Help with spring mix ID

[tofuqueen]

Okay, so I feel a little silly having to post this... but I'll put my pride aside for Pablo. Can anyone tell me what type of lettuce/green this is? I bought some organic spring mix and I have no idea what type of lettuce this is! I want to make sure it's okay for my Russian tortoise. I was happy that I was able to find a good spring mix that didn't have spinach, romaine, or iceburg lettuce. Just want to make sure this curly stuff is good for him!
Thanks!!

 

[Maggie Cummings]

That's the new growth of endive. I use Spring mix for all my tortoises with other stuff added, and I leave in the spinach and the other stuff. Yes, TOO much spinach is not a good thing but the little bit that's in a bag of Spring mix can't hurt. The amount of Romain or iceberg can't hurt either. It's just not necessary to pick apart the greens in that bag. You'd have to feed him straight spinach for a long time to do much damage. Yes, I know that spinach binds calcium to it effectively preventing the tortoise from metabolizing it, but the small amount in that bag just isn't enough. Spinach also has good properties and is good for their blood, I add spinach to my tortoise salad several times a month...

 

[egyptiandan]

Maggie

Feeding any spinach to a young tortoise isn't a good idea. The oxalic acid in spinach does bind with calcium. This does make the calcium unavailable, but the calcium oxalates (produced when oxalic acid and calcium combine) are the main ingredient in bladder, kidney and liver stones.
When your feeding a mix of greens everyday (which might include spinach or any other green that has a medium to high oxalic acid content), you don't know exactly what and in what amounts your tortoise is eating. If I'm giving a variety in one day, I make sure there is nothing with an oxalic acid content in the mix.
I do a varied diet weekly (1 thing each day), giving them a varied diet on a weekly basis.

Maggie is right that is Endive

Danny

 

[George]

Maggie

Feeding any spinach to a young tortoise isn't a good idea. The oxalic acid in spinach does bind with calcium. This does make the calcium unavailable, but the calcium oxalates (produced when oxalic acid and calcium combine) are the main ingredient in bladder, kidney and liver stones.
When your feeding a mix of greens everyday (which might include spinach or any other green that has a medium to high oxalic acid content), you don't know exactly what and in what amounts your tortoise is eating. If I'm giving a variety in one day, I make sure there is nothing with an oxalic acid content in the mix.
I do a varied diet weekly (1 thing each day), giving them a varied diet on a weekly basis.

Maggie is right that is Endive

Danny

Sorry to jump on this thread but 'what is in your spring mix?' as no two are the same and i am not sure what leaves in the bag they should have (i have two IST) leanne

 

[egyptiandan]

Spinach is the only thing in any Spring Mix I've ever seen that isn't good.
Spinach are the round green leaves, sometimes they are a bit wavey.

Danny

 

[Stazz]

George, most spring mixes have types of lettuce like lollo rosso, raddichio, endive, escarole and other types, as Danny says, that are all A-OK for your torty friend
The mix I buy over here is infact called Italian mix, it has lollo rosso and everything except endive...and I take the spinach out...there are only usually about 4 or 5 pieces of spinach leaf in my mix anyway

 

[tofuqueen]

Thanks for helping id the lettuce! I just double checked the ingredients for the spring mix, and there is some romaine mixed in, which I thought there wasn't. I've heard romaine just isn't that nutritious for them, but since I know what it looks like, I can just pick it out. Here are the ingredients for this particular mix that I've been using:
red and green romaine, red and green oak leaf, red leaf, loolo rosa, tango, red and green chard, mizuna, arugula, mache, frisee, radicchio.
But now I'm worried that there is stuff mixed in that isn't in the ingredient list because "endive" isn't listed, but a few people have identified the pic as endive. Oh this is so confusing!! I just want to feed him the right stuff, and a good variety, but it's so hard sometimes with so much conflicting info! I have to wait another month or so before I can start feeding him the hibiscus plant I bought and re-potted. I ordered clover and a tort seed mix, but that will take a while to start growing as well. So for now I guess I'll do the best I can with the spring mix and added greens such as dandelion, turnip greens, escarole, ect. Thanks for the help! This forum has been amazing! Pablo is my very first tortoise, so lots of questions have come up!

