been so helpful.

I’ve also burned myself three times on the new CHE when I’ve been moving the thermometer and humidity meter around getting a reading

 

[Tom]

I’ve also burned myself three times on the new CHE...

HA! Most people learn the first time!

They do run hot, those CHE's.

Glad things are improving and you are learning more about what to do. Questions and conversation are welcome. We are all here to talk tortoises.