Giardia

[Hbomb]

So i took my baby greek tortoise for a checkup and they said they found lots of flagellates...when i asked specifically what kind, they said giardia. My girl eats like a champ and has not shown concerning behavior. I am reading that most torts have this and its okay as long as there is no overgrowth. Should i still treat her even though its going to lower her immune system?

Also what substrate should i use during treatment? Like what is the protocol?

The vet also said i should not be using dirt substrate for babies and stick to shredded newspaper. Is that a thing?

 

[method89]

I'm not sure about the Giardia... but find a new vet immediately. nowhere on this website will anyone recommend shredded newspaper as a substrate... Its a tortoise not a puppy at the puppy store. What kind of tortoise and what exactly do you mean by dirt substrate? is it just dirt or is mixed with mulch or bark? Once we know what tortoise you have we point you in the right direction as far husbandry is concerned.

 

[Toddrickfl1]

So i took my baby greek tortoise for a checkup and they said they found lots of flagellates...when i asked specifically what kind, they said giardia. My girl eats like a champ and has not shown concerning behavior. I am reading that most torts have this and its okay as long as there is no overgrowth. Should i still treat her even though its going to lower her immune system?

Also what substrate should i use during treatment? Like what is the protocol?

The vet also said i should not be using dirt substrate for babies and stick to shredded newspaper. Is that a thing?

I don't know anything about flagellates to answer your question. However if the Vet told you to keep your Tortoise on shredded newspaper I'd disregard anything they told you and get a second opinion at an exotic vet.

 

[method89]

I'm not sure about the Giardia... but find a new vet immediately. nowhere on this website will anyone recommend shredded newspaper as a substrate... Its a tortoise not a puppy at the puppy store. What kind of tortoise and what exactly do you mean by dirt substrate? is it just dirt or is mixed with mulch or bark? Once we know what tortoise you have we point you in the right direction as far husbandry is concerned.

self edit... baby greek tortoise...

Greek Tortoise Care Guide

The Greek Tortoise Care Guide (Testudo graeca ssp) Chris Leone HermanniHaven.com GardenStateTortoise.com theTurtleRoom.com THIS CARE-SHEET IS DETAILED FOR A REASON. READ IT THOROUGHLY BEFORE PROCEEDING WITH OBTAINING A TORTOISE. Moroccan tortoise (Testudo graeca marokkensis) Introduction...

www.tortoiseforum.org

 

[Hbomb]

I'm not sure about the Giardia... but find a new vet immediately. nowhere on this website will anyone recommend shredded newspaper as a substrate... Its a tortoise not a puppy at the puppy store. What kind of tortoise and what exactly do you mean by dirt substrate? is it just dirt or is mixed with mulch or bark? Once we know what tortoise you have we point you in the right direction as far husbandry is concerned.

Husbandry is not my issue. She is a greek tortoise and i have her on coco coir.

My concern at the moment is if i should be treating her for this giardia...and if so, what is the protocol. I will definitely not be putting her on shredded newspaper..i may be a newbie but i have some common sense lol!

 

[method89]

Give this a read

Panacur

Speedy was wormed using panacur for the first time from Wednesday 24th June to Sunday 28th June Yesterday afternoon/evening (Monday 29th June) Speedy did a large amount of diarrhoea....is this normal after using panacur?

www.tortoiseforum.org

 

[Hbomb]

Give this a read

Panacur

Speedy was wormed using panacur for the first time from Wednesday 24th June to Sunday 28th June Yesterday afternoon/evening (Monday 29th June) Speedy did a large amount of diarrhoea....is this normal after using panacur?

www.tortoiseforum.org

This is more regarding worms, which the vet did not care to treat my Greeks because its a light load...which the post confirms. But they found a heavy amount of giardia...which is not a worm. No one here has any experience or info on giardia?

 

[KarenSoCal]

I have no experience with giardia in tortoises, but in my dog.

It is a parasite that is often found in contaminated water, especially brooks and streams running through woods. It looks great, your dog laps some, and in a couple days his poop is like a faucet was turned on.

After a time, it usually goes away on its own. But if the diarrhea is bad, its treated with Flagyl, an antibiotic that's given by mouth.

Wash your hands very well and often...people get giardia very easily.

If it is a large load, personally I would treat it. I don't know if Flagyl is appropriate for tortoises or not, but I would think a large load would eventually make him sick.

If you do treat, I would put him on newspaper, not shredded. You want to clean up every poop ASAP, or he could reinfect himself, or you. It needs to be easy to do.

Of course, you could also wait and see if he gets diarrhea. If he can resist the infection long enough, they do eventually go away, so meds might not be needed.

 

[method89]

Panacur is used to treat Giardia...

 

[Hbomb]

I have no experience with giardia in tortoises, but in my dog.

It is a parasite that is often found in contaminated water, especially brooks and streams running through woods. It looks great, your dog laps some, and in a couple days his poop is like a faucet was turned on.

After a time, it usually goes away on its own. But if the diarrhea is bad, its treated with Flagyl, an antibiotic that's given by mouth.

