Dogs In Public?

[SinLA]

Maybe some of the Europeans here can correct me, but I seem to recall, at least maybe in England or France, that dogs are allowed in restaurants and it’s usually not a big deal. I’m not sure why it turned in a more restrictive direction here. I think we are more germ phobic than other countries. I thought the rules here stemmed from “cleanliness” concerns over anything else.

But then also, people are entitled a-$@/$! Who ruin things for good pet owners.

I remember being on a flight next to an adorable “service” dog (one of those emotional support dogs) who peed on the airplane as it left. Basically a spoiled rich 20something and now everyone else has either smell pee in that spot or have others clean it up (I’m sure the crew didnt even see it). And then people don’t trust genuine service dogs as legit… but there’s no way to catch everything like that in the act.

Fun fact I flew first class once so Sylvester would have more under the seat room and the fight attendant was horrendous to me. It was one of my worst flying experiences ever. My carrier allowed him to stick his head out and she went ballistic. He was a 15lb dog in a carrier who I paid for, not smuggled or something.

 

[Tom]

Interesting... Again we have a few bad apples spoiling the bunch, and the response, as usual, is to throw out the bunch, instead of throwing out the few bad ones.

And I want to say that Malinois dogs are extremely high strung and not for the novice keeper, but Tom's Malinois' are calm and quiet and very well trained...

Maggie, I'm aware that many people either don't like dogs, or don't want strange dogs coming up to them. I don't let my dogs approach anybody unless the person specifically invited them, and likewise I don't let anyone approach my dogs without my consent first. I wish more people were more responsible and considerate with their dogs. We see that it can work in other countries, and I wish that we could make it work here. I wish that I could magically make all dogs well behaved in public, and make all dog owners be courteous and considerate. I see a lot of smokers put in effort to keep their smoke out of the faces of others. I appreciate that when I see it, and thank them for trying. I wish more dog owners would make the same attempt. I see some that do, and some that don't. I jump all over the ones that don't because they make the rest of us look bad, and they make people like you, justifiably, want people to leave their dogs at home.

Sitting on set in my van with my dogs one day, I saw a lady come out of an apartment with her English bulldog, let it poop on the median between the sidewalk and the street, and then quickly walk away. Oh no... Not happening on my watch. I called out to her, "Hey lady, your dog dropped something." She kept walking, so I escalated," If you don't pick it up, I will, and I will return it to your door step and your car... without a bag..." She stopped dead in her tracks. Turned to face me with evil fire in her eyes, and when I stood unfazed, she came back and picked it up. I politely thanked her. You see, if she had left it, one way or another, I was going to have to pick it up because everyone would have incorrectly assumed that the guy with all the dogs in the big van had left it, and it looks bad for my whole business. I have picked up uncountable bags of other people's dog crap. Its one of the costs of being in my end of the business. When I go to work, I have "doggie bags" in each front pocket. No mess from no one's dog will be left behind in an area where I have worked.

@Ink and @KarenSoCal What do you think makes this work in Europe, but not as well in other countries like ours? Why are dogs in public tolerated better over there? Is it just cultural? Are they more tolerant? Is it better understood and observed that your dog in public is your own responsibility, and people take more care? I see things getting better here. Slowly but surely my dogs are allowed and tolerated in places that they didn't used to be. I try to set a good example, and I try to correct bad dog owner behavior in whatever way I perceive to be effective, either with diplomacy when possible or with hostility when necessary. Do people do that in Europe when a bad apple is trying to spoil their bunch?

 

[TammyJ]

Maybe some of the Europeans here can correct me, but I seem to recall, at least maybe in England or France, that dogs are allowed in restaurants and it’s usually not a big deal. I’m not sure why it turned in a more restrictive direction here. I think we are more germ phobic than other countries. I thought the rules here stemmed from “cleanliness” concerns over anything else.

But then also, people are entitled a-$@/$! Who ruin things for good pet owners.

I remember being on a flight next to an adorable “service” dog (one of those emotional support dogs) who peed on the airplane as it left. Basically a spoiled rich 20something and now everyone else has either smell pee in that spot or have others clean it up (I’m sure the crew didnt even see it). And then people don’t trust genuine service dogs as legit… but there’s no way to catch everything like that in the act.

