Homeana Diversity

2turtletom

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Hello!

I'm a long time Kinixys keeper- I've recently engaged once again with the tortoise community, and I've also recently selectively acquired two Homeana that were in need. They're both wild caught.

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I'm curious if any of you have homeana that look like the animal on the right. The carapace color is very dark, the center of the scutes is quite light, and its Nuchal scute is VERY wide. I'd love to see your photos if animal of your animals resemble this one.

I'm wondering where it might have originated? Both these tortoises are female and are just around 5 inches long.

Thanks!

-Tom
 
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Kapidolo Farms

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Hi Tom, we have exchanged a few thoughts on FB. Glad to see you here out of that rats mess higgly-piggly world of chelonian madness of miss-information. TFO is much better, though maybe not as quick with respondents.

Not to second guess you too much, but maybe that darker one is a weird erosa? It wouldn't be the first time that cross identification has occurred. That patchy white looks like dry 'shell rot' which has happened to some animals I keep and have acquired. I am more familiar with the 'keel' in that fifth vertebral scute being as presented in the one to the left. The one on the right does not seem to have it as well defined. So - young erosa, less well developed keel. They look to be very similar in size. By that size at least the one on the left has that fully developed keel.

Thinking out loud here.
 

2turtletom

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Akron, Ohio
Hi Tom, we have exchanged a few thoughts on FB. Glad to see you here out of that rats mess higgly-piggly world of chelonian madness of miss-information. TFO is much better, though maybe not as quick with respondents.

Not to second guess you too much, but maybe that darker one is a weird erosa? It wouldn't be the first time that cross identification has occurred. That patchy white looks like dry 'shell rot' which has happened to some animals I keep and have acquired. I am more familiar with the 'keel' in that fifth vertebral scute being as presented in the one to the left. The one on the right does not seem to have it as well defined. So - young erosa, less well developed keel. They look to be very similar in size. By that size at least the one on the left has that fully developed keel.

Thinking out loud here.
Excellent- Yes, I totally agree with you regarding TFO.

So I will tell you, I have definitely considered the possibility of this one being a strange erosa, had largely ruled that out, but now I'm reconsidering it based on your thoughts. When I first saw photos of the animal, they were not great, and I just had a feeling that it COULD be an erosa, but when I saw the presence of a nuchal scute in later photos, I ruled it out. I agree with you on the light patchy stuff- it does appear that some environmental factor caused the light spots, based on the the irregularity of the coloration and relative roughness of the scute where the light coloration is present. It appears to have acquired this discoloration as a hatchling, and the subsequent new growth wasn't affected.

The two animals are almost exactly the same size, however, the animal on the right has a much bigger head compared to the homeana on the left. Noticeably so. Here's a view from the side- does that influence your thought on the keel? You're one of the only people I know that have erosa, and quite alot of them, so I think you are uniquely suited to take a look at this animal!

I just managed to snap a photo of the animal with its head out:

39891666_10157540244517656_3323455915666964480_o.jpg


I will also add that the animal on the right does appear to have more of an upturned nose than the one on the right, which I believe is also more erosa-like.

I appreciate your time and thoughts!

I'm also considering sending this right to Tomas Diange of the African Chelonian Institute to get his thoughts.

-Tom
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Yeah, okay, homeana. The 'drop off' in the fifth V scute is more apparent now, the darkness and the angle in the first image made it look less sharp, more rounded, and not so 'drop off' like.

They sure are cool. I wish we could have crossed paths 20 - 30 years ago. Glad to cross paths now.

I recall in the late 1980, there was an importation of a group that confounded folks. things did not square with one or the other. Sean, my boss at the Chaffee Zoo, tried to walk back through the import process to find their origin and see if they may at least a geographic variant or new form, all to no avail.
 

2turtletom

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
324
Location (City and/or State)
Akron, Ohio
Yeah, okay, homeana. The 'drop off' in the fifth V scute is more apparent now, the darkness and the angle in the first image made it look less sharp, more rounded, and not so 'drop off' like.

They sure are cool. I wish we could have crossed paths 20 - 30 years ago. Glad to cross paths now.

I recall in the late 1980, there was an importation of a group that confounded folks. things did not square with one or the other. Sean, my boss at the Chaffee Zoo, tried to walk back through the import process to find their origin and see if they may at least a geographic variant or new form, all to no avail.

Me too Will, me too, good to meet you. That's a very interesting story about the importation that confounded people here. I'm tempted to contact the person that I acquired it from to see if their wholesaler might know the country of origin. I'm tempted to also send this to Tomas Diange of the Chelonian Research Institute. Really, what I'd love to do is just go over and explore the whole Western and central African forests, but ultimately, that just isn't practical for many reasons!

Jeremy T. and David M. have been very helpful as I have ventured back into keeping Homeana. I've always been interested in hingebacks, and recently got back into it- I'm doing my best trying to acquire homeana in situations that I would consider "in serious need". I also have a Nogueyi trio after adding a male in late June, hoping for the best. I recently introduced the females to the males, and he was excited to say the least!

It's possible we interacted in the past... Back in the late 1990's i created a Geocities website on Kinixys which still lives on here: http://www.oocities.org/hiramtom/tortindex.html Unfortunately, I have not access to it. I also created and moderated Yahoo listserve, which the archives are still available here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hingeback/info

-Tom
 
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