Eastern or Western.

[Bow]

There's been some dispute as to Walters parentage, I don't really care either way but I'm a little curious. So any opinions?













It would be nice to be able to say either way instead of not being certain when people ask me.

 

[bubbles01]

Cant say - but he has beautiful markings!!

 

[dmarcus]

I will say Western because of the key hole shape on the rear of the carapace and the well defined carapacial markings. Photo's of the plastron would help with the determanition......

 

[Bow]

I tried but he was so unhappy about being flipped over that I couldn't get a picture with my IPad. It's pretty sold black though, I'll try to get one tomorrow after his bath. He's normally in a good mood after bath time.

 

[dmarcus]

I'm not sure if you saw this but here is a good thread started by HermanniChris...

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Western-Hermann-s-vs-Eastern-Hermann-s#axzz1jJIr3Tqe

 

[Bow]

I'm not sure if you saw this but here is a good thread started by HermanniChris...

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Western-Hermann-s-vs-Eastern-Hermann-s#axzz1jJIr3Tqe

I looked and I think he looks like a western but I was contradicted by a breeder ( not Walters breeder). Arguably the lady I got him from said western too. I figured others might know better.

 

[GBtortoises]

Based on the definite "indoor" growth of this tortoise, color contrast or body shape cannot be used as determining factors. While the keyhole pattern is one (of several) identifying features of Western Hermann's, Testudo hermanni hermanni, individuals of the Eastern subspecies, T. h. boettgeri and Dalmatian subpecies, T. h. hercegovinensis can also have this feature. In order to determine the subspecies of your tortoise other characteristics will also need to be identified. A clear photo of it's plastron also needs to be seen.
You can also refer to HermanniChris' very good subspecies descriptions in the Hermann's thread section here on TFO.

 

[Tom]

You don't need to flip him for a carapace shot. You can just hold him upright, head pointing toward the sky, and snap a pic that way.

 

[Bow]

I ended up getting Bryce to hold him like Tom suggested while I took the picture, he seemed to be less displeased then he normally is. Disregard Bryce's shirt...

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

View attachment 15470

I ended up getting Bryce to hold him like Tom suggested while I took the picture, he seemed to be less displeased then he normally is. Disregard Bryce's shirt...

Nice shirt!

BTW, might just be that angle, but Walter looks to be a Wanda or a Wendy!

 

[dmarcus]

I think you need to change her name also....

 

[GBtortoises]

The plastron view should be a straight on flat view emphasizing the lower body area to include a clear view of the tail and frontal leg area as well as the rest of the whole plastron.

Just throwing a "guess" at this point, but your Hermann's appears to be a Dalmatian, Testudo hermanni hercegovinensis or a Dalmatian/Eastern hybrid, T. h. hercegovinensis/boettgeri which are now very common in captivity. But that is just a guess based on the photos available. A clearer more detailed plastral photo should tell better.

 

[Bow]

Walter is still Walter. His tail is long but curls back over itself, like a pig tail almost. I can try to send more pictures once he's awake.

 

[Turtleswagg]

nice shirt lol

 

[Bow]

I hope it's at the right angle now.
His tail sort of "curls" back over itself, if I look really close the spur seems large, but he rarely has it uncurled. That's the most he ever really shows his tail, it's normally tucked back into his shell unless it's after bath time...

 

[kimber_lee_314]

I say a female Eastern, maybe a dalmatian hybrid (it's hard to see the inguinal scutes.)

 

[GBtortoises]

Your tortoise is a Dalmatian Hermann's, Testudo hermanni hercegovinensis.

Despite having what appears to be a thick tail, that's actually not normal growth for that size of Hermann's. Either the tip of tail was shorter than normal at birth or the tail around the clocal opening is swollen, something that is common in accelerated growth Hermann's. So, while it appears that your tortoise may be a male, based on the clocal opening and the shortened tail tip, it could actually be a female. Unless you have definitely seen your tortoise's male organ protruding, it may take about another inch or so of growth of your tortoise to know for certain.

 

[dmarcus]

I am in agreement with the fact that you have a Dalmation Hermanns and I'm sticking to the fact that you have a female unless like what GBtortoises said and you have seen the male parts sticking out....

 

[Bow]

Your tortoise is a Dalmatian Hermann's, Testudo hermanni hercegovinensis.

Despite having what appears to be a thick tail, that's actually not normal growth for that size of Hermann's. Either the tip of tail was shorter than normal at birth or the tail around the clocal opening is swollen, something that is common in accelerated growth Hermann's. So, while it appears that your tortoise may be a male, based on the clocal opening and the shortened tail tip, it could actually be a female. Unless you have definitely seen your tortoise's male organ protruding, it may take about another inch or so of growth of your tortoise to know for certain.

Thanks, I'm still calling him Walter until I know male or female for certain, I don't think he'll mind when I change his name, if I do. His clocal opening is swollen, it's actually shrunk by about half since I first got him, it also a lot less pink now too. I assumed he was just dehydrated, he was altogether rather shrively when I originally picked him up.

---

I am in agreement with the fact that you have a Dalmation Hermanns and I'm sticking to the fact that you have a female unless like what GBtortoises said and you have seen the male parts sticking out....

I'm not to worried about sexing him/her. I just like the name Walter. I am glad to know what he is though. Thanks!

 

[Turtleswagg]

so what kind of tortoise is that??