Fun fact I flew first class once so Sylvester would have more under the seat room and the fight attendant was horrendous to me. It was one of my worst flying experiences ever. My carrier allowed him to stick his head out and she went ballistic. He was a 15lb dog in a carrier who I paid for, not smuggled or something.

View attachment 368375

Lol! Love his underbite.

 

[Tom]

Fun fact I flew first class once so Sylvester would have more under the seat room and the fight attendant was horrendous to me. It was one of my worst flying experiences ever. My carrier allowed him to stick his head out and she went ballistic. He was a 15lb dog in a carrier who I paid for, not smuggled or something.

I have heard of these "pet Nazi's", but I have yet to encounter one. My experience has been the opposite. People traveling with dogs in the cabin is still so infrequent that I find most of the staff doesn't know their own policies. We've been flying the Target dogs out of LAX for so long that almost everyone at the counter knows us and knows the deal. Coming home from almost everywhere, a supervisor or another counter person that knows what to do has to be called over. The staff on the plane is also often confused. When traveling with a service dog, it must be on the floor in front of you. When traveling with a celebrity dog, it must sit on the seat that has been purchased for it. I've had many stewards and stewardesses tell me the opposite, one way or the other. They guy that I used to work for drafted up the guidelines for "celebrity dog" travel, so I know what it says pretty well. I live by those guidelines. How those guidelines came about is another fun story, but I digress...

I wonder what happened on some previous flight to make that stewardess freak out like that?

 

[ryan57]

I wanted to ask what people's opinions are on dogs in public. Our own views are skewed by our own experiences. There is no right or wrong answer. Maybe a tortoise forum full of people who love pets isn't the most subjective place to get an answer, but this is what I've got since I really don't do any other type of social media.

I own a lot of dogs, and I like to take them with me just about everywhere I can. I enjoy their company. My job has me traveling all over the world, and my dogs ride in first class next to me after going through airport security lines and what not. "Celebrity" dogs is how we do this. It started with the Target dog back around the turn of the century, and now we do it with all of them because its easier, cheaper, and better in every way than trying to do it cargo anymore. If you've seen the recent trailer for "Aurthur the King", those are my dogs snarling in the alley. We flew from L.A. to Miami, and then from Miami to the Dominican Republic to film that.

Here are the Target dogs flying to do a commercial in NYC:
View attachment 368354

Here are the mals flying to GA to do the Walking Dead:
View attachment 368356
View attachment 368357

Here is the typical hotel sleeping arrangement:
View attachment 368358


So my view on this subject may be just a little biased. I may tend to see this issue a little differently than the norm. I don't mind well behaved dogs in public. I like seeing people with their dogs in stores, around town, just about anywhere. I really hate the places that are off-limits for dogs.

What is prompting this question is something that happened tonight. I took my wife to dinner and there was another party of four there, and one of the two couples had brought their small, well-behaved dog to the restaurant. The hostess politely explained the law to them, but they clearly didn't like it. I shook my head thinking that everyone knows you can't bring a dog into a restaurant, unless it is a service dog of course, so why did these people even try it? And why did they argue when the hostess told them the dog was not allowed? I had three dogs out in the car that I would have loved to bring in with me, but I knew not to.

But this begged a different question in my mind... As we walked to our table, I was bummed that their dog couldn't be with them. The dog was on a leash, quiet, well-adjusted, and causing no harm to anyone. I can understand not having dogs lick food off the table, or going potty in the restaurant, or being ill-mannered in any way, but why can't we have our dogs eat out with us? They eat with us at home. I have one dog that politely pulls up a chair and sits at the dinner table with us while we eat every night at home. He's perfectly behaved and knows his table manners well.

I know some people don't like dogs. So what? We all have to tolerate each other's idiosyncrasies. I have to tolerate stinky smokers, obnoxious children, grossly obese people, perfume and cologne, loud and obnoxious adults, rude and inconsiderate people, and a whole list of other things that I don't like. Is it really that much of an imposition to other people if there is a silent dog obediently laying or walking by my side?

My general question to anyone who cares to chime in is this: How do you feel about people taking their dogs into public places? I further question: Is our society/country too restrictive on this matter? Should we loosen up some of these laws and rules? Am I totally out of touch with reality because of my profession and the things I do with animals on a daily basis? I see the people bring their dogs into Home Depot, Walmart, Costco, Sam's Club, and other places, so I'm clearly not the only one...

