BUSTA

[suppyz]

i am new to this Forum and hope I can navigate thru it.

My Tort is very ill.

He is 46 lbs and had lost a scute.so I took him to a exotic vet and she injected her with vit A and he had a very bad reaction to it. his leg is like raw meat, he swollen twice the size. he is not moving hardly at all. I have been soaking him every day. took him back to the vet and they put a feeding tube in him. It got clogged and they put in another. The vet gave me a spray to put on his leg twice a day . also gave me an antibiotic to put in the feed tube. and Dr is givng her lazer treatments on his leg.

People are saying to get the vet to take tube out immediately. stop the lazer treaments. I am lost as to what is good and what is not good to do. He has not eaten on his own for over 2 weeks. He is pathectic.

PLEASE advise.
sue g

 

[dmarcus]

I have never had to deal with anything like this, hopefully someone will be able to advise you on what's the best thing to do for you and your tortoise...

 

[ascott]

Welcome to the Forum Sue Glad you navigated in ....if you review some of the posts on here you will see that the group has had some time to start to review your story.....under Vitamin A injection...of course went wrong.....

With it being Veterans day and all give a bit for members to visit in and welcome you as well as any opinions....


What is your tortoises name? Do you have a photo of him that you can share?

---

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Vitamin-A-Injection-of-course-went-wrong#axzz1dQjtZDRI

Sue here is the info put out there earlier....LOL we both did the move over of your original other post....

I hope you will get additional positive response.....

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Sue:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

I had a hard time learning to navigate on the Forum when I first joined too, but once I mastered it I much prefer to be here than on any other listserv or group.

Did you ask your vet what the antidote to a Vitamin A overdose is? That should be the very first thing you find out.

You now have to worry about infection, so keep him as clean as you possibly can. 45lbs is pretty big to try to contain in a small, clean area, but you must try!

Can you soak him? Maybe you can get one of those plastic kiddy wading pools and soak him in warm water. If you can't find a pool this time of year, see about getting a cheap water trough.

You'd be surprised how much soaking in water improves a tortoise's attitude.

I'm forwarding the link to this thread to our fellow member exoticsdr to see if he has any words of wisdom for you. But please remember, diagnosing online without being able to see the patient, is pretty much guess work. We'll do our best for you.

 

[Torty Mom]

Hang in there! There are a lot of people here that will try to help! I hope your tortie is feeling better soon!

 

[exoticsdr]

Trying to determine exactly what caused the scute loss in the first place is probably going to be very important here as it may be an important complicating factor especially considering the open sores and skin sloughing due to the Vitamin A shot.

Just be prepared for a prolonged recovery and treatment. Treat the wounds as you would for a severe burn, warm water hydrotherapy, keeping dead tissue cleaned away and coating with Silvadene cream would be beneficial. I like the idea of laser treatments and use them on small animal wounds all the time, speeds healing, as far as I can tell, in every case that I have used it in. The feeding tube, if maintained properly, is going to be a lifesaver...just remember to keep food at a consistency that can pass easily and flush the tube before and after feeding and I would use oral meds as much as possible and a liberal dose of probiotics during each feeding....Oxbow Critical Care fits the bill nicely for this.

Doc

PS...I know a lot of folks are advocating soaking and I would discourage that in this case. Hydration can be maintained via the feeding tube...soaking with open wounds in water that he will most likely be defecating and urinating in would be unproductive and possibly set you back, instead..use gently running water and flush the wounds several times a day.

 

[Yvonne G]

Thank you, Dr. Todd. I'm so glad you are a member here and are so willing and generous with your time and knowledge.

 

[ascott]

He is 46 lbs and had lost a scute.so I took him to a exotic vet and she injected her with vit A


Doc, I am curious, in your opinion, why a vet would think that a missing scute would equal the need for a Vitamin A injection?????

they put a feeding tube in him. It got clogged and they put in another.

Doc, this tortoise has not been eating for 2 weeks (on his own), I am curious of your opinion as to why this would be such a thing to do right off vs trying to heal the tortoise and not inflict further stress on an already stressed tortoise? Does it not prove to be a point of further bacterial infection? I know that tortoise can go some time without food, I am curious as to why such an invasive thing would be suggested with a tortoise that has not eaten for only two weeks?

Now I am ONLY ONLY asking these questions as a point of information for myself and IN NO NO NO way questioning what your saying but rather I don't get a couple points is all

Thank you so very much...

 

[exoticsdr]

He is 46 lbs and had lost a scute.so I took him to a exotic vet and she injected her with vit A


Doc, I am curious, in your opinion, why a vet would think that a missing scute would equal the need for a Vitamin A injection?????

Sorry, can't answer that question with any certainty as I wasn't there to actually lay eyes on the tort. I can imagine a lot of different senarios, that MAY indicate increased Vitamin A, but I prefer to go the dietary route but that is learning from my own mistakes and others. I can say that certain treatment protocols become and fall out of "vogue" in our profession just as they do in human medicine. Most treatment protocols in exotic animal medicine have been formed out of necessity, as most are extremely difficult to do even the most simple examination procedures on, diagnostic tests are often almost impossible to perform and test results are required from outside labs that sometimes take weeks to get results that are often needed immediately if not sooner and treatment is almost always going to be a problem for the owner. And if I had a dime for every time an owner asked, "Are you going to give him a shot for his problem?"....I wouldn't still have huge school loans to pay off (BTW, that is no excuse for giving an unneeded injection).they put a feeding tube in him. It got clogged and they put in another.

