does redfood need company?

[terryo]

So I'll say this:

[ IF ] Ignorance is not knowing.. stupidity is defending it.

Some keepers choose to be educated.. some choose to be stupid. And it's obvious which is which.

I hope you didn't mean me, Terry. This post was intended as a question, for my learning benefit.

Thanks for all the replies to my question. If you read my post, you would see that I said that I was only keeping them together until the summer when Pio goes outside. The Three Toed, I will put out (under my supervision) for a little bit during the day to get some sun. In my opinion, she is too small to go out alone all summer. Also I know they can't be together, since one will get much bigger than the other.....etc. This is only for the hatchling stage. The reason I asked was to learn, which I am always willing to, as this is my first tortoise.
That being said, I am not new to boxies, as my oldest Eastern, is over 50 years. I got him when I was a kid and raised him, and he lived in my parents yard for as long as I can remember. My sister lives there now and he is still there. He never was sick. My own Ornate, is in her 30's, and is still doing great and lives outside in a pen.
My oldest water turtle is over 21, and now lives in my sisters pond, as I converted my big pond into a Koi pond. So, you can see, I am not too new to the turtle world.
What does confuse me, is that on other forums, some never said this was a bad thing, and I was also told that my three toed and cherry head looked flawless. Also it was not such a bad thing to keep them together, as some people do this when the requirements are the same.
Maybe it's like the UVB question....do you need it or don't you. On another forum, there was a thread a mile long about that.
Thank you all for the replies.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

So I'll say this:

[ IF ] Ignorance is not knowing.. stupidity is defending it.

Some keepers choose to be educated.. some choose to be stupid. And it's obvious which is which.

I hope you didn't mean me, Terry. This post was intended as a question, for my learning benefit.

Thanks for all the replies to my question. If you read my post, you would see that I said that I was only keeping them together until the summer when Pio goes outside. The Three Toed, I will put out (under my supervision) for a little bit during the day to get some sun. In my opinion, she is too small to go out alone all summer. Also I know they can't be together, since one will get much bigger than the other.....etc. This is only for the hatchling stage. The reason I asked was to learn, which I am always willing to, as this is my first tortoise.
That being said, I am not new to boxies, as my oldest Eastern, is over 50 years. I got him when I was a kid and raised him, and he lived in my parents yard for as long as I can remember. My sister lives there now and he is still there. He never was sick. My own Ornate, is in her 30's, and is still doing great and lives outside in a pen.
My oldest water turtle is over 21, and now lives in my sisters pond, as I converted my big pond into a Koi pond. So, you can see, I am not too new to the turtle world.
What does confuse me, is that on other forums, some never said this was a bad thing, and I was also told that my three toed and cherry head looked flawless. Also it was not such a bad thing to keep them together, as some people do this when the requirements are the same.
Maybe it's like the UVB question....do you need it or don't you. On another forum, there was a thread a mile long about that.
Thank you all for the replies.

Terry you just justified why you are doing what you are doing! And you'll believe what you want to believe. That's why anyone "surfs" the forums until they find one that tells them what they want to hear.

So.... I hope you didn't mean me, Terry. This post was intended as a question, for my learning benefit.
... Terry you've had those [ on this forum ] that keep virtually every 'species' known tell you that "mixing" species is WRONG! We're waiting to hear you tell us that you have now seperated and will never again house together.. different species! [ age has nothing to do with anything! ]

Well.. have you learned?

Nerd

 

[Jacqui]

Yes in a way it is like the UV question or hibernation or just about anything that has to do with tortoises. There is no one thing written in stone, that you can't find somebody who has broken the rule and gotten lucky that their animal had no noticeable problems with it. The key is often the noticeable part.

I think too many of us have either had or known folks that had the bad outcomes and want to spare every tortoise keeper and their charges from the experiences. Often we write these posts more for the other folks who may be thinking of doing the same thing, not so much for the person who has already done it.

As I said in my post, they are your animals, you have the finial say in how they will be cared for.