Couple thoughts on this. There are people that enjoy rap music, smell like marajuana, wear baggy clothes and seem to "raise" pitbull terriers. Yeah, these types of individuals seem to ruin almost everything. If it weren't for these individuals that cannot say "ask" I would have no problem with encountering dogs like you mentioned above. Can you imagine the look and smell of the restroom at a fast food chicken establishment along an interstate if this were legal?

That said, I play outdoor events and festivals to an older wealthy crowd in PA and their dogs have never been a problem and seem to be enjoyed by all.

Unfortunately, why is there a law against car exhaust volume? Because people abuse this and have cars so loud and slow that you still hear them loudly when they have gone through 3 gears and are still 1/8 mile away.

Indoors, people have allergies to some dogs which isn't cool... same with perfume or cologne and smoke residue.

 

[Ink]

I think that in Europe they take their dogs out and get them socialized early. Also they spend more time with the dog. My dog would go for walks in the fields, while working dogs were herding the sheep. None were bothering each other. I have taken all my dogs to trainers. From Corgi, beagle, to many German shepherds. In Germany we asked the restaurant if we could bring our shepherd in, they said as long as they behave because we would be asked to leave otherwise.

 

[EppsDynasty]

WOW ........I think you may have your answer but here goes.
This may go a little out of the question, but I promise I'll bring it right back.
In my younger years my family and I were a Snake/Reptile rescue but really just tried to focus on large constrictors Boas, Pythons etc. Our Mission was education and we took that role VERY seriously. We would take animals such as a Yellow Anaconda to Home Depot or an Argentine Black and White Tegu to Walmart. This was EVERY trip, an animal rarely seen by the people in public right in front of their faces. This would always start up a conversation and we would pound the info to whoever ended up circled around us, kinda like you would see at a high school fight. Of course we were harassed by the Snake Scardies, or the store employees but it did not deter us, we had a mission ... Educate. Now our animals unlike dogs were probably not going to get loose, run off, bite someone or something of that nature but still "Not Allowed" like in Jamaica. As @wellington stated it is a Health Department rule. When the Grocery chain "Winco" first came to the the city we lived in at the time there were no "No Animals Allowed" signage anywhere. We understood the Health Department issues so we would not go grocery shopping with them. But if we needed Cigarettes or something they sold that was NOT a grocery item and NOT in the grocery aisles we took one of our animals. This happened dozens of times. One time a woman walked up to me there and started screaming at me "O my god how dirty, that disgusting thing should be killed." What she was referring to was one of our Red Tailed Boas that I had on my neck (8+ feet long for those of you wondering.) After she finished I told her "Your daughter (5-6 yrs. old standing next to her) is a lot more dirty than this snake" and "the only disgusting thing that's in the store is you." Of course this commotion prompted an employee to come see what in the heck was happening, this lady was furious, spitting while she yelled. The employee (once he realized what was on my neck was alive) stated very shaky and scared "you can't have that in here" I presented my argument of I was in here for cigarettes not groceries. He didn't care "Leave now...now" I simply replied calmly NO, not until I get my cigarettes and pointed out there was no signage stating animals were not allowed. We looked at each other then came "I'll have to call the police," go ahead I replied. I pointed out to the crowd now that the fear of snakes would not stop at the Police. "Call the cops, you think when they walk in here their going to touch me ..... Huh." Their gonna do the same as you stand 10 feet back and ASK me to leave, so give me my cigarettes and I'll leave." He did so as quite a few customers laughed, pointed at me and even some started clapping. A week or so later we went shopping there and there was signage EVERYWHERE in bold colors 'NO PETS ALLOWED'.
The point of this story was that I do believe the animals aren't the issue but the people. This might be like giving you @Tom A second grade spelling lesson, people simply do not know how to get their animals to do/behave like they want or should. People act as if they have nothing to do with why their dog is another's back yard, why their dog just bit the neighbor 5 streets over. I seriously think that the people are the issue but that signage ( You are to stupid to allow your pets to be here, or You are not smart enough to keep your pets behavior in check, Yes you can teach/train your pet to behave but until then THEIR NOT ALLOWED.) Ya get the point. As I believe we've said before the direction of society is allowing the ones who can't just get it to be the leaders of said direction. I think the only time I DO NOT want people taking their dogs with them is to my house. My house is my animals home and they do not like visitors, of the animal kind. I do not trust or even want to trust you to bring your animal to my house. As you Tom have said every dog owner says "Not my Dog" until they chew up the tortoise then it's as if they just saw an alien. "I just don't understand, he's never acted like that," that's because your dog has NEVER been in a situation like my house presents. Which is a absolute lack of teaching/training on the owners part. So to sum it up "You're just to stupid for us to trust your dog in here" is a sign that society would not be able to handle so we have "No pets allowed."