Wash your hands very well and often...people get giardia very easily.

If it is a large load, personally I would treat it. I don't know if Flagyl is appropriate for tortoises or not, but I would think a large load would eventually make him sick.

If you do treat, I would put him on newspaper, not shredded. You want to clean up every poop ASAP, or he could reinfect himself, or you. It needs to be easy to do.

Of course, you could also wait and see if he gets diarrhea. If he can resist the infection long enough, they do eventually go away, so meds might not be needed.

She literally has no symptoms. Her poop is always normal and she eats like a champ. She does hide a lot but she is a baby and i read everywhere that babies hide often. Since she is a baby and needs humidity, how would i keep her on newspaper and maintain her humidity?

 

[KarenSoCal]

Panacur is used to treat Giardia...

Metronidazole, the alternate med mentioned in this, is Flagyl. It's frequently prescribed for intestinal infections in humans, as well as other animals.

It looks like Panacur is the med of choice now. It will be interesting to see what the vet prescribes if the OP chooses to treat it.

 

[Hbomb]

Metronidazole, the alternate med mentioned in this, is Flagyl. It's frequently prescribed for intestinal infections in humans, as well as other animals.

It looks like Panacur is the med of choice now. It will be interesting to see what the vet prescribes if the OP chooses to treat it.

She prescribed flagyl..i am still on the fence of treating her. I am new here and trying to figure out how i am supposed to maintain proper humidity while keeping her on newspaper

 

[KarenSoCal]

She literally has no symptoms. Her poop is always normal and she eats like a champ. She does hide a lot but she is a baby and i read everywhere that babies hide often. Since she is a baby and needs humidity, how would i keep her on newspaper and maintain her humidity?

For a while while she's being treated, I would maybe put a 2nd water dish in with her. And most importantly, soak her at least twice daily for an hour if possible. You might be able to catch at least some of the results in the water.

There's no way to know for sure how she will respond to the med, whatever the vet prescribes. Maybe you won't even notice she had it. I've seen both...diarrhea and no evidence. In my dogs over the years.

 

[KarenSoCal]

She prescribed flagyl..i am still on the fence of treating her. I am new here and trying to figure out how i am supposed to maintain proper humidity while keeping her on newspaper

We were responding at the same time...see post # 13.

 

[Markw84]

Flagyl - Metronidazole is the drug of choice overwhelmingly for flagellates. However, I would not treat unless I started to see persistent symptoms - Lack of appetite, loose stools, mucus in stools, weight loss. Most reptile vets now consider a "normal load" of flagellates as a part of normal gut flora. There are a lot of different types of flagellates. Giardia is just one.

 

[Hbomb]

Flagyl - Metronidazole is the drug of choice overwhelmingly for flagellates. However, I would not treat unless I started to see persistent symptoms - Lack of appetite, loose stools, mucus in stools, weight loss. Most reptile vets now consider a "normal load" of flagellates as a part of normal gut flora. There are a lot of different types of flagellates. Giardia is just one.

I am also in the Sacramento area. Who is your vet?

 

[Markw84]

I am also in the Sacramento area. Who is your vet?

I've "interviewed" several around here. The one I ended up using is Dr Mariam Brick - Madison Ave Vet Clinic. She does have a lot of experience with turtles and tortoises and I have been very pleased with her to date. From our conversations, and the times I have used her, she appears to be current on most all the husbandry issues as we discuss here.

 

[Hbomb]

I've "interviewed" several around here. The one I ended up using is Dr Mariam Brick - Madison Ave Vet Clinic. She does have a lot of experience with turtles and tortoises and I have been very pleased with her to date. From our conversations, and the times I have used her, she appears to be current on most all the husbandry issues as we discuss here.

That is also where i go and that is where i went yesterday. Her staff is who suggested i keep my baby Greek on shredded newspaper and said coco coir was bad. They have been great with my beardie but i am weary of them with my baby tort now.

 

[Hbomb]

I've "interviewed" several around here. The one I ended up using is Dr Mariam Brick - Madison Ave Vet Clinic. She does have a lot of experience with turtles and tortoises and I have been very pleased with her to date. From our conversations, and the times I have used her, she appears to be current on most all the husbandry issues as we discuss here.

They specified she had giardia, but i have not seen a single symptom of her even having it. I think i will follow your lead and wait to see symptoms before messing with her gut using antibiotics.

 

[JMM]

Giardia is a protozoan. Tortoises have many types of protozoa as part of their normal (and requisite) gut flora. Because metronidazole and panacur indiscriminately destroy protozoa, one has to weigh treatment very carefully. Thus, determination of whether the protozoa are indeed Giardia is crucial. I would request that a fresh sample should be sent into a diagnostic facility for examination by an experienced parasitology technician and confirmed by ELISA should be done. PCR may also be available. Also one always have to keep in mind that even though they are available, each and every drug has a unique toxicity and pharmacokinetic profile in each species--tortoises are not mammals. Treatment should be directly overseen by an exotics vet with experience and training in torts.