Greek wheezing, bubble eye

[reptilematt]

Hi everyone,

I found these forums tonight after researching some information on tortoise health and community forums.

I have 2 tortoises. 1 Greek of some kind (maybe Syrian or Ibera) and one mean and hardy Russian.

The Greek has always given me some problems in terms of health since I acquired her in 2003 from a PETCO that had her in horrible condition. I fed her, kept her under heat and got her moving. Mind you I'm a college student, and she's been under the care of my mother for roughly 4 years since I was in school. I just recently brought them home to my apartment, as I'm finishing graduate school and they were rocking the summer fine, but just yesterday she started with the wheeze and eye bubble. I've seen the eye bubble before but after some extra care, she usually gets over that. The slight high pitch wheezing is what I want to remedy and has me worried the most.

I know for certain that it hit 60F in her enclosure Friday night because my thermometer showed it in the history. Usually it's 75-80F at the coldest but the day of, it was 60F ambient and I figured I could turn off the heat emitters but FORGOT to turn them back on. Maybe a cold bug hit her?

I bought some Fluckers First-Aid to feed her tomorrow, but I think maybe some medicine would do better. I'd love to take her to a vet, but I won't be able to put up with a $200 bill just for a visit and without medication included. She's eating well, always by the food dish in the morning, and I give them both 20 minute soaks. As you can see in the pictures heating and lighting should hopefully not be the issue.

I realized that the repti-bark that I had in the tank since the summer was starting to dust, and removed it this afternoon with rabbit food as a replacement. I don't know if I should immediately take her to the vet, or if I should try and nurse her for the week. I would guestimate that she's around 10 years old. She is 6 1/2 inches in the shell.

Anyone have experience with bubble eyes and high pitch wheezing. Sounds like a clogged nose maybe. She's active and eating though! Tank is 4 feet by 25 inches. I'm in upstate NY so temperature is definitely an issue and since it's roughly 40F outside right now, fresh air isn't an option--not until May.

 

[egyptiandan]

Hi and welcome to the forum

First off I would never recommend rabbit pellets as a substrate. It's very hard for a tortoise to walk on and when it gets wet it molds very quickly. Your better off with peatmoss/organic soil and sand in a 70/30 mix or shredded aspen bedding.
What are your temperatures in your set-up, warm end, cool end, under basking lamp and night time? You seem to have gone a bit overboard with the ceramic heat emitters.
It sounds like your Greek (It looks to be a Golden or Golden/Antakyan cross, would need head and plastron pictures to be sure) has an upper respiratory infection. They will eat and seem well for a while, but it is a very serious infection. You will have to go to a vet that deals in tortoises to get rid of this infection.

Danny

 

[Clementine_3]

Hi Matt,
I don't want to comment on much as I am new to tortoises myself. What is her basking temperature though, and do you have something besides the analog/dial that you are using...those aren't very accurate. Sometimes raising the temperatures will jump start the immune system and help fight off RI's, if caught in time. If there are bubbles and sneezes though I should think a trip to the vet would be in order, and this is why I'm really responding...where in Upstate NY are you? I'm in the Albany area and know/use a fantastic vet, Dr. Green at the Colonie Animal Hospital. If you are at all close I would highly recommend him, and they have very reasonable rates. He has treated my geckos for various things (and done necropsies ) and I truly believe him to be a great herp/reptile vet.
I'm sure others will offer more help!

 

[reptilematt]

Hi and thank you for the kind welcoming and prompt replies!

The setup is as follows:

The tank/table-top is 12" high, 4' long, 25" wide. Plexi-glass walls. Currently I have rabbitt pelet substrate (actually rabbitt food because it was cheaper than the "reptile" bedding ulternative and the same stuff). It's temporary just so I know there's minimal risk of compaction and to provide with cleaner dust-free bedding until it starts to break-down.

The equipment and diet:

I have as follows in her enclosure at different times running on a timer:
-2x 60w Repticare ceramic infrared's. They put out temperatures close to 90F when both on, on both sides.
-1x Zoomed 100w ceramic infrared that I have for back-up in case I need temperatures to be a tad higher (which, in most cases I don't)
-1x Repti-Glo Exo-terra 5.0 Compact UVB
-1x 75w Exo-Terra Sun Glo Daylight Spot

Feeding her Romaine, Green, Red lettuce, Carrots, Dandelion leaves, about 3 slices of apple (once a week), some timothy hay. She's been on this type of feeding diet since we got her really. 10 years. She gets 2:1 Calcium/Phosphorus and T-Rex tortoise dust veggie formula frequently.

I would like to put sand in, but she's a gobbler and will eat anything even when it falls out of the plate. I used walnut shells for the longest time but they were extremely messy and she'd eat them when stuck to the lettuce.