 

[Maggie3fan]

Interesting... Again we have a few bad apples spoiling the bunch, and the response, as usual, is to throw out the bunch, instead of throwing out the few bad ones.


Maggie, I'm aware that many people either don't like dogs, or don't want strange dogs coming up to them. I don't let my dogs approach anybody unless the person specifically invited them, and likewise I don't let anyone approach my dogs without my consent first. I wish more people were more responsible and considerate with their dogs. We see that it can work in other countries, and I wish that we could make it work here. I wish that I could magically make all dogs well behaved in public, and make all dog owners be courteous and considerate. I see a lot of smokers put in effort to keep their smoke out of the faces of others. I appreciate that when I see it, and thank them for trying. I wish more dog owners would make the same attempt. I see some that do, and some that don't. I jump all over the ones that don't because they make the rest of us look bad, and they make people like you, justifiably, want people to leave their dogs at home.

Sitting on set in my van with my dogs one day, I saw a lady come out of an apartment with her English bulldog, let it poop on the median between the sidewalk and the street, and then quickly walk away. Oh no... Not happening on my watch. I called out to her, "Hey lady, your dog dropped something." She kept walking, so I escalated," If you don't pick it up, I will, and I will return it to your door step and your car... without a bag..." She stopped dead in her tracks. Turned to face me with evil fire in her eyes, and when I stood unfazed, she came back and picked it up. I politely thanked her. You see, if she had left it, one way or another, I was going to have to pick it up because everyone would have incorrectly assumed that the guy with all the dogs in the big van had left it, and it looks bad for my whole business. I have picked up uncountable bags of other people's dog crap. Its one of the costs of being in my end of the business. When I go to work, I have "doggie bags" in each front pocket. No mess from no one's dog will be left behind in an area where I have worked.

@Ink and @KarenSoCal What do you think makes this work in Europe, but not as well in other countries like ours? Why are dogs in public tolerated better over there? Is it just cultural? Are they more tolerant? Is it better understood and observed that your dog in public is your own responsibility, and people take more care? I see things getting better here. Slowly but surely my dogs are allowed and tolerated in places that they didn't used to be. I try to set a good example, and I try to correct bad dog owner behavior in whatever way I perceive to be effective, either with diplomacy when possible or with hostility when necessary. Do people do that in Europe when a bad apple is trying to spoil their bunch?

Tom...having actually seen you with your dogs I would never say that your dogs were undisciplined or ill trained or ugly even. There is not a person here or in my personal life who would tell you I ever said anything bad about your dogs...I was very impressed with your demo with a GSD and several other incidents... Mainly I was talking about the dog walkers in my private life...and I was trying to get across that for some people dogs are very scary. Strange dogs coming up to me seriously causes fear. I stopped going to our Saturday market because of so many dogs...and yep, they are all at the end of the leash and their keeper is not paying attention...and because the leashes are so long there is no way around them. I used to keep GSD and I trained obedience for a number of years. There is no reason for me to fear dogs, but in my old age I do...I really think that so many dog keepers think their dog is the best, prettiest or funniest, so they simply cannot conceive of the thought that I think your dog stinks, has rotten teeth and drools, is obese and just plain unhealthy and ugly. I hope you weren't saying that "I" was the rotten apple...my dog opinion matters just like yours....

 

[Tom]

I think that in Europe they take their dogs out and get them socialized early. Also they spend more time with the dog. My dog would go for walks in the fields, while working dogs were herding the sheep. None were bothering each other.

This is exactly what I do. Perhaps THIS is why I long for a dog society more like theirs, and other people who don't do these things, don't see it my way.

