Baby Redfoot(s) Question-Bullying Aggression? Behavior issues...

[crabby-J]

HI tortoise people, I probably ask the same/dumb questions over and over but now I have yet another...

So I have 4 Baby Redfoots (the 4th-the baby is living in her own enclosure)

I've had 3 now for 1-1.5 years all living together somewhat peacefully...
So let me explain "peacefully":

I first got a baby redfoot and he lived alone for a month or 2 until I got another, they lived together fine for about 3-4 months with no issues...than came my baby cherry head...she was smaller then the other 2 but fit in well size wise and had no issues for months until I noticed my 2nd redfoot was not eating or gaining weight.

I determined it was the new cherryhead being a bully...so I separated my 2nd redfoot to allow her to eat and gain weight which she did.

so recently I put all 3 back together and everything has been fine and great until tonight my cherryhead bit my oldest and 1st redfoot in the neck while they were eating. I'm not sure if it was on purpose or she thought he was a mushroom but it scared the bejesus out of me and luckily my redfoot was not harmed....

so enough was enough, my cherryhead was a bully to my 2nd redfoot the first time and now a bully to my 1st redfoot for the last time so she is now in a separate blocked off area within the enclosure until I build her a separate one.

.....so with my cherryhead in solitary, that bring me to my 2nd redfoot (the one I had separated for a few months to gain weight after getting bullied by the cherryhead) I know tortoises will compete over food, I have seen this from the start and normally watch them eat just in case, but sometimes I dont' but tonight I noticed the bite so I'm glad I was watching..anyway...

When my 2nd redfoot is eating, she sits in the middle of the dish and block the other torts from eating (which is ironic since they did that to her months ago....)

She does this with all of them and now I'm worried she will start to bite my 1st redfoot...

I feel like I'm confusing everyone...or maybe I'm nuts or both...but I see other people with multiple baby torts living together "peacefully" and I'm confused as to why mine can't live this way. I know I would have issues like this in the future when they get older but my oldest tortoise is only 1.5-2 years old!!! I don't know what normal behavior looks like!! What is normal, what is aggression, bullying?? Should I keep all of my BABY tortoises separate ALREADY!!?

HELP! *cries*

 

[dmmj]

the one funny thing about tortoise behavior is you could put a hundred groups of tortoises together some of them fine some of them fight there's no Rhyme or Reason. Large enclosures, lots of sight barriers and multiple hides usually help with aggression sometimes it doesn't you have to either keep them separate from the beginning or keep together and watch closely if they were mine I would keep them separate but that may not be feasible so you have to make a choice 1 way or the other.

 

[MPRC]

My cherryhead is a bully too. She weighs less than a pound and the other two are 4lb and 12lb and she runs right up and rams them, bites their feet and sits in the food dish and chases them away. She's not allowed out unsupervised with them until she learns some manners or they learn to stand up to the pipsqueak.

How big in the shared enclosure?

 

[wellington]

The sitting on the food is a sign of aggression/dominance. S/he wants the food and doesn't want anyone else to have any. I have been told before, that once they are seperated, it is harder to get them to live together again without dominance/aggression. If you want to try and keep them together, give them all their own food dish. Put the dishes in the same spot every time and put each tort in front of their food dish and the same tort to the same dish in the same spot. Eventually they will catch on to where their food is. This will allow everyone to eat. Watch them and if someone heads to another's dish, put them back to their dish. Eventually and hopefully there will be no more food aggression. Now for other times there may be aggression, make sure the enclosure is large, has a couple different hides, and lots of sight barriers. Hopefully this will give them all the space and food they want without having to fight for it and fingers crossed, they will live happy together. Red foots are one of the species that has a better chance of getting along, so that's on your side of making it work. Good luck and keep us posted.
Btw, even if it does work out, this doesn't mean you will never see some aggression. Everyone/thing has its grumpier days

 

[ascott]

HI tortoise people, I probably ask the same/dumb questions over and over but now I have yet another...

So I have 4 Baby Redfoots (the 4th-the baby is living in her own enclosure)

I've had 3 now for 1-1.5 years all living together somewhat peacefully...
So let me explain "peacefully":

I first got a baby redfoot and he lived alone for a month or 2 until I got another, they lived together fine for about 3-4 months with no issues...than came my baby cherry head...she was smaller then the other 2 but fit in well size wise and had no issues for months until I noticed my 2nd redfoot was not eating or gaining weight.

I determined it was the new cherryhead being a bully...so I separated my 2nd redfoot to allow her to eat and gain weight which she did.

so recently I put all 3 back together and everything has been fine and great until tonight my cherryhead bit my oldest and 1st redfoot in the neck while they were eating. I'm not sure if it was on purpose or she thought he was a mushroom but it scared the bejesus out of me and luckily my redfoot was not harmed....

so enough was enough, my cherryhead was a bully to my 2nd redfoot the first time and now a bully to my 1st redfoot for the last time so she is now in a separate blocked off area within the enclosure until I build her a separate one.

.....so with my cherryhead in solitary, that bring me to my 2nd redfoot (the one I had separated for a few months to gain weight after getting bullied by the cherryhead) I know tortoises will compete over food, I have seen this from the start and normally watch them eat just in case, but sometimes I dont' but tonight I noticed the bite so I'm glad I was watching..anyway...