I put some more pics of her in a few minutes. I have to wake her though


Temperatures 75F cool, except on Saturday when it was 59-60F, and warm can get close to 100F if the shades are all the way up. The room they're in is surrounded by windows and I try to let in the natural light. Although now I'm reading that too much light might actually be bad for them.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Matt: Welcome to the forum. It MIGHT be that your Greek was just reacting to the dust in the previous substrate. Go buy a sack of the aspen bedding. It doesn't cost much. But if it IS a resp. infection, you want to get started on the antibiotics as soon as you can.

Yvonne

---

crushed walnut shells are not good. Can be toxic if they use black walnuts, and might cause impaction. Sand is also not good as it does cause impaction when ingested on the food.

 

[reptilematt]

Additional pictures in this post.

We woke her up, but her eyes were wide open today. Just that her left eye had bubbles throughout the day.

I definitely need to do something with either the bedding or more exercise because check out her nails! Maybe just trim them with the reptile clippers they sell in stores? The Russian doesn't seem to have this problem and they both were in the same substrate (repti-bark) before.

 

[egyptiandan]

I'm afraid she doesn't look well. She's under a bit of stress with the changes of substrate, not the best substrates and the hot and cold temperatures.
The first thing I would do is move her out of the room you have her in. It gets to warm and to cold. Light from the windows only gets you heat as the glass filters out 98% of the UV light. With all the windows it also gets to cold at night.
You want to have warm end temperatures at 84 to 88F, cool end temperatures at 70 to 75F and 95 to 100F under the basking lamp. Night time temperatures should be around 70F.
She is a Golden greek and they don't do well with low temperatures, like the 60F or lower that she got. Even that one time can stress her out enough to cause her immune system to let bacteria flourish.
Also the compact coil flourescents aren't the best bulbs for the tortoises eyes. The best UVB light are MVB bulbs that produce UVB and heat, so are great for a basking spot during the day.
Her nails look fine to me as females have longer rear nails for nest digging.

Danny

 

[reptilematt]

Hey Danny thanks for the advice!

Her eyes are usually wide open; and were today before she went to bed, and we woke her up for her grand spotlight on tortoiseforum. I'm going to email a Vet tomorrow and ask if they have experience in tortoises. Maybe I can get a decent priced check-up and some antibiotics.

Could you send me a link to the MVB light you suggest? Possibly on eBay or something reputable that I can purchase from online? I have only Petsmarts, PETCO's, and Pet Supply shops in the area that all sell the generic Zoo Med and Exo-Terra branded bulbs.

I have a feeling that the one night that hit 60F, was the night that did her under. Right now my temperature is 80F warm side, and 75C cold side. I hope this should be alright. I'll take a few more pictures (maybe a quick video of her tomorrow). She seemed to be very active today scratching at the side of the "tank" and making a ruckus even as I heard her breathe. It definitely sounded like a clogged noise wheeze that any human would get. The bubbly eye--I'm not to sure, maybe a mix of the cold and the high content of dust but I think a Vet visit is well overdue especially if she's a Golden.

Danny, do you breed tortoises? Would you know if there are any indicators to tell age besides size? I figure she's probably early adult, but I'm not absolute.

MVB link would be awesome. I'll Google now for one.

 

[egyptiandan]

T-rex seem to be the best and here's a link that was the cheapest another member found. http://www.reptiledepot.com/mercury.html
The bubbly eyes are from the air humidity being low. So you'd need to up the relative air humidity in her enclosure.
Yes I do breed tortoises and quite a few of the Greeks. She is adult at the 6.5 inches. She's probably 10 to 12 years old.

Danny

 

[Maggie Cummings]

That's a pretty sick looking tortoise. Rabbit pellets do not make a good or even decent substrate. It molds when wet, and before wet it's hard to walk on.
Regardless of the cost this animal needs a Vet. Possibly you can find one who accepts payments. What city are you close to? I might be able to find a Vet near you...

 

[reptilematt]

T-rex seem to be the best and here's a link that was the cheapest another member found. http://www.reptiledepot.com/mercury.html
The bubbly eyes are from the air humidity being low. So you'd need to up the relative air humidity in her enclosure.
Yes I do breed tortoises and quite a few of the Greeks. She is adult at the 6.5 inches. She's probably 10 to 12 years old.

Danny

You're simply amazing. I sent a local vet an email; hopefully he's experienced in tortoises: http://www.theanimalhospital.com/staff_mike.htm

I actually have seen those MVB bulbs at Petsmart. 160watts is amazingly high. I'm a 'Green' person. Have you seen any of these on the lower wattage side of 100w or less??? A matter of fact, I'll probably have to buy a new lamp as the one I was planning to use as a secondary spot light only takes 75w.

