Complete Newbie Needs Info

[w0554096]

Hello all,
I'm am completely new in the tortoise world, however I have owned Bearded Dragons for quite a few years, and if there's one thing I've learned, it's to trust a forum for know-how over a pet store.
SO, I'm looking to find out everything I need to know about a Red Footed tortoise.

I'm currently building a triple stacked unit for my two beardies, and the tortoise (haven't gotten him/her yet) will be on the bottom.

I know that their set up is similar to a beardies, with the exception to humidity.
We're building a drainable pool in the corner, and the UVB and heat fixtures are mouted inside of the enclosures.

I only use ReptiSUN 10.0 for my dragons, and was wondering if this model is also best for tortoises.
Also, what temps should their basking spot reach to?
What should their humidity sit around, will I need a humidity gage? Are they prone to URIs if their humidity is too high?
How much of their diet is protein and exactly what kind of protein?
Do they get supplimentation for calcium and vitamins? How often?
What is the best/safest/easily maintainable substrates?
Do hatchlings require different temperatures/humidity/diet/substrates than older tortoises?

I know that's alot of questions, but I really want to get this right from the get-go.
Thanks for your help everyone!

 

[RedfootsRule]

Hello all,
I'm am completely new in the tortoise world, however I have owned Bearded Dragons for quite a few years, and if there's one thing I've learned, it's to trust a forum for know-how over a pet store.
SO, I'm looking to find out everything I need to know about a Red Footed tortoise.

I'm currently building a triple stacked unit for my two beardies, and the tortoise (haven't gotten him/her yet) will be on the bottom.

I know that their set up is similar to a beardies, with the exception to humidity.
We're building a drainable pool in the corner, and the UVB and heat fixtures are mouted inside of the enclosures.

I only use ReptiSUN 10.0 for my dragons, and was wondering if this model is also best for tortoises.
Also, what temps should their basking spot reach to?
What should their humidity sit around, will I need a humidity gage? Are they prone to URIs if their humidity is too high?
How much of their diet is protein and exactly what kind of protein?
Do they get supplimentation for calcium and vitamins? How often?
What is the best/safest/easily maintainable substrates?
Do hatchlings require different temperatures/humidity/diet/substrates than older tortoises?

I know that's alot of questions, but I really want to get this right from the get-go.
Thanks for your help everyone!

How big will the enclosure be that you are getting, and what is the size of your tortoise? Also, I don't know how similar a bearded dragon is to a red foot, as the substrate's and diet and pretty much everything is different....

He will love the pond .
-10.0 might be a little to much, I usually use 5.0 for red foots.
-Basking spot 90-95
-You will need a humidity gauge, and it should be maintained no less then 80 comfortably 85-90%. No, they are not prone to URI'S as long as the temperature is kept correct.
-Only a maximum of 5-10% of their diet should be protein. Protien should consist of worms (Nightcrawlers, earthworms, red worms. Mealworms should be avoided), but can be substituted with ground turkey or chicken.
-You CAN supplement some minerals and vitamins with a product called Miner-All, but its rather unneeded. Supplementation is not required if you follow the correct diet. This is especially true with calcium; over-supplementation can cause a lot of problems.
-The substrate is best as spaghum moss or cypress mulch. These hold humidity well, as is needed, and are easy to keep clean. Cypress is easier however then spaghum, to keep clean.
-Not necessarily. The temperature does not have to be as stringent for adults as hatchlings/juvenilles, but adults need to be kept outside. The humidity should be kept about the same, but the substrate for adults can be grass or other outdoor things just fine. Cypress mulch works very good for young and old, however. The diet should be more or less the same.

 

[luvpetz27]

Welcome!!

 

[Madkins007]

You can also try the Tortoise Library, linked in my signature.

 

[w0554096]

Hi everyone, and thanks so much for the welcome and the helpful replies!

I can definately get him/her at 5.0 reptisun, instead of a 10.
The ensloure we're building is a 4x2x2, and will be waterproofed with non/toxic sealer.
We will be getting a hatching. I've gotten in touch with a breeder who has some eggs right now incubating, and I hope sometime within the next 3 months that I will be able to get my new little tortie.

