Hello from a sort of tortoise owner...

[pebblesbee]

Should I replace one or both of the tunnels with an overturned Tupperware container then? for a humid hide? Is a clear or 'frosted' one ok or would they prefer a opaque coloured one? I can go get one this weekend. I think all I have around are empty plastic ice cream containers!

 

[Abdulla6169]

Had a meeting with the manager. Ridiculous. Actually I found it difficult enough to convince them to allow me to take them to the vet myself, which I wasn't expecting, seeing as I'm now in charge of them! But apparently me trying to look after them correctly has been noted over the week and is a pain and I was viewed as suspect because I'm (I kid you not) "good with animals" and I look after my own pets and "spoil them" with good diet and a nice home too much. What even. Apparently too I'm going to go to the vet with "all this negativity, and the vet will feed from it and tell you what you want to hear". First of all, do I really want to hear that these tortoises have been neglected into deformity? And second of all, I'm pretty sure no vet worth his salt is going to give out advice they don't believe in, being led by the person bringing in the patient.
It's made me hopping mad to be honest. The problem is that manager actually really dislikes animals. So mention of their shell deformity, overgrown beak, and even MDB didn't 'scare them straight' because they genuinely are not bothered.

But. I won on that account (honestly, if I'd lost, I'd have kidnapped them and taken them anyway) and I'm taking them to the vet a week Monday when I have the day off and they can fit them in for a full check up and advice giving! If the vet says too much needs to be sorted out then management will "consider" allowing me to rehome them because they don't want to have the hassle themselves. In the meantime, I'm investigating what light bulbs they've given them, I'm adding more soil to the enclosure, I'll ring the handy men again to sort out some better ventilation in the enclosure...what else...I'll buy a cuttlebone this weekend for them, and I've already ordered tortoise safe seed mix to grow to add to their diet.

Oh, can I mist the substrate with a little water to keep it humid?

Yes , definitely just don't let the temps drop below 75F if it's humid

 

[Abdulla6169]

Should I replace one or both of the tunnels with an overturned Tupperware container then? for a humid hide? Is a clear or 'frosted' one ok or would they prefer a opaque coloured one? I can go get one this weekend. I think all I have around are empty plastic ice cream containers!

Clear is okay, you can cover it with topsoil/substrate... Any waterproof container that is large enough for the tort is OK...

 

[johnsonnboswell]

Wow, those guys are a real piece of work.

Don't bother with the hides now. It will make you look obsessed & can wait.

Yes, you can mist, or water directly as if the habitat were a garden bed.

The problem I can foresee with the vet is that s/he won't know enough about ordinary good care. There may be a reluctance to give offence, and there will be a lack of experience - they can fix things but don't know much about diet or habitat. Vets mosty cure illness & treat injuries. So go in very clear about what part you want the vet to play.

I'd be straight with the vet. Express your concerns, what you know to be true, what you want to accomplish, and how the vet can help. Don't rely on the vet to make a plan. Frame it so that the vet can be part of the solution.

Your concern, I believe, is the present and future of the animals, and the resistance of management to accommodate critical information or allow needed change.

 

[johnsonnboswell]

Telling management they are wrong is never popular. Presenting solutions is better. I can see several possible happy endings. One would be for the tortoises to receive proper care there. Another would be for the solution to be so much trouble that they prefer to rehome the tortoises. The outcome to avoid is continued neglect or for them to believe it's hopeless and do even less. Tortoises do respond to improved care. It's not hopeless.

Is there a local rescue or authority you can get on your side? We'll come over and help. Just say the word.

 

[pebblesbee]

Thanks for your response!
"make you look obsessed" I already know the feeling! I've taken to sneaking about with leafy greens and bags of soil on my lunch break as it is!
The vet is a very good one, I've used them for years for all my animals and they have vets who specialize there and always make sure you get an appointment with the right vet. That's why I'm waiting to go until a week Monday, as the reptile veterinary specialist is currently on leave! I've let them know what the problem is, and that I will be asking for advice, and they said she would be happy to help me. I'm going in armed with photographs of the habitat and a notebook for making notes, the poor woman. I'll be clear about the situation!
I will water the substrate tomorrow, and put a misting bottle on my shopping list!

I printed off pictures of what healthy tortoise shells should look like, and today showed the management a side by side comparison. It went down well, they understood, and seemed a bit happier about the vet visit and subsequent advice. I explained it in terms of humans getting bone deformities, and they were like 'Oooooh it's a big deal then'. I don't think they had considered how important shells are for tortoises!

I'll get them their happy ending! It'd be nice if it turned out fairytale and everything is fixed and goes well and proper care is given, but at the end of the day, the rehoming option would probably be even better. Someone who loves animals and tortoises would give them a far better home I feel.We'll see what happens!

Thanks for the offer! There's local rspca who would assist me if it comes to it. I've rescued animals in the past and they have always been really good, and I know a good local rescue too that might take them if they need a place to go before proper rehoming.

 

[Tom]

There is nothing inherently wrong with a Vivarium. In fact they sometimes make it easier to maintain good conditions, and that is what we have not heard yet. What are the four temperatures for these tortoises? Warm side, cool side, basking spot and night?

The sand needs to go. That is the old way of doing things and many times it causes impaction and skin or eye irritation. Yes, its all over the internet, but I disagree because of the harm I have seen it cause so many times.

It looks like you are now giving them a good diet. You should also be offering them a calcium supplement two or three times a week with D3. Just sprinkle a tiny pinch of RepCal with D3 on there food.

Soaking them in a tall sided opaque tub a couple of times a week would be a good idea too. Use warm water only about 1/3 of the way up their shells. Usually works best if done in the morning for torts that aren't used to it. I would soak them for an hour before the car ride to the vet to empty them out some. Transport them in a plastic leakproof tub on a towel. Use a small tub just big enough to fit each tortoise, so they don't slide around and bang the sides as you drive. I use dish washing tubs from Walmart for this. Only cost about $2.

For UV look into the long florescent tubes called HO units. You can mount the fixture on the ceiling of the enclosure and the UV will still reach the tortoises. Even better take them outside for some grazing, exercise and sunshine in a safe enclosure that is at least half in the shade on hot summer days. Kiddie pools from Walmart will work for this.

Lastly, russians should never be housed as a pair. They don't like it and it is very stressful.

Here are a bunch of threads to help you out:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/pairs.34837/

 

[Aunt Caffy]

Good for you for looking out for these little guys.

 

[Camryn]

Your very brave to do this. Can we have an update?

 

[Jabuticaba]

Hello and welcome! Such a great thing you're doing! The only thing I can recommend is that you take pictures and post them here. People will critique their overall health and living conditions, so you can build your case against having them there. Good luck!


May, Aussies, & THBs
IG: @AUSSOMEAUSSIES

 

[pebblesbee]

Your very brave to do this. Can we have an update?

Thanks, I posted an update here if you want to see!
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/update-from-the-sort-of-tortoise-owner.98269/#post-918247
Things are going ok at the minute. I am now completely in charge of their care, which is good as far as I'm concerned. They're enjoying their new diet and the exercise I now give them! I'm still going to be constantly applying pressure to rehome them though, right up until I (hopefully) leave for college next year. I don't really want to leave them behind, I'd be constantly worried about them! Hopefully they'll let me take them, or allow me to find them a proper home. I'll see

 

[Jabuticaba]

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