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Danny...
this is one time we're gonna have to agree to disagree. Feeding a lot of spinach is probably not a good idea, but feeding the small amount that comes in Spring Mix doesn't hurt any (small or not) tortoise. And like I said, I have added spinach to my tort salad semi regularly and I raise healthy tortoises.
I think that when you are the be all end all guy that this forum thinks you are you scare new keepers who are nervous anyway about keeping tortoises when you put up red flags like you do about spinach. I agree with what you say about spinach. I just think that feeding the amount that comes in Spring Mix is not going to cause the sickness and or death of young or old tortoises the way you make it sound that it will.

 

[George]

George, most spring mixes have types of lettuce like lollo rosso, raddichio, endive, escarole and other types, as Danny says, that are all A-OK for your torty friend
The mix I buy over here is infact called Italian mix, it has lollo rosso and everything except endive...and I take the spinach out...there are only usually about 4 or 5 pieces of spinach leaf in my mix anyway

Thanks Stace, i'm actually leanne, my tortoise is george lol, we too have italian mix my breeder recommended it when weeds etc...are low. i haven't tried it yet as i was not sure they could eat everything in it! i knew about spinach - thanks again!

& Danny always there with sound advice - thankyou!

 

[Yvonne G]

Thanks for helping id the lettuce! I just double checked the ingredients for the spring mix, and there is some romaine mixed in, which I thought there wasn't. I've heard romaine just isn't that nutritious for them, but since I know what it looks like, I can just pick it out. Oh this is so confusing!!

I wouldn't pick out the romaine. The only thing to worry about in your package of mixed lettuces is if there is a lot of spinach in it. Leave in everything else. I have used Spring Mix for years...for babies up to adult tortoises, and I have never picked out the spinach or the romaine, or anything! However, I don't feed Spring Mix exclusively. Since I have so many tortoises, it is economical for me to buy quite a nice variety of greens from the produce store. I buy several heads/bunches of everything they sell. With only one tortoise this is not economical. But, you can buy one bunch of turnip greens and a package of Spring Mix and feed until used up, then buy a bunch/head of something else and feed until its gone, etc. If you pick weeds and grasses and add these to your daily feeding of produce, you should end up with a pretty well-rounded diet.

What you've heard about romaine is true, but that is only if you feed romaine exclusively. Romaine is perfectly fine as part of a nice variety of greens!

Yvonne

 

[stells]

Is it not better though to make people aware that feeding oxalate rich food to young tortoises in the growing stage... can end up with a small tortoise trying to pass a big stone... has happened to me luckily the tortoise is still alive and kicking but others haven't had the same luck.....

Danny...
this is one time we're gonna have to agree to disagree. Feeding a lot of spinach is probably not a good idea, but feeding the small amount that comes in Spring Mix doesn't hurt any (small or not) tortoise. And like I said, I have added spinach to my tort salad semi regularly and I raise healthy tortoises.
I think that when you are the be all end all guy that this forum thinks you are you scare new keepers who are nervous anyway about keeping tortoises when you put up red flags like you do about spinach. I agree with what you say about spinach. I just think that feeding the amount that comes in Spring Mix is not going to cause the sickness and or death of young or old tortoises the way you make it sound that it will.

 

[Gulf Coast]

Umm okay I have been giving Waldo the spinach that comes in the spring mix.. He is around 8 or 9 yrs so not a baby by no means.. BUT now Im worried.. lol.. IM sitting on the spinach fence with maggie on one side and danny on the other.. Which way do I go??? Is this ONLY for young torts? Some one push or pull me to one side of the fence.. lol.. Im lost and wanna make sure Im doing the right thing for Waldo..

 

[egyptiandan]

I always find it better to aire on the side of caution and I don't feed any spinach to any of my tortoises. There are plenty of other foods out there to feed.

Danny

 

[Seiryu]

I do a varied diet weekly (1 thing each day), giving them a varied diet on a weekly basis.
Danny

Danny- Do you mean on Sunday you feed just Collard Greens, Monday is just Dandelion greens etc? *as an example of course*

So 1 thing a day and nothing else?

Or is this just stuff you add in on top of grasses/weeds they find outside? Or do they only eat what you feed them?

 

[egyptiandan]

Yes I try to give just one thing a day, except on the off day I give Spring mix without the spinach.
That doesn't mean though that everyone gets the same thing here To many mouths to do that most days.