We live in Canada, so winters here last awhile, but we will be building an outdoor enclosure for the summer months.

Question: If the outdoor enclosure is predator proof, is it alright to leave a hatchling out there unsupervised, or best not to risk it?
For that matter, is it safest just to wait until the baby reaches a certain size?

Also, I did spent many hours on the Tortoise Library (awesome by the way) but am still a little confused.

SO, just to confirm, a redfoot hatchling should;
Have a basking spot between 90-95
Have a humidity of no less than 80%
Do well on cypris mulch
Can eat a very wide variety of grasses, sprouts, greens, flours, as well as some protein matter such as earth worms or canned chicken, etc about once per week.
Does that sound about right for the basics?
The only good part about having to wait to get my baby is that I have loads of time to get the viv right and tweak my temps.
Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Also, I know that the bigger the enclosure the better, when we started building our unit we were going off of th advice of a friend, and now it's too late to make it any bigger.
We can always build a new viv when he/she is older and needing lots more space, but does anyone know how long a hatching redfoot could comfortably live in a 4x2x2?
Thanks a bunch everyone!

 

[wellington]

Hello and Welcome

 

[w0554096]

Thank you!

I just had another question occur to me from reading another user's post.
They are also getting a red foot hatchling, and someone reccomended that for protein they could get small amount of butterworms and waxworms.
Does anyone know if pheonix worms (small size) would be benifitial for a baby?
They have high contents of calcium, and a soft mushy body. I have access to all sizes of phenix worms, as well as waxworms and butterworms. (That's what my dragons get, so I have quite a few on hand).
Of course, canned chicken is also a very easy protein to keep.
Opinions?

 

[FLINTUS]

Hi everyone, and thanks so much for the welcome and the helpful replies!

I can definately get him/her at 5.0 reptisun, instead of a 10.
The ensloure we're building is a 4x2x2, and will be waterproofed with non/toxic sealer.
We will be getting a hatching. I've gotten in touch with a breeder who has some eggs right now incubating, and I hope sometime within the next 3 months that I will be able to get my new little tortie.

We live in Canada, so winters here last awhile, but we will be building an outdoor enclosure for the summer months.

Question: If the outdoor enclosure is predator proof, is it alright to leave a hatchling out there unsupervised, or best not to risk it?
For that matter, is it safest just to wait until the baby reaches a certain size?

Also, I did spent many hours on the Tortoise Library (awesome by the way) but am still a little confused.

SO, just to confirm, a redfoot hatchling should;
Have a basking spot between 90-95
Have a humidity of no less than 80%
Do well on cypris mulch
Can eat a very wide variety of grasses, sprouts, greens, flours, as well as some protein matter such as earth worms or canned chicken, etc about once per week.
Does that sound about right for the basics?
The only good part about having to wait to get my baby is that I have loads of time to get the viv right and tweak my temps.
Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Also, I know that the bigger the enclosure the better, when we started building our unit we were going off of th advice of a friend, and now it's too late to make it any bigger.
We can always build a new viv when he/she is older and needing lots more space, but does anyone know how long a hatching redfoot could comfortably live in a 4x2x2?
Thanks a bunch everyone!

I would say it would last maybe 4 years depending on growth. A predator proof enclosure is fine unsupervised just make sure the temps are abive 15 degrees celsius-we're UK so have cold winters as well. Maybe as a hatchling under 6 months go for 17 or above. Include plenty of fruits(30-40% of diet) and maybe get some moss as well.

 

[w0554096]

Could you give me a few examples of good fuits to have on hand?
From all my research, it's my understanding that fruit to us (strawberries, melons, bananas, aka sweet juicy things) aren't always what the diet guides refer to as fruits. Would squash be considered a fuit, since technicaly it's the flour produce of a plant?

Also, our summers can dip in temperature somedays, not severely, but if necessary to get him/her some more outdoor time when it cools off, could I put an outdoor heat lamp in the enclosure? If the temperature did dip, would the baby know to go to the heat?
Will he/she be harmed on the less humid days outside? Should I find someway to increase humidity in the outdoor enclosure?

thanks!