Me and my co-workers are raising four puppies right now. We take them everywhere, every day and we are socializing the heck out of them and teaching them how to function in society. We take them to the country, to the suburbs, and to the busiest parts of the inner city. Indoors, outdoors, everywhere. They meet anyone and everyone that wants to meet them, and they get petted and receive food treats from total strangers. Everyone is their friend. They will grow up to be well adjusted, well socialized, well behaved dogs like what you saw in Europe. Few dogs in the world get the attention and professional training time put into them like ours do. Military and police dogs, private security and bomb detection dogs, guide or other service dogs... can't think of any others. Our dogs are with us all day every day, almost everywhere we go.

 

[Tom]

Tom...having actually seen you with your dogs I would never say that your dogs were undisciplined or ill trained or ugly even. There is not a person here or in my personal life who would tell you I ever said anything bad about your dogs...I was very impressed with your demo with a GSD and several other incidents... Mainly I was talking about the dog walkers in my private life...and I was trying to get across that for some people dogs are very scary. Strange dogs coming up to me seriously causes fear. I stopped going to our Saturday market because of so many dogs...and yep, they are all at the end of the leash and their keeper is not paying attention...and because the leashes are so long there is no way around them. I used to keep GSD and I trained obedience for a number of years. There is no reason for me to fear dogs, but in my old age I do...I really think that so many dog keepers think their dog is the best, prettiest or funniest, so they simply cannot conceive of the thought that I think your dog stinks, has rotten teeth and drools, is obese and just plain unhealthy and ugly. I hope you weren't saying that "I" was the rotten apple...my dog opinion matters just like yours....

Not at all Maggie. I totally understood what you were saying. The bad apples are the irresponsible and horribly inconsiderate people that you are complaining about. Your complaints are totally justified and sensible. I want people to like dogs, or at least tolerate them in public better, so I constantly work to "correct" the bad behavior of these horrible dogs owners that you described.

 

[Yvonne G]

Couple thoughts on this. There are people that enjoy rap music, smell like marajuana, wear baggy clothes and seem to "raise" pitbull terriers. Yeah, these types of individuals seem to ruin almost everything. If it weren't for these individuals that cannot say "ask" I would have no problem with encountering dogs like you mentioned above. Can you imagine the look and smell of the restroom at a fast food chicken establishment along an interstate if this were legal?

That said, I play outdoor events and festivals to an older wealthy crowd in PA and their dogs have never been a problem and seem to be enjoyed by all.

Unfortunately, why is there a law against car exhaust volume? Because people abuse this and have cars so loud and slow that you still hear them loudly when they have gone through 3 gears and are still 1/8 mile away.

Indoors, people have allergies to some dogs which isn't cool... same with perfume or cologne and smoke residue.

Oh man. . . you're describing my sister! But she hates dogs, so it's not her (Sorry Maggie!) And besides the things you described about her, we both have twin pipes and mufflers on our vehicles.

 

[Tom]

