Help with Tortoise Aggression?

[Chaosye]

I'm not sure if this is the right sub-forum to put this, but I'm just going to go ahead.

I've had a Russian Tortoise for some 3 years now, she's likely 6 or so years old now, and is female. We used to have a male tortoise with her, but he died of a year or so ago from a genetic disease, no matter right now. (The place we got the tortoises from was not very good, but she is healthy now.)

Anyways, today we decided to get another Russian Tortoise (a male), as her companion, from a local PetSmart. The habitat looked like a good size and we brought him home. He, however, is a juvenile and she is an adult, but we didn't figure anything bad would happen.

When we put him in with her, after a couple minutes she started to chase him around the cage, biting at his shell, feet, and arms. He didn't retaliate at all, trying to run away and hide into the corners and logs. She's about 1.5x his size.

No bleeding occured, but he was scratched a good deal and had a small flake of skin peeled off.

For now, we decided to put him in a seperate enclosure, but I'd still like it if they could live together. The enclosure she lives in is about 2.5' by 2.5'
and about 1' high. (We're building a much larger enclosure, 3' by 8')

I've read that this is natural for tortoises to establish dominance, but I'm not sure how long it's meant to continue, or if it's going to keep on happening each time they see each other.

 

[turtletania]

dont know if this is relevant as I have a different species.. but i had it happen to my Indian Stars. I had 2 and added another juvi. The big one (i think male) spent the next 24 hours chasing, nipping, pushing etc. Maybe you could put a see through barrier? and have them get used to seeing each other? would that work?

 

[Yvonne G]

Its the same with all animals. The one in residence has to chase the interloper out of her territory. There should always be a quarantine period when adding new animals, then after that period, the two tortoises can be introduced in a separate habitat where no one has already established ownership.

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Oh, and...

Welcome to the forum!!

 

[Chaosye]

Its the same with all animals. The one in residence has to chase the interloper out of her territory. There should always be a quarantine period when adding new animals, then after that period, the two tortoises can be introduced in a separate habitat where no one has already established ownership.

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Thanks for the introduction and the info, but my newer tortoise is only about 3/4ths of her size, and is apparently very submissive. For the quarantine period, do I have to put both of them in new separate enclosures, or put them both in a new enclosure? And for how long?

Also, since he's very submissive, what would happen when they are both put back in the original cage? I'm figuring she would get dominance, but will she start chasing him again?

Again, thanks.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

You should quarantine him for about 6 months. He then should be introduced slowly. Put them together for a short time in a totally different habitat so your resident female won't feel so aggressive to protect her territory. Then you let them spend some time getting to know each other, then put them both back in their separate habitats. But you should never simply introduce a strange animal to your resident colony or female in this case. Then out on the grass or someplace you would put them together for a short period. I would do that part over about a month.
But your original quarantine period should be 4 to 6 months...

 

[Chaosye]

You should quarantine him for about 6 months. He then should be introduced slowly. Put them together for a short time in a totally different habitat so your resident female won't feel so aggressive to protect her territory. Then you let them spend some time getting to know each other, then put them both back in their separate habitats. But you should never simply introduce a strange animal to your resident colony or female in this case. Then out on the grass or someplace you would put them together for a short period. I would do that part over about a month.
But your original quarantine period should be 4 to 6 months...

So, I've tried to put them together for about 10 minutes together outside in my backyard, we occasionally let her out there, but she immediately started attacking.

So should I keep them separate for a week or more right now, without seeing each other, and then start letting them see each other in the garden, or some other area until they get friendly?

And by the 6 month quarantine period, you mean not seeing each other at all, or just seeing each other on the occasion?

I'm somewhat a newbie to handling tortoises, my brother has been taking the most care of her, and I've learned how to feed and such, but he's going off to college by the end of the summer, leaving me in care of them.

 

[DonaTello's-Mom]

Quarantine them so the new tort doesn't pass any parasites or diseases to your other tort. They should not have any contact with each other. Maggie and Yvonne are VERY experienced tortoise keepers so that being said, I would follow their advice. Good luck!

 

[Laura]

They may never get along. Be prepared to always have two enclosures.. or make a new very large one, so it can be seperated if nec, but also give them plenty of thier own space...
AFTER the Quarantine..

 

[BuffsTorts]

Sometimes we have to think past what our expectations are, and think what their needs are.
I recently bought a small female.
My new female will stay in her own cage in my other room for 6 months.