 

[-EJ]

I don't think any reptile needs company but the interaction of more than one animal can add another dimension to the mix.

As to the mixing of species... They're your animals... I don't care if you mix em... use em as bait... or eat em.

If you don't want to be criticised about the practice... don't advertise it.

Is it wrong to mix species... I don't think so. Some folks seem to think that each species has their own individual set of parasites. They are kind of right because there are parasites that are species specific. There are also some species that seem to deal better with parasites than others. If you are dealing with captive born and raised animals this is a moot point. If you quarentine and treat the animals involved... it is also a moot point.

There can be added risks in keeping different species together... again... it's the keepers choice. I don't see how this can be considered cruel if the animals are fairing well.

I could never understand why it is acceptable to mix water turtles and not tortoises...

There are two species on that log and I know there are at least 5 different species in that pond.
There are species I mix and there are species I don't mix... it all depends on each individual situation.

 

[Yvonne G]

I don't think any reptile needs company but the interaction of more than one animal can add another dimension to the mix.
There are species I mix and there are species I don't mix... it all

Hi Ed: I wondered why you were being so quiet on this subject. We've had many a discussion about it!!

Yvonne

 

[Yvonne G]

I don't think any reptile needs company but the interaction of more than one animal can add another dimension to the mix.
There are species I mix and there are species I don't mix... it all

Hi Ed: I wondered why you were being so quiet on this subject. We've had many a discussion about it!!

Yvonne

I forgot to mention that the water turtles in that pond all come from the same continent. We were talking about not mixing species from different continents.

Yvonne

 

[Yvonne G]

Sometimes when you have one baby and he doesn't eat and doesn't seem to be doing well, adding another baby to the habitat will make him perk up and do better. I think its the old competition-for-the-food thing.

But tortoises are solitary animals and really don't require another tortoise to keep them company. They don't want to have to share the best hiding place or share their food. There are some tortoises that seem to get along with having more of the same in their pen, and there are some the are just downright mean to another tortoise. It is very possible to keep more than one tortoise together in the same pen, but is it necessary? No.

Yvonne

 

[-EJ]

Why would that make a difference. The Leopard and the boxie is not native to the UK. Actually... if you think about it... that's the ideal situation to mix species.

Again... don't loose the point. I'm not advocating mixing species. For the most part I don't think it is a good idea but at the same time I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with it.

People created the concept of species... people like to pigeon hole items...

It's my opinion that there is nothing wrong with the practice under certain circumstances.

I don't think any reptile needs company but the interaction of more than one animal can add another dimension to the mix.
There are species I mix and there are species I don't mix... it all

Hi Ed: I wondered why you were being so quiet on this subject. We've had many a discussion about it!!

Yvonne

I forgot to mention that the water turtles in that pond all come from the same continent. We were talking about not mixing species from different continents.

Yvonne

 

[janiedough]

Percy played with a yellow lab and a miniature bulldog the other day - under my supervision. He was trying to eat their tennis ball and they sat back and watched him with their heads titled until I took it away from him - he was actually making progress on eating the yellow fuzz.

I think my tortoise has FICA.

 

[-EJ]

That is soooooooo wrong... even I have limits as to mixing species... wait... no I don't... I never have to pick up after my Rottie... if you know what I mean.

Ed

Percy played with a yellow lab and a miniature bulldog the other day - under my supervision. He was trying to eat their tennis ball and they sat back and watched him with their heads titled until I took it away from him - he was actually making progress on eating the yellow fuzz.

I think my tortoise has FICA.

 

[Itort]

So I'll say this:

[ IF ] Ignorance is not knowing.. stupidity is defending it.

Some keepers choose to be educated.. some choose to be stupid. And it's obvious which is which.

I hope you didn't mean me, Terry. This post was intended as a question, for my learning benefit.