WOW ........I think you may have your answer but here goes.
This may go a little out of the question, but I promise I'll bring it right back.
In my younger years my family and I were a Snake/Reptile rescue but really just tried to focus on large constrictors Boas, Pythons etc. Our Mission was education and we took that role VERY seriously. We would take animals such as a Yellow Anaconda to Home Depot or an Argentine Black and White Tegu to Walmart. This was EVERY trip, an animal rarely seen by the people in public right in front of their faces. This would always start up a conversation and we would pound the info to whoever ended up circled around us, kinda like you would see at a high school fight. Of course we were harassed by the Snake Scardies, or the store employees but it did not deter us, we had a mission ... Educate. Now our animals unlike dogs were probably not going to get loose, run off, bite someone or something of that nature but still "Not Allowed" like in Jamaica. As @wellington stated it is a Health Department rule. When the Grocery chain "Winco" first came to the the city we lived in at the time there were no "No Animals Allowed" signage anywhere. We understood the Health Department issues so we would not go grocery shopping with them. But if we needed Cigarettes or something they sold that was NOT a grocery item and NOT in the grocery aisles we took one of our animals. This happened dozens of times. One time a woman walked up to me there and started screaming at me "O my god how dirty, that disgusting thing should be killed." What she was referring to was one of our Red Tailed Boas that I had on my neck (8+ feet long for those of you wondering.) After she finished I told her "Your daughter (5-6 yrs. old standing next to her) is a lot more dirty than this snake" and "the only disgusting thing that's in the store is you." Of course this commotion prompted an employee to come see what in the heck was happening, this lady was furious, spitting while she yelled. The employee (once he realized what was on my neck was alive) stated very shaky and scared "you can't have that in here" I presented my argument of I was in here for cigarettes not groceries. He didn't care "Leave now...now" I simply replied calmly NO, not until I get my cigarettes and pointed out there was no signage stating animals were not allowed. We looked at each other then came "I'll have to call the police," go ahead I replied. I pointed out to the crowd now that the fear of snakes would not stop at the Police. "Call the cops, you think when they walk in here their going to touch me ..... Huh." Their gonna do the same as you stand 10 feet back and ASK me to leave, so give me my cigarettes and I'll leave." He did so as quite a few customers laughed, pointed at me and even some started clapping. A week or so later we went shopping there and there was signage EVERYWHERE in bold colors 'NO PETS ALLOWED'.
The point of this story was that I do believe the animals aren't the issue but the people. This might be like giving you @Tom A second grade spelling lesson, people simply do not know how to get their animals to do/behave like they want or should. People act as if they have nothing to do with why their dog is another's back yard, why their dog just bit the neighbor 5 streets over. I seriously think that the people are the issue but that signage ( You are to stupid to allow your pets to be here, or You are not smart enough to keep your pets behavior in check, Yes you can teach/train your pet to behave but until then THEIR NOT ALLOWED.) Ya get the point. As I believe we've said before the direction of society is allowing the ones who can't just get it to be the leaders of said direction. I think the only time I DO NOT want people taking their dogs with them is to my house. My house is my animals home and they do not like visitors, of the animal kind. I do not trust or even want to trust you to bring your animal to my house. As you Tom have said every dog owner says "Not my Dog" until they chew up the tortoise then it's as if they just saw an alien. "I just don't understand, he's never acted like that," that's because your dog has NEVER been in a situation like my house presents. Which is a absolute lack of teaching/training on the owners part. So to sum it up "You're just to stupid for us to trust your dog in here" is a sign that society would not be able to handle so we have "No pets allowed."

Well said. Summed up nicely. Like you, I would really prefer the more accurate sign:

"You're just to stupid for us to trust your dog in here"

People, as usual, are the problem. Not the animals. This reminds me of one of my common quips when working with a private client and their dog is either misbehaving, or not doing what they want it to. I ask, "If the leash were I my hands would this problem be happening?" After a short thoughtful pause, the answer is "no" 100% of the time. The dog is not the problem.

 

[TammyJ]

It's a "Dog Day Afternoon"😄!

 

[Tom]

WOW ........I think you may have your answer but here goes.
This may go a little out of the question, but I promise I'll bring it right back.
In my younger years my family and I were a Snake/Reptile rescue but really just tried to focus on large constrictors Boas, Pythons etc. Our Mission was education and we took that role VERY seriously. We would take animals such as a Yellow Anaconda to Home Depot or an Argentine Black and White Tegu to Walmart. This was EVERY trip, an animal rarely seen by the people in public right in front of their faces. This would always start up a conversation and we would pound the info to whoever ended up circled around us, kinda like you would see at a high school fight. Of course we were harassed by the Snake Scardies, or the store employees but it did not deter us, we had a mission ... Educate. Now our animals unlike dogs were probably not going to get loose, run off, bite someone or something of that nature but still "Not Allowed" like in Jamaica. As @wellington stated it is a Health Department rule. When the Grocery chain "Winco" first came to the the city we lived in at the time there were no "No Animals Allowed" signage anywhere. We understood the Health Department issues so we would not go grocery shopping with them. But if we needed Cigarettes or something they sold that was NOT a grocery item and NOT in the grocery aisles we took one of our animals. This happened dozens of times. One time a woman walked up to me there and started screaming at me "O my god how dirty, that disgusting thing should be killed." What she was referring to was one of our Red Tailed Boas that I had on my neck (8+ feet long for those of you wondering.) After she finished I told her "Your daughter (5-6 yrs. old standing next to her) is a lot more dirty than this snake" and "the only disgusting thing that's in the store is you." Of course this commotion prompted an employee to come see what in the heck was happening, this lady was furious, spitting while she yelled. The employee (once he realized what was on my neck was alive) stated very shaky and scared "you can't have that in here" I presented my argument of I was in here for cigarettes not groceries. He didn't care "Leave now...now" I simply replied calmly NO, not until I get my cigarettes and pointed out there was no signage stating animals were not allowed. We looked at each other then came "I'll have to call the police," go ahead I replied. I pointed out to the crowd now that the fear of snakes would not stop at the Police. "Call the cops, you think when they walk in here their going to touch me ..... Huh." Their gonna do the same as you stand 10 feet back and ASK me to leave, so give me my cigarettes and I'll leave." He did so as quite a few customers laughed, pointed at me and even some started clapping. A week or so later we went shopping there and there was signage EVERYWHERE in bold colors 'NO PETS ALLOWED'.
The point of this story was that I do believe the animals aren't the issue but the people. This might be like giving you @Tom A second grade spelling lesson, people simply do not know how to get their animals to do/behave like they want or should. People act as if they have nothing to do with why their dog is another's back yard, why their dog just bit the neighbor 5 streets over. I seriously think that the people are the issue but that signage ( You are to stupid to allow your pets to be here, or You are not smart enough to keep your pets behavior in check, Yes you can teach/train your pet to behave but until then THEIR NOT ALLOWED.) Ya get the point. As I believe we've said before the direction of society is allowing the ones who can't just get it to be the leaders of said direction. I think the only time I DO NOT want people taking their dogs with them is to my house. My house is my animals home and they do not like visitors, of the animal kind. I do not trust or even want to trust you to bring your animal to my house. As you Tom have said every dog owner says "Not my Dog" until they chew up the tortoise then it's as if they just saw an alien. "I just don't understand, he's never acted like that," that's because your dog has NEVER been in a situation like my house presents. Which is a absolute lack of teaching/training on the owners part. So to sum it up "You're just to stupid for us to trust your dog in here" is a sign that society would not be able to handle so we have "No pets allowed."

