Common Knowledge drift, Parrots, and Overgrown beaks...

[Jacqui]

Stepping in to just remind folks don't go making this personal. Please stay on topic with no bashing each other.

 

[jaizei]

(1) Parroting: Repeating information one does not understand, nor has applied themselves in captive situations, within their own animals, and has simply read somewhere.
(2) Regurgitated information: Repeating information that one has read elsewhere, but carefully considered the pros and cons, understood fully, and applied it themselves in captive situations, in their own animals. (This is where everyone on this forum falls.)

You seem to have trouble grasping the concept of 'regurgitated'. It is spewing information that one has not fully digested. One has not weighed the pros or cons, nor do they understand it fully or have applied it. For the most part it is synonymous with parroting.

Also, I think both words have negative connotations for a reason. They are intended to be insults describing an undesirable behavior. Ever wonder why there is so much misinformation?

Which would be the very reason I decided to define it, or at least my definition. The definition is all that matters here...You have a different one then me. Yours is what I listed as "parroted". I defined "regurgitated" differently, because there are those members here that wish to insist they aren't "parroters", the kind that would apply to anyone repeating information that they have learned elsewhere. I defined "regurgitated" that way, for those people. This is the very reason I decided to split it into two different definitions. There is NO cause for argument here, so please do not start one.

Again, perhaps your definition, not mine. I see no reason why either one must carry any kind of insulting undertone. "Parroters" are well-meaning people, and its not necessarily an undesirable behavior. Cause for misinformation? Partially is possible. There is a myriad of other reasons however that are far larger contributors; even the "experts" give out misinformation sometimes, its unavoidable. Its not their fault they don't have the amount of experience, (or amount of tortoises) that others have, so therefore they are forced to "parrot", because they want to help. Neither meaning needs to be an insult; I merely defined them so there is no confusion here.

Seeing how many see the two as synonymous (or close to it), your definition seems to be the outlier, as should be obvious by the previous thread.

The whole reason to use the word 'regurgitated' is because they are not digesting (processing) the information. This is counter to your definition. Also, since when do we change definitions to suit peoples feelings. Change the definition instead of changing their behavior?

One "expert" making a mistake is one "expert" making a mistake. It's a problem when 9 others agree with or repeat the "expert" simply because of who it is.

Your definition of regurgitated is my definition of parroting. Will it make you happy if I change my definition of regurgitated to simply repeated or digested? I'm not going to argue something so ridiculously pointless, because thats exactly what you are doing. You are arguing with me over my definition of the word. My definition is not your definition. End of story.

Do we each get our own versions of "the truth" and "facts" also?

Your definition is wrong.

 

[biochemnerd808]

I don't so much (or rather, not at all) have a problem with valid knowledge being repeated.
My problem is more with a) incomplete information being shared or b) unquestioningly repeating something that was heard somewhere, but without being relatively sure it is true, ever investigating the source, or checking if it actually applies to the situation. A parrot doesn't question what he is saying. He repeats it. (Feed on a slate! Vitashell is bad!) - it may or may not be true. The fact that it has been repeated again and again and again doesn't make it more or less true, at least from a scientific perspective.

I don't think every little thing needs an 'expert' to chime in. I think it is good that laypeople (like myself?) are able to help others on here. I am no expert, but I do know a little bit more than someone who just bought a tortoise. I know WAY less than someone who has been keeping tortoises for 30 years. A lot of my experience is related to rescuing and rehabilitating tortoises, but I am a complete n00b concerning breeding. I am so thankful for all the info that is available on here.

By the definition below, regurgitating information is not a problem, although I wouldn't call it that because regurgitation doesn't imply any digestion. I would call it 'passing on knowledge?

(2) Regurgitated information: Repeating information that one has read elsewhere, but carefully considered the pros and cons, understood fully, and applied it themselves in captive situations, in their own animals.

It's the parroting that I don't like. The beak issue isn't really the heart of what I want to discuss in this thread, it was just an example. A well fed tortoise with an overgrown beak can probably be allowed to wear it down on their own. Norbert/Stumpy hadn't been fed for 6 months when he came into my care. He was 5.5 inches long and weighed less than 250g. He had a terribly overgrown beak. Eating was difficult, but at least he tried - we held off on trimming, and he actually got it stuck on something and it broke off. Boo was underweight and had an overgrown beak, and he just couldn't eat. He tried, but just couldn't. He had to lean his head waaaay back to pull into his shell. So we trimmed it.

On a side note, it usually isn't necessary to put a tortoise in a head lock to trim a beak. I have only had to do that with one tortoise, ever. Even the shyest tortoise can be tricked, with a lot of patience, and 'freehanding' it is safe if you use the proper tools. But that is for a different discussion thread.

 

[Yellow Turtle]

Here we go again. If you mention about parroting and not making this forum produces more unnecessary threads, then you too should bother to check that there is already exactly similar thread by Will not to long ago...

Maybe moderator should sticky 1 thread, which offers links to all important threads which they think coming from experts. Then we all can stop parroting and start replying newbies threads by simply saying "have you checked this stickied threads"...

 

[RedfootsRule]

I agree with you. I suppose "regurgitated" isn't the best word to use for it, because yeah it doesn't imply "digestion". Its a word. I used it because we had this discussion a month or two ago...I believe thats the one Welligton was referring to. A couple members that thought they were better then all of those that gave out "regurgitated" information. I tried to explain to them that ALL information, from anybody, I don't care who, is regurgitated. Thats why I defined it the way I did.
Parroting and regurgitating, in my book, are different things. Just how I define them. There is nothing wrong with regurgitation, by my definition. Parroting, for the most part, is okay, because like I said...well-meaning members just trying to help. Just because they don't have the experience or have applied it themselves doesn't mean they can't repeat it. Like Wellington said...He took it from people he trusts and has seen it apply it themselves, and then repeated it. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[lynnedit]

I think this thread, at least originally, had a different concept to it than Will's post. But it has drifted away from that concept, which I believe proves the point.

Regardless, there will be multiple posts that are repeated. And that is how we all learn. That is how new members learn.
Sometimes you can do a search and you can't find exactly what you need. Or, if you are a new member, you might not know about the option of doing a search.
I hope people, including myself, keep asking questions, even if they are repetitive. That means that at least one more tortoise will have a chance at good care. And I believe that is the point.
Hopefully, over time, we will all do enough research and apply enough common sense to sift through and get the best information for our needs.

And I think Sally wonders what all the fuss is about!

 

[N2TORTS]

I think this thread, at least originally, had a different concept to it than Will's post. But it has drifted away from that concept, which I believe proves the point.

Regardless, there will be multiple posts that are repeated. And that is how we all learn. That is how new members learn.
Sometimes you can do a search and you can't find exactly what you need. Or, if you are a new member, you might not know about the option of doing a search.
I hope people, including myself, keep asking questions, even if they are repetitive. That means that at least one more tortoise will have a chance at good care. And I believe that is the point.
Hopefully, over time, we will all do enough research and apply enough common sense to sift through and get the best information for our needs.

And I think Sally wonders what all the fuss is about!

GREAT POINTS you present Lynn'....and Sally just laughs at all of this !