Carapace softer, darkening, advice please

[ectothermicfauna]

I have 13 baby three toed box turtles. My first clutch of this species.

(I've worked with and still keep many species of tortoise though.)

I'm having a heck of a time with this baby. All of his siblings are active, feeding, growing, happy little babies. Husbandry is the same for all of them with one exception (see below).

He's got clear eyes, and he does eat. He basks a normal amount I would say. Doesnt seem to be pinned to the UVB light (the bulb is only two months old). But I wouldnt call him active, not like the others for sure.

I brought him to the vet this morning but well, lets just say Im pretty sure he's a #$@#$ !!$@#!!... well, moving on.

This baby's carapace started out straight beautiful yellow. and now its this sickly looking dark colors.

Most of his siblings have gotten larger, and their carapace's are either still that bright yellow, or have started to turn orange (like their father's). None of the others have turned this greenish dark color.

Vet says, "Its normal for them to change colors as they grow". I doubt "greenish" is normal very much.

The most concerning is that his carapace is softer than the others, squishy even. Of course my first thoughts were like some sort of calcium/vit D deficiency so I went out and got an additional high output UVB bulb just for him.

Its this one: http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/reptile_uvb200.php Its been on him for 2 months.

Yes, I realize it may be a bit of overkill, and yeah he does hide from it under the plastic foliage a bit, but I feel confident he's still getting quite a bit of it. He also has 24 hr access to both cuttlebone and a little dish of reptical. Theres some little scratches in the cuttlebone so he's either eating it or just scratching it with his feet if he walks on it, not sure.

Has anyone seen this before?

What do i do next?

 

[Yvonne G]

NO NO NO!!!!! CEASE and DESIST!!!! insert skull and cross bones here!!! Don't use that light. They are known to cause serious eye problems in baby turtles and tortoises.


The picture is too blurry for me to get a good idea, but from your description, I would GUESS that maybe the plastron is thinning due to calcium deficiency, and the darkness you're seeing is the liquid inside the turtle's body. I've seen that before. If you gently roll the baby back and forth in a bright light you can actually see the liquid go back and forth. This is pretty much close to the end of the line, but don't give up. Keep trying to get calcium into the baby, and UVB either from the sun or a good light. My fingers are crossed for you that you can pull this baby through.

 

[ectothermicfauna]

Ok, yes, I have read an article in tortoise trust about the spiral bulbs and trashed that one. Did not know that so thank you. Fortunately for me, all of my enclosures have the long shop light looking tube uvb so i wont have to replace any of the others. I literally just bought that bulb to try to save this one baby because it was marketed for the purpose of helping with soft shells. ARGH. wasnt trying to blind the poor baby! got him under a 10.0 uvb long tube now. best I can do at the moment. anywho,

I tried rolling him under the bright light to see for fluid movement, didnt see any. the color doesnt appear to move at all. I am soo ticked off at my vet right now. I practically begged him to give him a calcium gluconate shot (We've done it before to save a rescue) but he says its not medically warranted. He seems to think that because box turtles can hinge that the softness is normal. The next vet is a solid 155 miles from here, and doesnt treat reptiles either.

I have some liquid calcium glubionate, been thinking about giving him some orally but I'm worried that I may overdose it given how small he is. Or we can wait and see.

Thoughts?

 

[wellington]

I can't help you much, but I have read on here about putting the liquid in the warm water soaks. Try that and maybe put some carrot baby food also in the soaks. Is it warm enough where you are to put the baby in natural sunlight? If so, I would also do that daily, just make sure it doesn't over heat. Good luck, hope you can get him to make it through.

 

[Yvonne G]

I'm not a scientist or a doctor, all I have is practical experience, and usually don't know WHY it works, just that it works. So I'm telling you what I've heard, not based on any science: Excess calcium is excreted in the urine. For such a tiny baby, I would just half-fill an eye dropper and try to squirt it into his mouth. Probably easier said than done. Barring that, if he's eating, you can put some on his food.

 

[ectothermicfauna]

update:

I live in Alaska, its currently 40 degrees or so, so no. Im afraid natural sunlight will be out of the question for a couple more months. The color has not changed, but I was able to dose down the Ca after an enormous amount of math, utilizing a tiny pipette and a gram scale. He has not stopped eating. Hard call on if the firmness of the shell has improved, mostly because how do you "measure" squish? but I think it has some and remain optimistic. Also have been seeing him bask more since the removal of the spiral bulb. Good signs for sure. The rest of the hatchlings are still doing great.

By the way, I was so erked by the spiral bulb thing that I actually wrote a signed snail mail letter to exo terra about it. Haven't heard back, and I doubt they would do anything about it, but I still think they should put a warning on them. I wonder how many others have done the same. Nobody wants to blind their tortoise. And its got to be bad for business for them. you'd think they would put out a statement about it or something.

 

[TortsNTurtles]

I am glad your baby seems to be doing better. Keep us posted.

 

[crtnyrc]

How is your turtle doing?