Can a young sulcata (approximately 18 months) thrive, eating several different types of grasses only ? Has anybody tried this diet ? Len
Eating Grass ?
- Thread starter Len B
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Good question Len. I have pondered this myself a few times. I have seen a place that only feeds grass hay to all ages. They had a 3 year old that was less than 3" and a 6 year old that was around 5". The shells of both looked really weird. Almost like plastic. Both torts were in large outdoor pens almost every day, save for a few cold or rainy days in winter. I don't know what their soaking routine was, but their size and appearance were off-putting. This is just one case and I don't know all the details.
I'd sure be curious to see if anyone has tried this with fresh grass. Seems like it would be hard to prevent them from getting any weeds or other incidental foods in an outdoor pen.
I'd sure be curious to see if anyone has tried this with fresh grass. Seems like it would be hard to prevent them from getting any weeds or other incidental foods in an outdoor pen.
I think that would be closest to the wild.. probably better for them..
Laura said:
I'm not so sure about that. I don't think anyone has a definitive answer yet, but I've picked up two tidbits recently that make me think otherwise. A field researcher friend of my Gpp dealer told him that the main diet of wild hatchling leopards is mammal feces. I know is a different species entirely, but it doesn't seem that much of a stretch to me. During the rainy season for 3-4 months the older sulcatas eat all sorts of plants in addition to grass. My new friend from Senegal sent me some Hibiscus sabdariffa seeds and said that is one of the favorites of the wild sulcatas.
To date I have not met, nor heard of anybody who actually knows firsthand what a hatchling sulcata eats in the wild. That problem is currently being worked on in Senegal.
well that throws a rock in the loop!
I wonder if they dont est much at all.. and we totally over feed.
I wonder if they dont est much at all.. and we totally over feed.
Laura said:
Again, no one knows for sure but my best example to draw from is the ones in Senegal that are raised from babies in giant "naturalistic" pens with as little human interference as possible. They are not fed ever, and only eat the wild vegetation and grasses that grow in their enclosure. He showed us some pics of six year old subadults and not only were they the most perfect sulcatas I've ever seen, they were about the size that I would expect for a 6 year old here. I would estimate, just from looking at a few pics that they were 30-40 pounds.
I'm trying to get more info, pics and details to post on what really, verifiably happens in the wild, or at least in "wildish" conditions in their native land, but it is slow going. I'm waiting for a book to come called "The Crying Tortoise". I think there might be some good tidbits in there too.
I can't get away at the moment, but don't we have any young, adventurous types, with no kids, that wanna take a trip to Senegal? If we make it a research endeavor, maybe we could start a donation fund to help the person with the expenses for the trip. The main goal or questions for me would be, "What do they REALLY do in the wild? What is the climate like in a given average year? And ANY info about wild hatchlings."
Sorry Len, didn't mean to get off of your topic. I'll go start another thread on this.
The reason I was wondering about this is, I have tried the wet and warm system for a little over a year now and in my situation it doesn't seem to work for me or them, don't know why. Well anyway I raised Walker by the old standard of dry and warm and he turned out OK, a little pyramiding but not to bad. From what I see doing it the new way I am getting more pyramiding than the old way.I gave 3 of the 4 young sulcatas that I had away but I kept the smallest one.and I am going to raise him pretty much the way I did Walker and see what happens.I feel that to keep them wet they have to stay warmer than needed and it causes them to require more food and that may be my problem with the pyramiding.I have access to green grasses most of the winter and was thinking that I would feed just grass during that time and let him free graze during the warmer months when he can be outside for long periods. I have no idea what kind of grasses I have but they are green and tender and he loves them, I started switching him to the grass about a month ago, so now all he gets is several types of grass and cuttle bone.-As for drinking water I never saw Walker drink water until he was 6 years old and he was never soaked liked we do today.I did use overhead lights for heat but not as hot as everyone is using today, now I have a six inch piece of flexwatt under him and his temps run 87+ on bottom and 83+ on top when he is in his little wooden hide where he spends most of his time peeking out to see what is going on. I never fed Walker just grass because I didn't know how good it would be for him. Len
That's surprising Len. I wonder what is different with the way you do it vs. others? I still think it will be years before we really solve the pyramiding enigma fully.
With grass only, and all grown in the same soil, I would worry about possible nutrient or trace element deficiencies over the long term. I would think some occasional vitamin supplementation, or at least a little variety in the diet would reduce the chances of that.
With grass only, and all grown in the same soil, I would worry about possible nutrient or trace element deficiencies over the long term. I would think some occasional vitamin supplementation, or at least a little variety in the diet would reduce the chances of that.
I've been observing Climber and Eggroll eating feces...the pug's, not the other tortoises...my wife says when she puts the dog out, the younger torts follow him around...I only feed the pug quality dog food...plus he gets (at least) one steak bone a week...plus Trader Joe's dog biscuits...it's kinda funny, because the two larger babies have cut down on their Marion/Mazuri consumption and have picked up on eating more grass.
I have 5 dogs which makes it impossible to keep everything cleaned up all the time, Walker has never showed any interest in going poop hunting, but 2 of the dogs love to get into Walkers and spread it around for me.
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