Danny

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Kelly...I am not saying Danny is wrong by any means. I AM saying that scaring new keepers or old for that matter to think that spinach is so bad they feel compelled to pull out the few leafs of spinach that comes in Spring mix just isn't right. If feeding the way Danny does (one thing a day) then I wouldn't feed spinach. But I do add spinach to a tort salad a couple of times a month.
I buy a large container of Spring Mix and add all the other good things that are in the produce section, (endive escarole, romaine, green and red leaf lettuces watercress, collard greens, kale, chicory, radicchio, turnip greens,). I cut it all up into snall pieces more easily eaten by smaller mouths.
I also roam the area by my house and collect weeds, grape leafs, mulberry leafs and others, blossoms and anything else that is edible. I feed more of the stuff I collect outside then I do the grocery store greens or Spring Mix.

Spinach is very high in vitamins K and A and has a high percentage of iron in it. There are many necessary nutrients in spinach, but most of what I am saying is that scaring people into taking a few leafs of spinach out of a bag of Spring mix just isn't necessary in my opinion.

 

[Stazz]

Well I'm excited to go and take photo's of the massive canal behind our new apartment so you can all help me find out what Tallula can eat there !!! Wooo hooo!

 

[stells]

I don't like the way that you say it is scaring new/old keepers... making them aware of it yes... but not scaring... would it be better if this info wasn't posted at all...

I don't feed one item per day... i am lucky enough to be in a country where weeds are plentiful... at the moment mine are only feeding on what is in their outside enclosures that consists of edible weeds and plants i have grown for them, i will throw in some Romaine once per week with suppliments on as our UV readings here are considerably lower than over there... i could count up the amount of different plants and weeds in there but its to many... i have relied on supermarket foods in the winter though when they can't spend 24/7 outside and when i need to bulk out weeds... but don't feel the need to feed spinach... cabbage or the like and won't even buy a bagged salad if it contains any of those items... the only tortoise here that gets formulated diet is my Indian star once per week... no one keeper is the same and can never be but to make people aware of things we have experienced can in my eyes only be thought of as a positive not a negative...

Kelly...I am not saying Danny is wrong by any means. I AM saying that scaring new keepers or old for that matter to think that spinach is so bad they feel compelled to pull out the few leafs of spinach that comes in Spring mix just isn't right. If feeding the way Danny does (one thing a day) then I wouldn't feed spinach. But I do add spinach to a tort salad a couple of times a month.
I buy a large container of Spring Mix and add all the other good things that are in the produce section, (endive escarole, romaine, green and red leaf lettuces watercress, collard greens, kale, chicory, radicchio, turnip greens,). I cut it all up into snall pieces more easily eaten by smaller mouths.
I also roam the area by my house and collect weeds, grape leafs, mulberry leafs and others, blossoms and anything else that is edible. I feed more of the stuff I collect outside then I do the grocery store greens or Spring Mix.

Spinach is very high in vitamins K and A and has a high percentage of iron in it. There are many necessary nutrients in spinach, but most of what I am saying is that scaring people into taking a few leafs of spinach out of a bag of Spring mix just isn't necessary in my opinion.

 

[Yvonne G]

Maybe "scare" was too strong a word, however sometimes with new people you have to put the fear of god into them someway or another. I used to mention a whole list of good foods to feed tortoises when I adopted out my desert tortoise rescues, lettuce being one of them. However, I soon found out that people zoned in on the word "lettuce" and thought, oh, that's easy. And eventually the poor tortoise was only being fed lettuce. Now when I list all the foods, the word "lettuce" is not on the list.

I think its the same thing with our subject here. In order for folks to really see what a problem too much spinach can cause, it might be a good idea to "put the fear of god into them" about it. Maggie is a more experienced keeper and the way she raises her babies and feeds her animals works for her because she uses a nice variety of different foods along with the little bit of spinach. A new tortoise keeper who is trying to keep a baby tortoise alive might be better off having a scare put into them about taking out the spinach. They might think they are keeping their baby hydrated when, in fact, he is not hydrated. In this case the spinach, or any food that might cause stones would be best avoided.

We can't know how every person here takes care of their animals, so all we can do is share our experience and hope to help those looking for help.

Yvonne

 

[Maggie Cummings]

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.