Doc, this tortoise has not been eating for 2 weeks (on his own), I am curious of your opinion as to why this would be such a thing to do right off vs trying to heal the tortoise and not inflict further stress on an already stressed tortoise? Does it not prove to be a point of further bacterial infection? I know that tortoise can go some time without food, I am curious as to why such an invasive thing would be suggested with a tortoise that has not eaten for only two weeks?

The post stated that the tube was put in, clogged and replaced. My point is, the tube is there.......use it to its benefit. The feeding tube takes away all the guess work on nutrition and medication...if you put it in the tube, you absolutely know that the tort is getting it. I actually would love it if sick tort owners allowed me to put feeding tubes in while in the early stages of a problems instead of waiting until the animal is so debilitated with disease that the anesthesia for tube placement procedure becomes a more likely cause for death that the original disease. Contrary to what you would thing, a feeding tube is not very stressful at all and they become used to them very quickly.
Now I am ONLY ONLY asking these questions as a point of information for myself and IN NO NO NO way questioning what your saying but rather I don't get a couple points is all

Thank you so very much...

 

[ascott]

Thank you Doc for taking the time to share your opinion on my curiosities....

I believe that my initial response when speaking with the tortoise owner was that she went in with the best intentions (albeit there was not alot of self education on why perhaps a tortoise may loses a scute--lack of diet, lack of uv exposure, possible fungus, etc.) Not a fault being placed but simply an observation from a woman that makes herself crazy researching any and all things I can lay eyes on but that is attributed to my OCD lol)

I believe that this tortoise likely will/is suffering undo stress as a direct result of what the vet elected to do (new or old fad, the vet should be up to date if they are going to practice as a professional..IMHO). As a domino affect, the tortoise is now in horrible health with exposed wound site, the overdose (not confirmed, just suspected) of the Vitamin A and can create other havoc going on that we can not see outwardly, the tortoise has had a tube shoved down its throat (of which I am never convinced that they get use to it as we equate the lack of whooping and hollering as meaning getting use to it..IMHO).

The owner also said to me that she did not know even what to feed him through his tube, wow, so the vet did not give a list of items to feed, which would make me wonder if she gave her amounts to feed as well--as if too much goes in it has to come out or stomach rupture? Seems to me this is where my greatest concern and question comes from Doc, this seems like a horrible guessing game, with of course the tortoise once again, being the ailing victim....you know?

I am in no way a person of medicine, I am in no way a person that has been through any formal medical training....what I am is a woman who does tremendous research along with TONS AND TONS of observation of tortoise and turtle (as I JUST LOVE EM ) as well as I am a person who has had good experience with vets as well as some that had me walking out of a vets office singing "that vet is a quack"...just as I have for human medical doctors

I would be scared to death (death for my tortoise that is) if I were this tortoise owner, scared to even step foot back into THAT vets office....and that is entirely IMHO.

I totally know that you can only speculate the situation according to the information you were given....so my curiosity TRULY was to just gain your opinion....not so much I guess on the generality of the individual procedures alone but more to those procedures with respect to this specific tortoise.... I won't bug ya anymore on this, thank you again Doc.

 

[suppyz]

Trying to determine exactly what caused the scute loss in the first place is probably going to be very important here as it may be an important complicating factor especially considering the open sores and skin sloughing due to the Vitamin A shot.

Just be prepared for a prolonged recovery and treatment. Treat the wounds as you would for a severe burn, warm water hydrotherapy, keeping dead tissue cleaned away and coating with Silvadene cream would be beneficial. I like the idea of laser treatments and use them on small animal wounds all the time, speeds healing, as far as I can tell, in every case that I have used it in. The feeding tube, if maintained properly, is going to be a lifesaver...just remember to keep food at a consistency that can pass easily and flush the tube before and after feeding and I would use oral meds as much as possible and a liberal dose of probiotics during each feeding....Oxbow Critical Care fits the bill nicely for this.

Doc

PS...I know a lot of folks are advocating soaking and I would discourage that in this case. Hydration can be maintained via the feeding tube...soaking with open wounds in water that he will most likely be defecating and urinating in would be unproductive and possibly set you back, instead..use gently running water and flush the wounds several times a day.

 

[suppyz]

Thank you ALL so much for your help and advise on Busta. I have been feeding him pumpkin, and grinding up Kale, colards etc and feeding him thru the tube. I have been flushing the tube after. but will start to do it before as well. Started using a weakened benedine but will try to find the Silvadene cream today.

I have tried to entice him with bananas and strawberries but he is just not interested at all with eating. He is totally not using his leg that was injected. but was actualy digging for a minute or two the day before last which gave me some hope.

What UVB bulb would you suggest at this point? the one i have is about a year old. We have brought in a little heater that is now giving him more warmth

again....thank you all so very much for your advise!
regards
sue ( Busta's advocate)

 

[Laura]

if he is not warm enough, he will not eat.. or be able to digest.. is he pooping?
if he sits under a heat lamp, he can get too hot and the shell can be damaged, burned.
Can you get a stanfield heat mat?

 

[ascott]

bump