Air humidity is currently at 20% and maybe that mixed with the cold bug caused the symptoms I am seeing! I'm not sure really how I can up the humidity without it getting out of control. I actually thought that high humidity is bad for them and lower is better (like between 20-40%)? Should it be more like 60-80?

 

[Clementine_3]

Dr. McCarthy at the Animal Hospital does do all the herp care there however, as I said in my previous post, it is my opinion that Dr. Green is better. I take my dog to The Animal Hospital and I take my reptiles to Dr. Green at Colonie Animal Hospital. It's on Central Avenue, about a mile or so west of Fuller Road (heading towards Schenectady). You will pay much less and get better care for your tort there. The phone number is 456-1613

 

[reptilematt]

Dr. McCarthy at the Animal Hospital does do all the herp care there however, as I said in my previous post, it is my opinion that Dr. Green is better. I take my dog to The Animal Hospital and I take my reptiles to Dr. Green at Colonie Animal Hospital. It's on Central Avenue, about a mile or so west of Fuller Road (heading towards Schenectady). You will pay much less and get better care for your tort there. The phone number is 456-1613

Would you know off hand how much it would cost for just an initial exam? I'll give them a call tomorrow.

 

[Clementine_3]

I took 3 (a Leopard gecko) there in November and the visit was $50. An initial visit may be a bit more, I don't recall though.

 

[Stazz]

Reptilmatt I sure do hope your torts get better ASAP !!!!! Sending healing vibes hehe.

 

[egyptiandan]

I'm not sure if anyone makes a MVB bulb under 100w. 100w is the lowest I've seen.
The humidity should be between 40 and 60%. It's not the humidity itself, but the humidity combined with temperature that can be harmful. Humid and warm is fine, but humid and cool is a recipe for a respiratory infection.

Danny

 

[reptilematt]

I'm not sure if anyone makes a MVB bulb under 100w. 100w is the lowest I've seen.
The humidity should be between 40 and 60%. It's not the humidity itself, but the humidity combined with temperature that can be harmful. Humid and warm is fine, but humid and cool is a recipe for a respiratory infection.

Danny

My conditions for the past month has been dry and warm. She didn't go to the plate and eat this morning so it's to the vet. Made an appointment for tomorrow morning. Hopefully it'll be ok. The Dr wrote to me through email this morning and said that the antibiotics would cost $20 or less. I hope he's true to his word.

Wish her luck!

 

[Crazy1]

reptilematt, I am glad to hear you have gotten your Golden an appointment. RI are no joke and can kill if not tended to. Often a URI will turn to Pneumonia which is harder to get rid of and a longer time on Antibiotics. I realize $$$ is always an issue but in this case I feel it will be well spent to keep you Shelled one healthy. Repti-bark is also not a good substrate. It is fir based and this will also irritate torts. Try using coco-fiber (bead a beast) or organic soil and sand at a 70/30% mixture. Then you can just stir in a glass of water on one end to help keep the humidity up.
The only MVB that is under 100 Watts is made by Mega ray and it does not produce heat. I would go with the 100 watt t-rex it is a good bulb and $37 is not bad. I have seen it as high as $80.
I know you only want what is best for your tort and asking these questions and getting her to a vet will all help. Please keep us updated on her.

 

[reptilematt]

Well I came home from work and soaked both tortoises for 15 minutes in luke-warm water. She didn't really seem to enjoy it so I took her out while my Russian had his little bubble bath from the rear like he always does for some reason.

Anyways, she was eating. I put very little Fluckers First-AID powder on her green veggies and she gobbled it up with some DH3. It wasn't a significant amount of food but she did woof it down. She also ate the food I had in from earlier in the morning before I left.

Here's a video and 2 pictures I uploaded: http://www.reptilematt.com/tort/

The video is huge. Tomorrow will be the big day to see what she has. She obviously has something. I just don't want to loose her, she has one of the nicest shell designs I've seen a "Golden" have.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Well I came home from work and soaked both tortoises for 15 minutes in luke-warm water. She didn't really seem to enjoy it so I took her out while my Russian had his little bubble bath from the rear like he always does for some reason.

Anyways, she was eating. I put very little Fluckers First-AID powder on her green veggies and she gobbled it up with some DH3. It wasn't a significant amount of food but she did woof it down. She also ate the food I had in from earlier in the morning before I left.

Here's a video and 2 pictures I uploaded: http://www.reptilematt.com/tort/

The video is huge. Tomorrow will be the big day to see what she has. She obviously has something. I just don't want to loose her, she has one of the nicest shell designs I've seen a "Golden" have.

I would stop with the powder. Just give her food, it looks like she has an appetite so stop with that icky powder, I don't think it's necessary.