Can't Build Outdoor Enclosure for Greek, Thoughts?

[Yurusumaji]

Hello everyone. A while back my husband and I brought home a young Greek tortoise with, unfortunately, bad information on his care. I am finally ready to build him a large indoor enclosure, but the more research I do, the more unsure I feel.

My husband is military, so we live in a rental. It's a house, with a small yard, but the yard is completely overgrown with thistle (we pulled these darn things up from the roots last year and now they've multiplied 100-fold!).

Now I can build him a 6' x 3' indoor enclosure. He's pyramiding (it's starting to get bad and it makes me feel like I'm the worst person on Earth), but we can't build him an outdoor enclosure. I do try to let him out whenever possible, but I know it's not as often as we should, nor for as long as it should be.

I really don't like the idea of rehoming, but I also don't like the idea of keeping him enclosed more often than not and just giving him the minimum requirements. That's not how I like to do things. I thought I had done my research, I checked several different information sites, and now I'm just angry at myself for not being more thorough and careful about making sure the information I had was correct.

I really want to do right by this guy, and without being able to give him an outdoor enclosure, I feel like that's not really possible. I'm looking for any advice, recommendations, anything.

 

[tglazie]

I've had my Greek tortoise for over twenty years, and I moved from San Antonio, TX to Albuquerque, NM, to Alamogordo, NM, back to San Antonio, TX with him, given that my old man was in the Airforce and we moved around a lot. For the past eighteen years, my Greek and I have lived in San Antonio, but when I first got him, we moved around a lot between rentals. First, let me say that keeping a tortoise outdoors in a rental is not impossible. You just can't make his home a permanent structure. To achieve this, my old man and I constructed a four by twelve outdoor run of pine boards with three collapsible screen tops afixed as a roof. Whenever we had to move to another deployment, we would disassemble the enclosure and move to wherever the next assignment was. Luckily, my old man never got another overseas deployment for the rest of his military career, given that before I bought my Greek, we lived in both Turkey and South Korea. You and your husband may not be so lucky, but honestly, where there's a will, there's a way. And don't destroy the thistles. Take a picture of them and post it in the tortoise diet forum. They may be safe for your tortoise to eat, in which case you can incorporate edible graze into your outdoor enclosure. That's very lucky. Here in San Antonio, I had to plant everything that grows in my yard. If yours comes ready stocked, I couldn't imagine a more perfect scenario.

T.G.

 

[Yurusumaji]

T.G. I super-appreciate these words of encouragement! My hubbs is Air Force, too. We had Japan on the Dream Sheet, and I still want to go, but I recently made him change it to all Stateside bases because we have the animals and I am in school full-time trying to figure out what the heck to do with myself.

How did you do the sides of the enclosure to make it portable? This is a big concern for us. If I can do it in a way that allows me to bring it wherever we go next (shooting for places with mild-to-no winter because if there's only one thing me and my tortie agree on it's that cold weather sucks!) then that is obviously a huge bonus for us! That way I can focus on building the outdoor right now and then making him an indoor if necessary later on.

Oh, and how do you deal with colder morning temps? For instance, it's only 46F here this morning. It should warm up, though I can't say for sure it will get warm enough for the tort. Would I just have to overnight him in an indoor enclosure then?

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I've done enclosures in rentals, too.

My favorite, cheapest, easiest way so far..(although not prettiest it'll do you perfectly).

Buy 4- 2"x10" x 10' long boards. Looks like a giant 2x4. Put them together to make a square frame and screw them together on the sides. That's it. You now have a 100sq ft pen that is portable.
Doesn't attach to the ground, just sits right on top. Bring him in at night and you don't need cover. Time to move? Simply un screw the boards and take then with you.

Make sense? Hope it helps..

 

[Yvonne G]

I built a portable pen for our zoo's desert tortoises. It was pretty easy. I used 2x4's for the corners, cut to height. 2x12's for the sides. I permanently screwed the 2x4's into two of the side boards, but not into the other two. I set it up in a square, then screwed the other two side boards into the 2x4s. When taking it apart, you remove the screws from the last two boards you put up, but leave the 2x4s screwed into the other 2 boards.

 

[Yurusumaji]

Gomberg, that does make sense! Screwing and unscrewing the boards doesn't cause threading issues, though? I guess you wouldn't be doing it very often. Do you move the screws at all to prevent this or just use the holes you've already made?

 

[daniel reyes]

My name is Daniel, I run a tortoise rescue in Fl. It is very possible to build a good safe indoor enclosure, it just depends how much time and money you want to put into it. I built a 4' by 8' double decker tortoise setup for our younger/smaller tortoises. If your tortoise is developing pyramiding, it is most likely a sign that it needs more humidity in its habitat. Keeping a tortoise indoors means that your typically keeping your tortoise in an air conditioned environment. AC remove the humidity from inside the house, so it is very important to keep your tortoise at a proper humidity level. We use regular untreated Cypress mulch as a substrate for the tortoise tables, this also helps keep the environment at proper humidity levels. I personally mist them with fresh filtered water 2-3times a day and make sure their shell is well hydrated. The old school way of thinking with tortoises is that the pyramiding is more do to improper diet, but those of us who have kept tortoises a long time know well that an arid environment is just as much a factor with pyramiding. Their shells grow from around each scute, and if their shell is not properly hydrated, the shell will not grow smoothly. A shallow water dish is also good, but must be cleaned regularly!!! Tortoise will urinate, and deficate in their water bowls and then stick their entire head in their bowls to drink which can lead to respiratory track infections.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Gomberg, that does make sense! Screwing and unscrewing the boards doesn't cause threading issues, though? I guess you wouldn't be doing it very often. Do you move the screws at all to prevent this or just use the holes you've already made?