Your post gave me an idea. A way to separate the stupid people from the responsible people who are doing it right and being respectful of those around them. They have a "canine good citizen" test. I hate bringing in law-makers, so ideally there would be a universal understanding that if your dog had passed a CGC test you could have a card on the collar or around the human's neck, or some sort of a vest on the dog (NOT a service dog vest), that would clearly indicate to anyone who cared that this dog and owner are NOT one of the A-holes we've been talking about here in this thread that ruin it for everyone. The "license" would remain cheap and relatively easy to get, and the standards for passing should be reasonable, but always adhered to to maintain the integrity of the license. We do this for SCUBA diving. There is no "law" that says what must be done. The industry got together and set its own standards before the law-makers could get involved and ruin the whole thing. We could institute a country wide "good dog" certification, and people who take the time to learn proper etiquette and train their dog to behave, can get a pass for their dog and be afforded certain privileges that the inconsiderate heathens would not be allowed.

I think most people would not go through the time, trouble and expense to get their dog "certified", and the ones who are motivated to do so, like me, would be able to go where we wanted to go with our well behaved dogs. The best of both worlds. Keep out the riff-raff, and allow the good ones.

 

[Ink]

Your post gave me an idea. A way to separate the stupid people from the responsible people who are doing it right and being respectful of those around them. They have a "canine good citizen" test. I hate bringing in law-makers, so ideally there would be a universal understanding that if your dog had passed a CGC test you could have a card on the collar or around the human's neck, or some sort of a vest on the dog (NOT a service dog vest), that would clearly indicate to anyone who cared that this dog and owner are NOT one of the A-holes we've been talking about here in this thread that ruin it for everyone. The "license" would remain cheap and relatively easy to get, and the standards for passing should be reasonable, but always adhered to to maintain the integrity of the license. We do this for SCUBA diving. There is no "law" that says what must be done. The industry got together and set its own standards before the law-makers could get involved and ruin the whole thing. We could institute a country wide "good dog" certification, and people who take the time to learn proper etiquette and train their dog to behave, can get a pass for their dog and be afforded certain privileges that the inconsiderate heathens would not be allowed.

I think most people would not go through the time, trouble and expense to get their dog "certified", and the ones who are motivated to do so, like me, would be able to go where we wanted to go with our well behaved dogs. The best of both worlds. Keep out the riff-raff, and allow the good ones.

I had 3 dogs with canine good citizens, one advanced CGC and 2 therapy certified dogs. Both would go to school, sit with kids while they would read them books. However one lady has 1 therapy dog and would switch out her non certified other crazy dogs to reading class. So irritating. I asked her why she did that and she said it's fine the kids are good. However her dogs irritated my German shepherd.