Thanks for all the replies to my question. If you read my post, you would see that I said that I was only keeping them together until the summer when Pio goes outside. The Three Toed, I will put out (under my supervision) for a little bit during the day to get some sun. In my opinion, she is too small to go out alone all summer. Also I know they can't be together, since one will get much bigger than the other.....etc. This is only for the hatchling stage. The reason I asked was to learn, which I am always willing to, as this is my first tortoise.
That being said, I am not new to boxies, as my oldest Eastern, is over 50 years. I got him when I was a kid and raised him, and he lived in my parents yard for as long as I can remember. My sister lives there now and he is still there. He never was sick. My own Ornate, is in her 30's, and is still doing great and lives outside in a pen.
My oldest water turtle is over 21, and now lives in my sisters pond, as I converted my big pond into a Koi pond. So, you can see, I am not too new to the turtle world.
What does confuse me, is that on other forums, some never said this was a bad thing, and I was also told that my three toed and cherry head looked flawless. Also it was not such a bad thing to keep them together, as some people do this when the requirements are the same.
Maybe it's like the UVB question....do you need it or don't you. On another forum, there was a thread a mile long about that.
Thank you all for the replies.

Terry you just justified why you are doing what you are doing! And you'll believe what you want to believe. That's why anyone "surfs" the forums until they find one that tells them what they want to hear.

So.... I hope you didn't mean me, Terry. This post was intended as a question, for my learning benefit.
... Terry you've had those [ on this forum ] that keep virtually every 'species' known tell you that "mixing" species is WRONG! We're waiting to hear you tell us that you have now seperated and will never again house together.. different species! [ age has nothing to do with anything! ]

Well.. have you learned?

Nerd

Here are some other thoughts on this subject: www.chelonia.org/Articles/nine_rules.htm www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/companions.html www.tortoisetrust.org/care/faq.html www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/vivarium.htm www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/disease.html

 

[-EJ]

Those are groups which have a very limited scope. All of them I've been banned from... As you all can see... I'm a very nasty disruptive person...

But then again... maybe they only present what THEY want you to read.

Theirs is only one point of view.

Don't get me wrong... their way is a kind of purist point of view which I will not say is wrong. I will say it is extreme. I will also say that a good number of them are hypocrites... and leave it at that.

Why should I or anyone dictate what another keeper should do with their tortoise. A suggestion is one thing... dictation is another.

Back to the point at hand... this person is keeping these very nice looking animals together without any problems. Some others who are questioning the practice might want to turn to this person and ask how he's pulled it off although it is a relatively short time.

My Aldabs and Sulcatas have been together for about 4 years now. I don't intend to seperate for quite a few years more... if at all... why should I?

Ed

So I'll say this:

[ IF ] Ignorance is not knowing.. stupidity is defending it.

Some keepers choose to be educated.. some choose to be stupid. And it's obvious which is which.

I hope you didn't mean me, Terry. This post was intended as a question, for my learning benefit.

Thanks for all the replies to my question. If you read my post, you would see that I said that I was only keeping them together until the summer when Pio goes outside. The Three Toed, I will put out (under my supervision) for a little bit during the day to get some sun. In my opinion, she is too small to go out alone all summer. Also I know they can't be together, since one will get much bigger than the other.....etc. This is only for the hatchling stage. The reason I asked was to learn, which I am always willing to, as this is my first tortoise.
That being said, I am not new to boxies, as my oldest Eastern, is over 50 years. I got him when I was a kid and raised him, and he lived in my parents yard for as long as I can remember. My sister lives there now and he is still there. He never was sick. My own Ornate, is in her 30's, and is still doing great and lives outside in a pen.
My oldest water turtle is over 21, and now lives in my sisters pond, as I converted my big pond into a Koi pond. So, you can see, I am not too new to the turtle world.
What does confuse me, is that on other forums, some never said this was a bad thing, and I was also told that my three toed and cherry head looked flawless. Also it was not such a bad thing to keep them together, as some people do this when the requirements are the same.
Maybe it's like the UVB question....do you need it or don't you. On another forum, there was a thread a mile long about that.
Thank you all for the replies.

Terry you just justified why you are doing what you are doing! And you'll believe what you want to believe. That's why anyone "surfs" the forums until they find one that tells them what they want to hear.