I did the "screw/ unscrew" on my temporary pen about 4x. I used the same screws and holes each time with no problem. But screws are cheap enough to replace as they start to strip.

Like Yvonne shared, you could use a 2x4 as the meeting post in each corner. Screw the boards into that if you want.

 

[tglazie]

Gomberg answered several of your questions. Boards can be unscrewed and rescrewed (rescrewed?) whenever you move, which is often in relative terms, but not so often in absolute terms. Besides this, boards are pretty cheap. After Albuquerque, the boards were outliving their usefulness, and we just chucked 'em.

In regards to the cold mornings, I would just bring my boy in and keep him in a fifty five gallon rubbermaid tote. I'd suspend a ceramic heating element on one end alongside a 150 watt heat bulb in a ceramic fixture. If the day got too cold, I would leave him indoors in his topsoil filled tote and turn on the light. If the house got too cold, I'd partially cover the tote with a lid cut to fit the lamps with tin foil acting as a heat buffer against the plastic. It looks pretty ghetto, but it does the job. Ultimately, this can also help in establishing the proper humidity to getting your fella's growth back on track. Given that Graecus was out and about in the hot Albuquerque and Alamogordo sun, he didn't need a UVB light. Yours may or may not need one depending upon how much outside time he has.

But yeah, ultimately, don't fret. You're not the only one who has made mistakes that led to pyramiding. I was lucky, given that I didn't raise baby tortoises until my folks and I had settled in San Antonio, a nice warm humid place east of the RIo Grande. All of my babies were the lucky recipients of outdoor life in a series of lushly planted, well protected outdoor enclosures. Back then, we didn't know that humidity and environmental factors were the principle cause of pyramiding. We were all drinking the Koolaid that pyramiding was directly tied to dietary deficiencies. Today, thanks to the pioneering work of Tom and countless others here on the forum, we now know what so many of us had long suspected, namely that water and humidity are absolutely critical to the successful rearing of healthy hatchlings. But yes, if you make these changes, your baby will transform into an enduring little tank. All types of Testudo should be maintained outdoors for at least part of the year, in my opinion (unless, of course, you're in Fargo, ND). You just can't replicate the great outdoors. Think about it. The fresh air, the sunlight changes over the course of the day as the earth rotates west to east, the complex interaction of plants and the atmosphere over the course of the day, all of it contributes to a tortoise living a life for which it's ancestors have evolved and adapted over millennia to survive. We can't replicate a wild European/Near Eastern environment completely, but we can get close enough to see our torts positively thrive.

T.G.

 

[Jacqui]

Is your ground level?

 

[Yurusumaji]

Jacqui - Some of it is, some of it is not. We have a level spot near our side door that gets tons of sunshine.

 

[johnsonnboswell]

Instead of screwing into the wood, you could drill holes & use bolts & wing nuts. That will hold up.

For the thistles, smother them. Black plastic or a layer of damp newspaper or cardboard will deprive them of light & air & they'll die. The heat of the sun will cook it. If you use paper, there's no need to remove it, you can add soil over it & plant directly into it.

 

[Yurusumaji]

So I saw an outdoor enclosure made with a galvanized rabbit run that collapses. The instant I mentioned an outdoor enclosure, husband went off. He started going on about gangs (we don't have any activity anywhere near my house), angry neighbors (none of those either) and basically insisting our tortoise was doomed to die if I put him in an outside enclosure. So I saw the rabbit run and he was okay with that idea. It can't be buried very deeply, but if I attach chicken wire or something to the bottom, would something like that work?

They're only 5' long so I am planning to buy 2 and take a long side off of each one, making a giant box-shaped enclosure.

ETA: Thank you for the ideas on how to kill off the thistle! That will be very helpful!

 

[johnsonnboswell]

Bring the tortoise in at night or when you're away if you're worried about security and you can't lock them in. Any amount of time they can spend outdoors will be so beneficial.

 

[Lyn W]

Just a thought - which may be complete nonsense as I've not made an out door enclosure myself yet - but what if you use hinges instead of screws on your boards so that everything can fold up if necessary.

 

[Jacqui]

If you can go oblong instead of square, it seems to be best.

 

[Yurusumaji]

If you can go oblong instead of square, it seems to be best.

Can I ask why a rectangular shape is better? Hubbs is actually pushing for a more square enclosure, versus one that is "track-like". My yard is small though, so I'm not 100% positive I can accomodate a 10' long enclosure PLUS all of husband's insane requirements.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Jacqui can share her personal reasons for that suggestion...but my reason for "liking" her comment is because I've seen first hand with my tortoises, they pace the perimeter over cruising central square footage. My leopard right now lives in the backyard. Free roam of the whole yard!! ...yet he spends a good majority of the time pacing a 30' stretch of fence..... Back and forth over and over. It's more likely I'll find him along the yard perimeter than in the middle of all that space.
I say that to say this....

5'x 6' and 2'x 15' might both equal 30sqft...But that long pen will seem bigger?? And allow more straight walking room. It's how I'd do it...

 

[leigti]

I made an L-shaped enclosure. One of the reasons I made at this shape it was because it gave my Russian tortoise a lot of perimeter to walk. It is only 4 feet wide.