Hello from NYC

[Karl Smith]

Hi Everyone,
My name is Karl. I just bought a female Russian tortoise thinking she would make a good pet for my first grade classroom. I have her at home at the moment. I am wondering if I have made a terrible mistake though as I can only house her in a fish tank. She seems to be doing OK now that she has gotten over the move from the pet store but I find myself fretting a lot at whether I am providing the right conditions for her. I had a tortoise as a kid in the UK and don't remember providing anything special for her. She just wandered around a pen in the garden, ate lettuce and hibernated during the winters. I hope this little creature does OK in an indoor environment. Any words of advice or encouragement would be much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[kirsty Johnston]

Hi Karl and welcome to the forum!
Back in the day we here in the uk didn't understand much about tortoises but thankfully we know so much more than we ever did before the key with diet is that you keep it as varied as possible. Iceberg lettuce isn't actually good for tortoises because they have little nutritional value, on the other hand lambs lettuce and romaine lettuce is pretty good. The best things for tortoises are actually weeds like dandelions and flowers like rose petals.
Regarding the fish tank how big is it? The minimum size would be 6x3 in my opinion but if you aren't able to provide outdoor accommodation I would ask you to go bigger. They need room to roam and explore. If at all possible it would be great if you could set something outside to allow the little guy some outdoor time maybe during the summer holidays if weather permits?
You will also need a uva, uvb and heat bulb for the enclosure. Check out the care sheets for Russians if you haven't already done so.
Also we love pictures so please let us see the new addition to the family!

 

[hingeback]

Welcome to the forum. What size is her tank? Tortoises require a lot of space, and her enclosure should not have see through sides because she would try to get pass the transparent side and will stress her out. In the indoor enclosure you also need a heat lamp and uv bulb (never use the coil bulbs, will burn their eyes). How big is your outdoor enclosure? Take a look at these threads:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

 

[kirsty Johnston]

Hi Karl and welcome to the forum!
Back in the day we here in the uk didn't understand much about tortoises but thankfully we know so much more than we ever did before the key with diet is that you keep it as varied as possible. Iceberg lettuce isn't actually good for tortoises because they have little nutritional value, on the other hand lambs lettuce and romaine lettuce is pretty good. The best things for tortoises are actually weeds like dandelions and flowers like rose petals.
Regarding the fish tank how big is it? The minimum size would be 6x3 in my opinion but if you aren't able to provide outdoor accommodation I would ask you to go bigger. They need room to roam and explore. If at all possible it would be great if you could set something outside to allow the little guy some outdoor time maybe during the summer holidays if weather permits?
You will also need a uva, uvb and heat bulb for the enclosure. Check out the care sheets for Russians if you haven't already done so.
Also we love pictures so please let us see the new addition to the family!

Also forgot to add 6x3 would be minimum for a baby - probably around 8x3 minimum for an adult, again would go bigger if you can if you can't get anything outdoor set up

 

[wellington]

Hello and Welcome. Simple answer, yes it is a mistake to put a tortoise in a class room. Aquariums are too small for anything other then a hatchling. Besides all the other requirements needed.

 

[popeye tortoise]

Welcome Carl to the forum, These tortoise keepers will help you make all the right decisions in the care of your tortoise. Good people.

 

[Karl Smith]

Hi Kisty and everyone,

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. So the tank is a small one - 10 (US) gallon. When I get her to school I will provide something bigger, Right now she is having a wand around in the bathroom. I have three digs so I can;t let her loos in my apartment. I read on one of the forums that a 50 gallon Rubbermaid storage bin is an acceptable housing. I have a heat lamp and a UVB but it is one of those coil jobs. I will switch it fro something else tomorrow. The heat lamb is a 50W. I did have 100W but I was concerned abut her overheating as the apace is very small. I didn't see her basking that much so I don't think she is cold. At night I haven't been providing any heat although I do have a black outgo bulb. I read on one of the forums that night temps in the mid- to upper- 60s are OK. The room is not cool but not cold. She seems OK in the mornings, jus a little sleepy and slow. Is this all OK. IN my classroom I will provide a night heat bus as the school does get cold and in NYC the temp can really from in Jan and Feb. So gar she has eaten some collard greens and some dandelions leaves that I picked for her. I will try her on some rose petals. All the corner stores here in NY sells flowers and I have seen them peeling off the outer leaves of roses to spruce them up and keep them fresh-looking. I will ask for some. I have put water in with her even thought bey said in the the store there was no need to. I have been giving her a warm bath every other days and this gives her some exercise and she poops in the water. I will post a pic soon.

