Brazilian Clads in the United States Discussion/Inquire

[tortadise]

I wanted to start this topic for discussion as well to inquire on keepers out there.
I am pretty well versed in keeping the clads of chelonoidis carbonaria in our vast collection specific to origin and range originally imported from. But I am not very well versed on the clads(or sub clads even) of eastern and some extend into the range of northeastern foundin Brazil. I know there are 5 possibly more of the. Brazilian clads.

Manny see "dwarf" to "giant" cherry heads. But really they are of different locale throughout the vast landscape of Brazil. Some are new tropical, savanna, and even dry thorn brush semi arid dwellers.

I have had my male cherry head for 15 years now since it had it's egg tooth. The female paired with him died after tunneling under the greenhouse and was not found unfortunately until the structure was demoed. So I have lost the suitable clad specific female for him.

He is what you would call a "dwarf" very small only at almost 9" straight length and fully functional at breeding. I feel his growth was next to perfect for a captive specimen. His growth lines are beginning to smooth like a polished bowling ball. Which is typical in older specimens or wild collected specimens.

Anyways I would really like to find a female for him. But I'm not after any just "cherry head" I want him paired with a cladding to his territory.

Interested to hear others views on this. I have failed to find documents or PDF studies on detailed clads within Brazil alone. Perhaps peter Pritchard might be a good source to contact.
@N2TORTS @cdmay @allegraf @Madkins007

I'll get pics of him up soon.

 

[tortadise]

 

[IBeenEasy]

lol i dont know what the hell it is you have going on over there, but you sir, have some great looking tortoises, very nice! i havent got the space for red foots yet, but eventually i will work with this species when space allows it

 

[IBeenEasy]

also some thing i have always wondered , what is the difference between red foot and cherry head? they look extremely similar

 

[tortadise]

also some thing i have always wondered , what is the difference between red foot and cherry head? they look extremely similar

Why thanks. Cherry heads are from the eastern clad, typically only found in Brazil. There's 5 clads Northern(Venezuelan some Guyana)Western(Peru, columbian) northeastern(Suriname, Guyana, French Guiana) Eastern(Brazil) and gran chaco(Bolivia, Paraguay and some south west Brazil. Probably have so,e wrong. But hard to explain as they're cladded by type, and some are found in neighboring countries. Which wild does not know nor keep country lines.

 

[IBeenEasy]

Why thanks. Cherry heads are from the eastern clad, typically only found in Brazil. There's 5 clads Northern(Venezuelan some Guyana)Western(Peru, columbian) northeastern(Suriname, Guyana, French Guiana) Eastern(Brazil) and gran chaco(Bolivia, Paraguay and some south west Brazil. Probably have so,e wrong. But hard to explain as they're cladded by type, and some are found in neighboring countries. Which wild does not know nor keep country lines.

so its the location or area of a country they are from that decides if they are cherry head or red food ?

 

[tortadise]

so its the location or area of a country they are from that decides if they are cherry head or red food ?

Yep. They have no yet classified the types(clads) as a sub species or species. Not sure if they will or not. I don't think each clad has enough phylogenic differences to maintain a full elevated species. But definitely a sub species. Kinda like the many different box turtles here in the US. Easterns, deserts, 3 toe, 4 toe, Gulf coast, then it moves down into Mexico and has all those species there.

 

[IBeenEasy]

Yep. They have no yet classified the types(clads) as a sub species or species. Not sure if they will or not. I don't think each clad has enough phylogenic differences to maintain a full elevated species. But definitely a sub species. Kinda like the many different box turtles here in the US. Easterns, deserts, 3 toe, 4 toe, Gulf coast, then it moves down into Mexico and has all those species there.

so technically a cherry head could breed with a redfoot, and the result would be normal torts, just a mix of different localities ?

 

[IBeenEasy]

Yep. They have no yet classified the types(clads) as a sub species or species. Not sure if they will or not. I don't think each clad has enough phylogenic differences to maintain a full elevated species. But definitely a sub species. Kinda like the many different box turtles here in the US. Easterns, deserts, 3 toe, 4 toe, Gulf coast, then it moves down into Mexico and has all those species there.

sorry for all the questions, ive loved the red foots i just havent got to study them yet, ive been into the elongated , forstens , and travancore, also ive been looking in to Russians as well, but i do love the red foot species as well, i will slowly but surely study all of the species im interested to

 

[tortadise]

so technically a cherry head could breed with a redfoot, and the result would be normal torts, just a mix of different localities ?

Yep. Would be an inter grade technically. But still a Redfoot. Not many people keep, breed or separate the Redfoots they have. But they will separate the cherry heads because they're so different looking and vibrantly colored.

 

[tortadise]

sorry for all the questions, ive loved the red foots i just havent got to study them yet, ive been into the elongated , forstens , and travancore, also ive been looking in to Russians as well, but i do love the red foot species as well, i will slowly but surely study all of the species im interested to

Indotestudo are awesome. I keep quite a few of each minus travancorica. Very limited available in the United States. Also India does not allow export either. Even if they did they would be tough as there CITES 1 listed.

 

[IBeenEasy]

ye i know! i was lucky enough to get two elongated's! studied those for two years before i could find a decent place to get some

 

[Bryan]

I keep Brazilian and Bolivian animals and I keep them separated so that they are locale pure. There is a great deal of variability within redfoots to not need to create intergrades IMO. Look at the variability that Allegra has within her Brazilian animals for example.

Especially in terms of Gran Chaco animals where they are not produced at the same rates as other locales in captivity it is important that they are kept pure IMO.

 

[N2TORTS]

Very well written Kelly. I also keep my Cherries separate .....All of the names you mentioned are very well versed on them ....as well as Mr. Joe Terry.

 

[tortadise]

Very well written Kelly. I also keep my Cherries separate .....All of the names you mentioned are very well versed on them ....as well as Mr. Joe Terry.

Yessir. But I'd like to know possibly which clad my little guy is from. Trying to pair him up with a female. Do many people have the smaller variant cherry heads. Which is what my male seems to dipict in his very small adult size.

 

[Bryan]

Yessir. But I'd like to know possibly which clad my little guy is from. Trying to pair him up with a female. Do many people have the smaller variant cherry heads. Which is what my male seems to dipict in his very small adult size.

I have one animal that might fit the description however he is a male. He appears to be a wild caught specimen or he had a cruel owner previous to the last guy that I got him from as there was a small hole drilled in his plastron presumably to keep him in a string tied up from running away. He is a very high energy animal.

 

[IBeenEasy]

I have one animal that might fit the description however he is a male. He appears to be a wild caught specimen or he had a cruel owner previous to the last guy that I got him from as there was a small hole drilled in his plastron presumably to keep him in a string tied up from running away. He is a very high energy animal.

he put a hole in the tortoises shell? wtff is that, wow people never seize to amaze with the dumb, and disgusting things they doo

 

[tortadise]

he put a hole in the tortoises shell? wtff is that, wow people never seize to amaze with the dumb, and disgusting things they doo

I have a few Kinixys Spekii from east Africa that have holes where strings were. Either from collection and then string them up or keep them in the yard like a chained up dog. Very common in many nations. Sad for sure.

 

[IBeenEasy]

I have a few Kinixys Spekii from east Africa that have holes where strings were. Either from collection and then string them up or keep them in the yard like a chained up dog. Very common in many nations. Sad for sure.

i really feel disgusted to read that, thats truly a shame.

 

[Elohi]

Thank you for this thread. I don't own any, but this is fascinating and that tortoise is just flat gorgeous.


Elohi(Earth)