Herman Tortoise breeding. Help!

Penny Theobald

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Hello everybody,

I’m brand spanking new to the forum and I joined because a lot of useful information seems to track back to this site. :)

I just wondered whether anyone can help me. I adopted a Herman tortoise many years ago and had him through my teenage years. Unfortunately, he died of old age when I was in my early 20’s, and things just didn’t seem quite complete without one. So... last month, almost 20 years on, I finally bought two! All feels complete at last.

My knowledge regarding Hermans is restricted to adult males with no mate available, as that’s what I had. But now I have two that are just over a year old.

They seem to be getting on really well. They eat my weeds out of house and home and are generally very settled. Well... until the bigger of the two started to barge into the slightly smaller one, about two weeks ago. The bigger one (Biscuit), has started to mount the smaller one (Cookie). Now it’s become a little epic. Cookie paces around the terarium a huge amount, and Biscuit follows vigorously. But today it’s moved to a new level! Biscuit mounted Cookie and started thrusting and squeaking with its mouth open like it’s enjoying it a little ‘too much’.

Surely they’re too young for any funny business? Please could someone advise?

Thank you,

Penny
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JoesMum

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Hermann’s, like most species of tortoise, are territorial.

In the wild they are loners. They meet up to mate and move on. They do not live together. They don’t get lonely.

When kept together there is always a dominant animal and the subordinate one gets told physically or mentally to leave.

You are seeing physical behaviour. Even cuddling up to sleep is actually one trying to move the other on.

You must keep these two separately otherwise the stressed subordinate tortoise will become very sick. If you do want to breed from them later, introduce them to mate and then separate again immediately.
 

Tom

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Hello and welcome Penny.

What you are seeing is totally normal and really bad for both of them. Tortoises should never be housed in pairs, and what you are seeing is the reason why. They need to be separated ASAP. Like right now. Each one will need its own enclosure permanently.

Many times groups of immature animals can be kept together, but not pairs ever. As soon as maturity begins to creep up, males have to be separated out. In most cases, with a large well-designed enclosure, a group of one male and several females can be kept together. In really large outdoor enclosures, some keepers are successful at keeping multiple males and females together, but caution must be used and a "Plan B" must be ready to go at all times if war breaks out.

This was typed up for russians, but care for hermanni is similar:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

This one might have some useful tips too:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
 

JoesMum

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Have you read our care guides to bring your self up to speed with how these tortoises should be kept? Understanding and knowledge has changed over the last 20 years.

They're written by species experts working hard to correct the outdated information widely available on the internet and from pet stores and, sadly, from some breeders and vets too.

Beginner Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Hermann’s Care
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/sticky-hermanns-tortoise-care-sheet-updated.101410/
 

Tom

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I’m not happy with the pet shop that said that buying two would be fine.

That is both understandable and justified. As it says in the Beginner mistakes thread, pet shops usually give the wrong advice and sell overpriced and useless or dangerous products for tortoises. I don't know what it will take to get them to learn the correct care info, but most of them don't have a clue.

I would contact them, explain the problem and what you've learned here, and invite them here to learn the same. You will most likely be ignored, ridiculed or insulted, but someone needs to plant that seed. Eventually, when they hear it enough times and lose enough business, most reasonable people will get the idea that they need to correct their ignorance. If no one ever says anything to them, the situation never improves and the next customer gets the same wrong advice that you got. Even worse, the bad info gets spread around as each customer tells all their friends and family the same wrong info that they learned from the "experts" at the pet shop.

You might not have wanted two enclosures to maintain, but most people are pretty happy when all is said and done.
 
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