Looking around to buy a toroise undecided on breed but looking at Greek, Russian or hermanns's and ive seen the word hibernation come around. I know what it means but can anyone tell me about this and wether the animal does need to hibernate or if it is an option i'm not sure how it works.
Hibernation?
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Brumation (not really hibernation) is optional in tortoises. Not all species and subspecies do brumate, and it can vary with whether the tortoise is captive bred or wild caught. Under the best of circumstances I would not brumate the first year you have a tortoise, but after that it is up to you. There is a lot of debate with this, and I have very little personal experience.
No tortoise has to hibernate. Some cannot hibernate at all. The ones who can don't have to.
If you have good accommodation indoors when the temperatures drop and outside is no longer an option, then you are fine keeping your tort up. Just remember that as they grow, they need more space and that hibernation might end up being a less stressful option for both you and your tort than confining it indoors.
Don't hibernate very small torts.
Only ever hibernate a 100% fit tortoise
The temperature for hibernation should be as stable as possible around 5C (40F) and never exceeding 10C or going below 0C
Check and weigh your tort frequently through hibernation
Two weeks is long enough for a first attempt.
If you have good accommodation indoors when the temperatures drop and outside is no longer an option, then you are fine keeping your tort up. Just remember that as they grow, they need more space and that hibernation might end up being a less stressful option for both you and your tort than confining it indoors.
Don't hibernate very small torts.
Only ever hibernate a 100% fit tortoise
The temperature for hibernation should be as stable as possible around 5C (40F) and never exceeding 10C or going below 0C
Check and weigh your tort frequently through hibernation
Two weeks is long enough for a first attempt.
Not an expert in non hibernators, but Redfoots, Sulcatas ans Aldabras must not.
Testudo can.
Testudo can.
jaizei said:
Actually, that's exactly what it means. Only a handful of tortoise species from temperate Eurasia and North America in the northern hemisphere are capable of surviving long, cold winters by brumating (hibernating). To a lesser extent, some temperate species from southern Africa and South America in the southern hemisphere can do this as well, although their winters are milder. The northern genera Gopherus and Testudo can handle the lowest temperatures and the longest brumation periods. The southern representatives of Chersina, Kinixys, Homopus, Psammobates, Stigmochelys, and Chelonoidis may also be able to tolerate shorter, warmer winters by brumating.
All other tortoises are warm-temperate, sub-tropical, or tropical, and therefore incapable of brumating. In captivity, they have been shown to enter a state of torpor when cooled to abnormally low temperatures. However, those temperatures are not as cold as high-latitude winter temperatures, and these tortoises cannot withstand such cooling periods for long. This is probably because high-latitude species have enzymes that continue to function in the cold, maintaining a very slow metabolism. Low-latitude species also experience a fluctuating metabolic rate, but below a certain point, their metabolism will slow down too much to sustain life.
Temperate tortoises also have other adaptations that have to do with the immune system, fat storage, photoperiod response, and ability of tissue to resist freezing. All of these are needed for brumation, and not found in low-latitude tortoises.
Is there a specific temperature or time period that must be met in order for the state of torpor reptiles enter in response to cooler/cold temperatures to be called brumation? When does this state of torpor become brumation?
GeoTerraTestudo said:
Is there a specific temperature or time period that must be met in order for the state of torpor to be called brumation? The most basic definition of brumation is a state of torpor an ectotherm enters in response to cooler/cold temperatures. So I think the above quote contradicts itself.
Arguably, all cold blooded animals brumate. They have no choice in the matter. Not to say that some may be able to survive conditions more extreme than others, but that isn't the point.
GeoTerraTestudo said:
I think there is a term for this state of torpor they enter in response to cooler/cold temperatures. Brumation. I am unaware of any temperature or duration requirements attached to the term. Is there a specific temperature or time period that must be met in order for the state of torpor to be called brumation?
Arguably, all reptiles brumate when the temperature drops. They have no choice in the matter. Not to say that some may be able to survive conditions more extreme than others, but that isn't the point.
jaizei said:
Brumation is more than just torpor. Brumation is the ability to survive at very low temperatures for prolonged periods. Torpor is just sluggishness.
jaizei said:
I would argue against that definition. As I mentioned in my previous post above, the ability of reptiles to brumate is associated with a whole suite of adaptations for surviving a winter dormancy period (and ditto for mammals that hibernate). Not just any reptile can brumate. Indeed, not even all individuals from brumating species are capable of brumation.
I'll give you a great example. The green or common iguana (Iguana iguana) is a tropical reptile, but it has been established in sub-tropical South Florida for many years. Unusually cold winters in 2008 and 2010 caused "iguana showers," in which many of them fell to the ground from the trees they inhabited. The next day, many revived, but some died. I don't know if necropsies were conducted on these animals, but I would say that they became torpid, and did not brumate. The cold reduced their activity and metabolism, and some of them were able to survive this for one night at a time. However, if the cold had continued or worsened, their tissues would have lysed from ice crystals forming in them, or would have simply been starved for nutrients, and more would have died. Being tropical reptiles, they are not adapted for such cold conditions.
Northern reptiles, such as Gopherus tortoises, and especially Testudo tortoises, have been living in the temperate zone for millions of years, and have evolved adaptations for dealing with cold winters. Their warm-weather counterparts do not share these adaptations, and although they may be able to tolerate some cooling, they cannot truly brumate.
Interestinly enough reds have been known to bromate in winter in the southern ranges now and again. I know Ed 'brumates' his reds
FLINTUS said:
Yes, there are populations of redfoots native to southern South America, including those around and even below the Tropic of Capricorn. Such redfoots are temperate or near-temperate in origin, not tropical. They can probably tolerate low temperatures, and maybe even brumate for short periods ... but again, those populations, races, or as-yet-to-be-named subspecies of redfoots are adapted to such conditions in the wild.
As for tropical redfoots, they have been known to tolerate drops in temperature down to the 50s for a while in captivity, even though in their native range they are only exposed to a range in temperature from the 60s-90s. Of course, temperatures in the 50s are not advisable for tropical redfoots, because even if they survive them, they can become ill if they have to endure them for too long or too often. Also, note that true brumation occurs significantly below those temperatures: around 38-45*F, or even lower. Ideally this should be around 40*F, but reptiles and amphibians adapted to brumation have high concentrations of sugars in their tissues during wintertime, to act as a kind of antifreeze so they can tolerate temperatures a little below 32*F for a while if need be.
I know for a fact that sulcatas can survive temperatures at or near freezing. So can Madagascar hissing roaches. There is a BIG difference between a tropical animal surviving abnormally low (for their species) temperatures, and a temperate animal engaging in true brumation in an annual occurrence to survive a frozen winter.
I think GTT has illustrated and explained this very well.
I think GTT has illustrated and explained this very well.
GeoTerraTestudo said:
Yes as I said above I believe Ed truly bromates his reds. Interesting thought eh?
FLINTUS said:
It is interesting. If his redfoot (could be a cherryhead) is truly of temperate origin, then maybe this is a good practice. Maybe. However, if not, then it would be a bad practice. I would like to hear from Ed himself about this. As for me, I never even tried to "brumate" my redfoot tortoise, because she was almost certainly of tropical origin.
GeoTerraTestudo said:
I don't know if you've ever been on Shelled Warriors but he has talked about it on there. I suspect with his and many other reds it is a bit risky as most are CB now and nobody knows there true origin. He has loads as well so basically I think he saves loads of money at winter. But then he keeps them with his other torts and keeps all his torts with the same care which I do disagree with however it seems to work for him.
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