Post pictures

 

[egyptiandan]

Welcome to the forum

Just to start tortoise don't need company and do very well living on their own. Now that you do have a second tortoise, like Yvonne and Maggie have said you do need to quarantine the new tortoise (which means a seperate set-up and no contact with your existing for a period of time) 4 to 6 months is a good quarantine period for a wild caught tortoise. The quarantine period is to get the new tortoise settled and used to the way you keep tortoises. This is a stressful period for a tortoise and you need to do everything possible to keep those stresses to a minimum (which means no contact with your tortoise till he has settled in). Keeping stress to a minimum will keep him from getting sick. The quarantine period also lets you watch for sicknesses and diseases to show up and for you to get them treated. If you put them together right away, the new tortoise can pass something onto your existing tortoise and your existing tortoise could pass something onto the new tortoise (this would happen because the new tortoise is stressed and their immune system is low and can't fight off infections)

It would also help if we knew for sure what sex your tortoises are. You can post plastron (bottom of the shell) pictures of both of your tortoises and we can sex them for you.

Danny

 

[Chaosye]

Well, I'm already certain that the older tortoise is female and the newer one is male, but now I have a new question.

I've only gotten him yesterday, but he hasn't been eating, as far as I can tell. I had a plant pot as his shelter, but I replaced it with a cut cardboard box. His current substrate is vita-sand, probably going to change it to something like coconut fiber later. He also doesn't move very much, even if picked up. I know he probably won't eat within a day of being brought home, but I just want to know when he's probably going to start eating.

I might just be over-worried, but I just want to know just in case.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

It can take a few days for him to settle in, but I don't like you saying he doesn't move much when you pick him up. That's not right, he should struggle against being held. I would get rid of the sand asap. Sand causes impaction and makes getting the correct temperatures difficult. I like that you created a better hide for him. I would make sure he is well hydrated, offer him food every morning and make sure your husbandry is correct. Make sure that his hot and cool temperatures are right. I'd change the sand like I said and outside of offering him food I'd leave him alone for a few days. This is a very stressful time for a tortoise especially if he's wild caught. What makes you think the new one is male? Do you know for sure? He is awfully small to sex already I think. Anyhow, check your husbandry, change out that sand asap and keep him hydrated and he will come around. Also...keep us posted...

 

[Kristina]

You need to make sure to keep him separate from your other tortoise, especially since he is acting sick! If he has an illness, he can pass it to the other tortoise. THAT is the point of the quarantine - not to get them used to each other, but to keep them 100% separated for a minimum of 6 months. You have already put her in danger.

 

[Chaosye]

Well, it's not real sand, it's vita/calcium sand, my other tortoise has eaten it and never suffered any impaction. Now we've covered the sand with coconut fibers/coir, the same substrate we used for the other tortoise. She's still doing fine. He's still not eating, though, even if offered fruit.

One thing I'm somewhat worried about though, is that he's burying himself underneath the coconut and sand, someways away from the heat lamp. I've put a thermometer in there, and it should be the right temperature, but he's digging underneath his hiding log, which is underneath the heat lamp. Should it be there, or on the cool side? My female tortoise seems to always push her log underneath the heat lamp.



Edit: The enclosure we have him in right now a decently sized vivarium, but we don't really have any options other than a vivarium right now, nothing big enough, at least. We covered the sides of the vivarium with cardboard and paper.

 

[TortieGal]

You should really get rid of the calcium sand it can cause compaction and death, I'm glad it hasn’t happened to you yet but that doesn’t mean it won't. You need to be able to moisten the coconut coir you can't moisten the sand. I hope he starts feeling better soon.

 

[Chaosye]

Most of the sand I've removed already.

Anyways, I hope it's not too bad to keep a thread going like this, but he's still hasn't eaten, about three days since we got him from the pet store. I give him fresh food everyday. He also never seems to want to bask in the light/heat, and just stays inside his log or digs underground.

I'm sure that the enclosure is warm enough, maybe he's just extremely shy and runs at the sight of any motion? He never stays out long enough to eat the food, and once he gets inside the log, he's staying there unless someone pulls him out. I'm thinking that by the end of the week, if he's still not eating, we might have to start force feeding.

 

[egyptiandan]

Do you know what the temperatures are in the enclosure? If not, than you need to pick up a digital thermometer to make sure your temperatures are right.

Danny