My neighbor has a "service dog" online purchase paperwork only . That's annoying

 

[Megatron's Mom]

Sadly here ppl have ruined it for me with their dogs. So again it is the ppl not the dogs fault. I love my dogs but they stay home.

Some ppl around here think they can bring their dogs into stores let them pee/poo all over the place and they leave it. This happens in Walmart, Kroger, Costco, HD, Lowes you name it. All sorts or places. It's is not very often but it happens enough. Now the ones that really **** me off is the stores with food. I've seen dogs dart all over/ jumping on ppl, the owners can't control them or just can't be bothered, barking or trying to attack another dog they see. Ppl don't care and they know that the stores can't ask them to leave because I'm told it is against the law to ask because they cannot be asked if they have a service animal. So it continues over and over and will get worse as this sense of entitlement continues.

 

[ryan57]

Oh man. . . you're describing my sister! But she hates dogs, so it's not her (Sorry Maggie!) And besides the things you described about her, we both have twin pipes and mufflers on our vehicles.

Our 360 Modena has a tubi exhaust that is semi loud but you don't hear it for long and it's not annoying... The Mercedes SLK, 2022 Mustang (0-60 just under 3) and Lincoln continental are quiet. Expedition has headers and exhaust -w- a new engine -w- 9,000 miles but it's a truck (for getting sulcata supplies) so...

My next door neighbor has 3 boys that can drive and they have a Tesla plaid. Will smoke most everything so at this point it's what you like. That thing is more like a modern rollercoaster... Top Fuel now...0-366mph in <4 seconds, that's doing something. One day I would like to take a pass -w- a vehicle that has no oil and uses the fuel only for lube.

 

[EppsDynasty]

Your post gave me an idea. A way to separate the stupid people from the responsible people who are doing it right and being respectful of those around them. They have a "canine good citizen" test. I hate bringing in law-makers, so ideally there would be a universal understanding that if your dog had passed a CGC test you could have a card on the collar or around the human's neck, or some sort of a vest on the dog (NOT a service dog vest), that would clearly indicate to anyone who cared that this dog and owner are NOT one of the A-holes we've been talking about here in this thread that ruin it for everyone. The "license" would remain cheap and relatively easy to get, and the standards for passing should be reasonable, but always adhered to to maintain the integrity of the license. We do this for SCUBA diving. There is no "law" that says what must be done. The industry got together and set its own standards before the law-makers could get involved and ruin the whole thing. We could institute a country wide "good dog" certification, and people who take the time to learn proper etiquette and train their dog to behave, can get a pass for their dog and be afforded certain privileges that the inconsiderate heathens would not be allowed.

I think most people would not go through the time, trouble and expense to get their dog "certified", and the ones who are motivated to do so, like me, would be able to go where we wanted to go with our well behaved dogs. The best of both worlds. Keep out the riff-raff, and allow the good ones.

Glad I could help
and I Absolutely agree and am on board, When is the first So Cal board meeting to lay out standards?

 

[wellington]

This is exactly what I do. Perhaps THIS is why I long for a dog society more like theirs, and other people who don't do these things, don't see it my way.

Me and my co-workers are raising four puppies right now. We take them everywhere, every day and we are socializing the heck out of them and teaching them how to function in society. We take them to the country, to the suburbs, and to the busiest parts of the inner city. Indoors, outdoors, everywhere. They meet anyone and everyone that wants to meet them, and they get petted and receive food treats from total strangers. Everyone is their friend. They will grow up to be well adjusted, well socialized, well behaved dogs like what you saw in Europe. Few dogs in the world get the attention and professional training time put into them like ours do. Military and police dogs, private security and bomb detection dogs, guide or other service dogs... can't think of any others. Our dogs are with us all day every day, almost everywhere we go.

Most people don't have that kind of job to spend that much time with their dogs. The real world sends people away from their kids and pets for at least 8 hours a day and then some when counting travel time. The real world, don't have well trained dogs.

 

[Tom]

Most people don't have that kind of job to spend that much time with their dogs. The real world sends people away from their kids and pets for at least 8 hours a day and then some when counting travel time. The real world, don't have well trained dogs.

That is true, but some do put the time in when they can, and more could if their dogs were allowed in more places or could go to work with them. I've been to quite a few business where the employees can bring their dogs to work daily. I didn't see any problems at any of these places. If there were people who didn't like it, they sure hid it well.