So.... I hope you didn't mean me, Terry. This post was intended as a question, for my learning benefit.
... Terry you've had those [ on this forum ] that keep virtually every 'species' known tell you that "mixing" species is WRONG! We're waiting to hear you tell us that you have now seperated and will never again house together.. different species! [ age has nothing to do with anything! ]

Well.. have you learned?

Nerd

Here are some other thoughts on this subject: www.chelonia.org/Articles/nine_rules.htm www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/companions.html www.tortoisetrust.org/care/faq.html www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/vivarium.htm www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/disease.html

 

[Itort]

Ed, what I am trying to point out are some basic prodicals of animal husbandry. You do agree that a quarantine period is required for new additions, correct. What I saying is simply the risks of combining species is a risk. I show and raise both cats and dogs and base my husbandry on these. No one handles these animals without first disinfecting themselves because the risk of crosscontaination. Me neighbor raises hogs and you do not enter his confinement without a cleansuit. I have and do raise both chickens and turkeys for meat and the birds never have any contact at all because of this risk. My vet raises several species of snakes and the don't have contact. These are the sources I base my husbandry on. I beleive they desire nothing less.

 

[-EJ]

Yours is one opinion... mine is another.

I have the problem with... don't do it... it's a 'control' issue kind of thing.

Ed

Ed, what I am trying to point out are some basic prodicals of animal husbandry. You do agree that a quarantine period is required for new additions, correct. What I saying is simply the risks of combining species is a risk. I show and raise both cats and dogs and base my husbandry on these. No one handles these animals without first disinfecting themselves because the risk of crosscontaination. Me neighbor raises hogs and you do not enter his confinement without a cleansuit. I have and do raise both chickens and turkeys for meat and the birds never have any contact at all because of this risk. My vet raises several species of snakes and the don't have contact. These are the sources I base my husbandry on. I beleive they desire nothing less.

 

[Redfootedboxturtles]

EJ you let your tortoises eat the dog poop?

 

[Yvonne G]

Why would that make a difference. The Leopard and the boxie is not native to the UK. Actually... if you think about it... that's the ideal situation to mix species.

Again... don't loose the point. I'm not advocating mixing species. For the most part I don't think it is a good idea but at the same time I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with it.

Now that is a VERY good point. The micro-organisms that I've always thought we were talking about were akin to "germs", not really parasites. So if you take a tortoise from one continent and set up his habitat in another continent, all by himself and not with a tortoise from that continent, you are, in essence, exposing the new tortoise to the other continent's germs! Well, that blows my theory right out of the water!

Yvonne

 

[Yvonne G]

Yours is one opinion... mine is another.

I have the problem with... don't do it... it's a 'control' issue kind of thing.

Ed

So if we had said, "It is my opinion.....and I suggest for this reason.....that you do not mix species..." That would not have awaked the monster?

Yvonne

 

[-EJ]

And here I thought we were going to get into the Amazon indian debate...

You can open up a whole ne can of worms with the germs... but this is the first time I've seen it mentioned.

Ed

Why would that make a difference. The Leopard and the boxie is not native to the UK. Actually... if you think about it... that's the ideal situation to mix species.

Again... don't loose the point. I'm not advocating mixing species. For the most part I don't think it is a good idea but at the same time I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with it.

Now that is a VERY good point. The micro-organisms that I've always thought we were talking about were akin to "germs", not really parasites. So if you take a tortoise from one continent and set up his habitat in another continent, all by himself and not with a tortoise from that continent, you are, in essence, exposing the new tortoise to the other continent's germs! Well, that blows my theory right out of the water!

Yvonne

 

[Josh]

lets not elevate this beyond friendly discussion.

 

[-EJ]

I don't know... actually... probably not... after rereading... i don't think so.

Ed

Yours is one opinion... mine is another.

I have the problem with... don't do it... it's a 'control' issue kind of thing.

Ed

So if we had said, "It is my opinion.....and I suggest for this reason.....that you do not mix species..." That would not have awaked the monster?

Yvonne