Karl

 

[kirsty Johnston]

Hi Kisty and everyone,

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. So the tank is a small one - 10 (US) gallon. When I get her to school I will provide something bigger, Right now she is having a wand around in the bathroom. I have three digs so I can;t let her loos in my apartment. I read on one of the forums that a 50 gallon Rubbermaid storage bin is an acceptable housing. I have a heat lamp and a UVB but it is one of those coil jobs. I will switch it fro something else tomorrow. The heat lamb is a 50W. I did have 100W but I was concerned abut her overheating as the apace is very small. I didn't see her basking that much so I don't think she is cold. At night I haven't been providing any heat although I do have a black outgo bulb. I read on one of the forums that night temps in the mid- to upper- 60s are OK. The room is not cool but not cold. She seems OK in the mornings, jus a little sleepy and slow. Is this all OK. IN my classroom I will provide a night heat bus as the school does get cold and in NYC the temp can really from in Jan and Feb. So gar she has eaten some collard greens and some dandelions leaves that I picked for her. I will try her on some rose petals. All the corner stores here in NY sells flowers and I have seen them peeling off the outer leaves of roses to spruce them up and keep them fresh-looking. I will ask for some. I have put water in with her even thought bey said in the the store there was no need to. I have been giving her a warm bath every other days and this gives her some exercise and she poops in the water. I will post a pic soon.

Karl

Hi Karl
Your enclosure is really too small I'm afraid. Even a 50 gallon tank for a hatchling is pushing it if I'm honest. Russians in particular like to roam around a lot so it's really important they get space to wander around.
You can buy a thermometer as well which comes in handy - during the evening mid 60's is good and during the day the basking spot under her light should be around 95 Fahrenheit. I also use a ceramic heat emitter at night to keep the temps up and yes you are doing the right thing by changing your coiled bulb there has been instances where babies have been blinded by them
The rose petals from the corner shops sounds like a good idea but most of the roses get sprayed with chemicals and if that's the case they are not safe to feed I'm afraid. I've just had a thought that as a teacher you are in a great place to get all the kids to go weed picking for you (soo exciting!) you can get dandelion leaves and the flowers, clovers, sow thistle, mallow, hawksbit and many more providing weed killer isn't added to them. Also stinging nettles and thistles are great too (although I would maybe just pick that yourself!) unfortunately at this time of the year it's difficult to get weeds but you could maybe try growing them in your classroom as another project?

 

[Karl Smith]

Hi again Kirsty,

Would she be happy wandering around the room before the kids arrive and after they leave? It is a tiled floor and we have a rug. We also have a roof top playground and maybe I could build a run for her for the spring and fall so that she can have some fresh air and sunshine. I will bring her home in the summer and can take her to a local park and let her roam on the grass, I guess, but I hope she doesn't get away! It gets very humid here in the summer but buildings are over-cooled. How will she cope with both those things? I have been in touch with someone in Philadelphia and he rescues tortoises. I should think he is better equipped to meet her needs. I wonder if I should just bite the bullet and send her to him. I want to do the best for her that I can but I am beginning to realize that that is not going to be very easy. The thing is she was in the pet store and who knows where she would've ended up? I know buying these creatures just perpetuates the situation. They probably already have another in the space she left. They gave me so much misinformation about how to care for - it really is quite depressing... Anyway, words of encouragement, please! Thanks a million!!! Karl

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hello Karl

 

[yillt]

Hi again Kirsty,

Would she be happy wandering around the room before the kids arrive and after they leave? It is a tiled floor and we have a rug. We also have a roof top playground and maybe I could build a run for her for the spring and fall so that she can have some fresh air and sunshine. I will bring her home in the summer and can take her to a local park and let her roam on the grass, I guess, but I hope she doesn't get away! It gets very humid here in the summer but buildings are over-cooled. How will she cope with both those things? I have been in touch with someone in Philadelphia and he rescues tortoises. I should think he is better equipped to meet her needs. I wonder if I should just bite the bullet and send her to him. I want to do the best for her that I can but I am beginning to realize that that is not going to be very easy. The thing is she was in the pet store and who knows where she would've ended up? I know buying these creatures just perpetuates the situation. They probably already have another in the space she left. They gave me so much misinformation about how to care for - it really is quite depressing... Anyway, words of encouragement, please! Thanks a million!!! Karl

Hello. If you feel that giving her aways is best and you're sure, then it's better for both of you so you don't feel forced to look after her. On the other hand, you may have grown to love her and can't give her away. So you need to take precautions. First, the children should be supervised when handling her (depending on age. Sorry, I'm not sure how old they are.) She shouldn't really be allowed to run around a classroom, but a little run on the roof top playground on her own run would be perfect. If you decide to keep her, she will bring many happy hours to you and the children and I'm sure you will fall in love with her. Although they are rather c heap to look after, tortoises do need special requirements and if you can't provide these, unfortunately, you probably should think about giving her away. But it's completely your choice. Hope that helps. Good luck

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Karl, and welcome to the Forum!

No, wandering around on a cold floor isn't a good option. Think about it (besides it being too cold) once you let the tortoise know there's a bigger world outside his small tank, he's never going to be happy to be confined again. He'll drive you crazy with his scratching in the corners and trying to climb the sides. This is very stressful for the tortoise.

