Big white stone??!!! Please help!!!

Amel

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This came out of my tiny 5 year Greek tort-Asian minor, this morning. She seems to be ok now, but it’s huge! I don’t know how it has happened, I didn’t see anything last night.

What is this? Is it a bladder stone?

If so, what should I do? Do I take her to the vets to get checked over?

She’s had a soak this morning, I try to do this every day as I noticed she doesn’t really drink water, just bathes in it instead. Does this have anything to do with it?
IMG_1110.jpgIMG_1553609655.811855.jpgIMG_1553609688.878218.jpg

Am I not recognising something?!


Hi IMG_1111.jpg
 

Amel

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IMG_1111.jpgIMG_1109.jpgIMG_1553609853.998228.jpgIMG_1553609875.823566.jpg

Sorry I don’t think photos worked, she’s seems herself now though
 

Yvonne G

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Oh my, that poor little tortoise. CAn you imagine how much that must've hurt?

Yes, that's a bladder stone. It's caused not only by dehydration, but by diet too. Feeding a lot of foods, frequently, from the brassica family tends to contribute to forming stones (broccoli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, cabbage, turnip greens, collards, kale, bok choy.These are great food items, but should be part of a varied diet and not fed exclusively).
 

Amel

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Oh my, that poor little tortoise. CAn you imagine how much that must've hurt?

Yes, that's a bladder stone. It's caused not only by dehydration, but by diet too. Feeding a lot of foods, frequently, from the brassica family tends to contribute to forming stones (broccoli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, cabbage, turnip greens, collards, kale, bok choy.These are great food items, but should be part of a varied diet and not fed exclusively).

I know! My poor little Itzel, I worried so much that I ended up taking her to the vets. They also confirmed what you have, Yvonne. Thank you for your useful advice. 2 soaks and more varied diet.

Vet says she’s fine but has given pain relief and to monitor her for a while.
 

Markw84

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The stones that tortoises can form, like this one, is mainly a result of too high a concentration of uric acid in the bladder. Cooler temperatures dramatically effect the soluability of Uric acid, and at lower temps, it does precipitate into crystals and stones quite readily. This is a process of manly protein metabolism. The more protein in the diet, the more uric acid will be formed. So a diet higher in protein will be a main contributor to possible stone development. In humans, often teh main culprit can be the brassica family foods with high oxalates. This can form calcium oxalate crystals and then stones in the bladder in mammals, and what some people are susceptible to. However, tortoises seem unaffected by oxalates, and all tested uroliths (stones) are really purine (protein metabolism) based and do not contain calcium.

The better hydrated your tortoise is, the more they will dump the water in their bladder and replace it with fresher water - thus keeping the concentration of uric acid as low as possible. If you ever notice, as a tortoise drinks, they normally will dump water at the same time. This is the most efficient way to reduce concentrations of uric acid in their water they are holding (storing). So having plenty of water available is key for your tortoise. Frequent bathing can certainly assist this as well as they normally will drink, or at least dump water in the bath - which will stimulate them to drink then or later.

As mentioned, cooler temperatures are a key factor as well. As long as body temps are in a good metabolic range, the normal concentrations of uric acid can remain in solution in the bladder and will not precipitate. However, as temperatures dip below 70° we see the ability of uric acid to stay in solution dramatically drop. So cooler temperatures are are common, but overlooked issue in a tortoise developing stones. Any tortoise naturally subjected to cooler temperatures for any period, will normally stop eating and clear their gut of any foods and thus the subsequent formation of uric acids and purines. This equips them to brumate (hibernate) safely. So exposure to cooler temperatures along with food, especially a higher protein food, is a recipe for possible problems.

Since tortoise uroliths are purine - thus protein based, the diet needs to be watched for high protein food items. I know most people and most vets still seem to think oxalates and the brassicas are a main concern, that is really a misapplication of our knowledge about human stone formation.

So, for my tortoises, it is proper hydration, proper metabolic temperatures, and keeping protein intake at lower levels that would be the keys I would pay attention to as far as stone formations.
 
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