 

[Jacqui]

Thank you!

I just had another question occur to me from reading another user's post.
They are also getting a red foot hatchling, and someone reccomended that for protein they could get small amount of butterworms and waxworms.
Does anyone know if pheonix worms (small size) would be benifitial for a baby?
They have high contents of calcium, and a soft mushy body. I have access to all sizes of phenix worms, as well as waxworms and butterworms. (That's what my dragons get, so I have quite a few on hand).
Of course, canned chicken is also a very easy protein to keep.
Opinions?

phoenix worms are good too.

 

[RedfootsRule]

What the diet guides, research studies, and etc. refer to as fruit is what you think of as fruit. While the definition of fruit is a wide term that encompasses a lot more then we picture as fruit, the fruit we feed to our torts is what we call fruit. Statements like that are usually founded in misunderstanding of the type of fruits they are eating in the wild. Yes, they eat SUGARY and JUICY fruits in the wild. Passion fruit and figs are two commonly consumed...Both with a VERY high sugar content, and certainly not dry.
Good fruits can be a lot...Blackberry, strawberry, raspberry, melon (cantaloupe, honeydew, watermelon), kiwi, mango, papaya, passion fruit, pineapple even, fig, grape, apple...And a lot of others I can't remember . Fruits should make up 20-35% of the diet. Try to use a large variety of them.

 

[Madkins007]

What the diet guides, research studies, and etc. refer to as fruit is what you think of as fruit. While the definition of fruit is a wide term that encompasses a lot more then we picture as fruit, the fruit we feed to our torts is what we call fruit. Statements like that are usually founded in misunderstanding of the type of fruits they are eating in the wild. Yes, they eat SUGARY and JUICY fruits in the wild. Passion fruit and figs are two commonly consumed...Both with a VERY high sugar content, and certainly not dry.
Good fruits can be a lot...Blackberry, strawberry, raspberry, melon (cantaloupe, honeydew, watermelon), kiwi, mango, papaya, passion fruit, pineapple even, fig, grape, apple...And a lot of others I can't remember . Fruits should make up 20-35% of the diet. Try to use a large variety of them.

What is your source for the bolded statement? Wild red-foots do eat some of this sort of thing, but field studies and reports, such as those listed below, list the most common foods eaten, and while figs are a favorite on the relatively rare occasions they find a fruiting fig tree, the majority of the fruits eaten are things like pehen, philodendron fruit, spondias, etc. few of which are described as 'SUGARY or JUICY'.

Sources:
- Bjorndahl, Karen A. “Flexibility of digestive responses in two generalist herbivores, the tortoises Geochelone carbonaria and Geochelone denticulata". Oecologia 78:3, March 1989. SpringerLink.
- Moskovits, Debra." The Behavior and Ecology of the Two Amazonian Tortoises, Geochelone carbonaria and Geochelone denticulata, in Northwestern Brazil". (PhD Dissertation) University of Chicago, 1985.
- Moskovits, Debra and Karen Bjorndal. "Diet and Food Preferences of the Tortoises Geochelone carbonaria and G. denticulata in Northwestern Brazil". Herpetologica, Vol. 46, No. 2, 1990.
- Pritchard, Dr. Peter C. H.and Pedro Trebbau. Turtles of Venezuela (Contributions to herpetology) . Society for the Study of Amphibians and Reptiles, 1984. ISBN 0916984117
- Strong, Joel N, Fragoso, Jose M. V. "Seed Dispersal bu Geochelone carbonaria and G. denticulata in Northwestern Brazil." Biotropica 38 (5).
-

 

[Michael in MO]

RE: Complete Newbie Needs (PROTEIN)

Something I never see mentioned but I use as a protein source: SHRIMP!! I'm not sure why... I was a big fan of boiling a few chicken legs every so often but there was always meat left on the bone... With shrimp there's nothing to clean up... and I can put the shrimp in a tortoise salad, toss it to get the scent on everything and it's all devoured. I get raw shrimp and boil, de-vein and peel them myself so I know there's no salt or additives, and I enjoy a few myself while I'm preparing them for my tortoise