Russian tortoises live in an area of sparse food options, and because of that, they are hard-wired to roam over great distances looking for food. Even though you are now providing the food, he still has that instinct to wander. You should try to provide the largest habitat you possible can. And by large, I mean a big foot print. A 40 gallon tote sounds big, however, gallons are measured up the sides, not floor space. You want floor space.

I've never been an advocate of a classroom tortoise. I just don't think it's a good, healthy place for a tortoise. The school turns off the heat and lights after hours and on week-ends. But your tortoise needs his lights and heat all the time.

 

[kirsty Johnston]

Hi again Kirsty,

Would she be happy wandering around the room before the kids arrive and after they leave? It is a tiled floor and we have a rug. We also have a roof top playground and maybe I could build a run for her for the spring and fall so that she can have some fresh air and sunshine. I will bring her home in the summer and can take her to a local park and let her roam on the grass, I guess, but I hope she doesn't get away! It gets very humid here in the summer but buildings are over-cooled. How will she cope with both those things? I have been in touch with someone in Philadelphia and he rescues tortoises. I should think he is better equipped to meet her needs. I wonder if I should just bite the bullet and send her to him. I want to do the best for her that I can but I am beginning to realize that that is not going to be very easy. The thing is she was in the pet store and who knows where she would've ended up? I know buying these creatures just perpetuates the situation. They probably already have another in the space she left. They gave me so much misinformation about how to care for - it really is quite depressing... Anyway, words of encouragement, please! Thanks a million!!! Karl

Hi Karl, apologies for the late reply!
I would pretty much echo the other member replies for this one - letting the tortoise roam on the floor isn't a great idea because the temps aren't right for her. On the other hand the rooftop run sounds like a great idea for the summer!
The humidity isn't something I would worry about and there is actually another member on this forum called Gillian who lives in an apartment and takes her tortoise out for walks - I think she has a lead for him and everything! @Gillian Moore could you give Karl a little bit more information on your walks? He lives in an apartment as well
If you want to re-home her then only you can make this decision. I guess if a teacher came to me and asked if I thought a tortoise as a classroom pet was a good idea I would say no. But that doesn't mean you can't make it work, it feels a bit like your biggest concern is the enclosure size and if you can find a way to overcome this then you would maybe change your mind?
Finally the pet stores suck. I myself have been guilty of taking their advice and my poor boy paid the price for it. But you are on here learning which is more than can be said for a lot of other people. I also meant to ask what substrate you are using? Pet shops always get that wrong too

 

[Speedy-1]

Hi and welcome Karl !

 

[Careym13]

Welcome to TFO!!

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome Karl.

This is turning out to be a bigger undertaking than you imagined, it appears. It looks to me like you have two options:
1. Give the tortoise to someone else who can meet its needs.
2. You figure out how to meet its need in your care.

The tortoise needs a large temperature controlled enclosure. Smalls tanks are not going to do it, and loose on the floor seldom ends well for the tortoise. I see no reason why you can't build two matching 4x8 closed chambers or open tables and tote the tortoise back and forth with you. In a short amount of time the tortoise will get used to its daily commute and comfortable with both enclosures. This would be a great learning experience for the kids and potentially fun and rewarding for you too.

Read the threads that Hingeback linked for you above for more specific care info.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Hello, Karl and a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum.
it's the set up that's all important to giving the tortoise a happy and healthy life.
After the initial investment and effort things become much easier and tortoise keeping is a very special pleasure.
Check the information given above and the care sheets linked for you.
if you can manage it then the rewards are great.
if not, then giving the tortoise to a more suitable home might be the best idea.

 

[Karl Smith]

Update: Thanks to all of you for the above responses. Ten months later I still have Pebbles and she is doing well. I bought what I think is a large guinea pig enclosure and had one of the parents in my class build an upstairs area with a ramp. Pebbles lived happily in school until the summer and has been at home with me since then. I am planning to take her into school again very soon. The kids love her. We let her out in the classroom in a confined area on the rug which is about 8" X 6" and we take her up to the roof whenever the weather is sunny. My school is planning a roof renovation and I am trying to influence the architect to incorporate a pen up there for Pebbles that we can plant with things she likes to eat. My only worry with her is that she doesn't eat much at all. I give her a varied diet but she only eats the equivalent of a dandelion leaf or two per day. She loves dandelion flowers but these are in short supply in NYC in summer. She also loves shredded cabbage (light green). Is this OK to feed her sometimes? She has a bath every day and usually goes to the bathroom in the water. Should I feed her less frequently so that she has more of an appetite? She likes to wander round my apartment and will sometimes scratch to try to get out her cage. When she is out she either likes to roam but often just sleeps in a corner. She is mostly quite inactive in her cage and just sleeps a lot. I am so happy that I decided to keep her and have grown attached to her. I wish she liked to interact with me more but understand that she prefers to be left alone. She still hisses when I pick her up...