When my 2nd redfoot is eating, she sits in the middle of the dish and block the other torts from eating (which is ironic since they did that to her months ago....)

She does this with all of them and now I'm worried she will start to bite my 1st redfoot...

I feel like I'm confusing everyone...or maybe I'm nuts or both...but I see other people with multiple baby torts living together "peacefully" and I'm confused as to why mine can't live this way. I know I would have issues like this in the future when they get older but my oldest tortoise is only 1.5-2 years old!!! I don't know what normal behavior looks like!! What is normal, what is aggression, bullying?? Should I keep all of my BABY tortoises separate ALREADY!!?

HELP! *cries*

What was your original plan when you added from one to three? I mean, what was your housing plan and your back up plan incase your hopes on the first set up did not pan out?

Two of the four Redfoot torts here came to me as a "pair"...well, it took a short amount of time for me to see that the only part of the word "pair" that was true is that they don't do well as a pair....even a redfoot tortoise. One of them literally bite the toes off of the other in two quick bites...it took the passive tort months before it shed the dead skin and toe nails from the injured areas...I am a firm believer, from experience, that tortoise have no desire nor tolerance of one another if given a choice....and if not given a choice one will dominate and one will fade away....

I utilize individual yards or enclosures for each tortoise...the only pair I have here at the present is a pair of Red Ear Sliders...both females to date and I am always keeping an eye out for their deciding moment to be solo....

 

[crabby-J]

Thanks but I'm still confused, my enclosure is large-would need to get exact size, they have multiple sleeping areas and all sleep alone in their own hides, they seem fine when not eating, I do have multiple bowls and they all crowd to one bowl no matter how many times I "move" them in front of their own.

as far as sight barriers I'm trying to grow some plants to put in the enclosure since I can't find any that don't have chems or ferts so plants are out until my baby spider plants grow since they eat them in 2 days the size they are now..I don't trust putting fake plants in because I know they will eat them..

I'm just confused I see so many other people in this forum and in FB groups that have multi redfoots living together, eating together even sleeping together..

To reply to my "back up plan" Like i said they are all babies..like my largest is the size of my hand right now so I had no idea this soon they would have issues..I thought they would all be bigger and mature before I had problems and I would have my own place to separate them..I guess I was wrong..

I keep reading that yes its fine to house redfoots together, they like living with other redfoots and reading NO that is wrong they don't like living with other redfoots...I'm just deciding on keeping my oldest and adopting the rest out

 

[crabby-J]

My cherryhead is a bully too. She weighs less than a pound and the other two are 4lb and 12lb and she runs right up and rams them, bites their feet and sits in the food dish and chases them away. She's not allowed out unsupervised with them until she learns some manners or they learn to stand up to the pipsqueak.

How big in the shared enclosure?

They are cute, Do they really learn manners though? My cherryhead has been a problem since I got her as a hatchling

 

[Anyfoot]

Thanks but I'm still confused, my enclosure is large-would need to get exact size, they have multiple sleeping areas and all sleep alone in their own hides, they seem fine when not eating, I do have multiple bowls and they all crowd to one bowl no matter how many times I "move" them in front of their own.

as far as sight barriers I'm trying to grow some plants to put in the enclosure since I can't find any that don't have chems or ferts so plants are out until my baby spider plants grow since they eat them in 2 days the size they are now..I don't trust putting fake plants in because I know they will eat them..

I'm just confused I see so many other people in this forum and in FB groups that have multi redfoots living together, eating together even sleeping together..

To reply to my "back up plan" Like i said they are all babies..like my largest is the size of my hand right now so I had no idea this soon they would have issues..I thought they would all be bigger and mature before I had problems and I would have my own place to separate them..I guess I was wrong..

I keep reading that yes its fine to house redfoots together, they like living with other redfoots and reading NO that is wrong they don't like living with other redfoots...I'm just deciding on keeping my oldest and adopting the rest out

Is your Brazilian bullying at every feed?
What are you feeding?

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Over the years I have needed to rehome a few tortoises for not getting along with others. Most recently it was an overly amorous male and two older, slower adult females that were getting pushed around.
When you find a balance and everyone seems to get along, stop adding tortoises.
Until then I wish you luck.

 

[MPRC]

The "manners" thing may have been more of a wishful thinking type thing. I'm willing to bet she's going to continue to be a monster, unless she's just testing her boundaries. She doesn't ram or act aggressive toward me, but my poor 6ft+ 200lb boyfriend is the constant focus of her "attacks". It's cute when it's on him, I just worry that as she grows she may actually cause issues with Vern and Rambo.

 

[crabby-J]

I feed organic everything..apples, dandelion greens, turnip greens, spring mix, papaya, melon, strawberries, mushrooms, radicchio, chicken, butterworms, you name it, it varies daily, how does that make a difference?

I'm not going to add tortoises, everyone said it was ok from the get go, "redfoots are best in groups" ...um don't think so! I know several people that have pairs and I thought that was wrong as well?

The thing is I don't know what my tortoises sex are, they are too young, I don't know if I have males or females or both, they are only a year old still

The cherry head never bullies, she only did for awhile, the other redfoot my 2nd one is the bully who I had separated and reunited

 

[crabby-J]

This is all new from what i have noticed, I understand my redfoot that i separated to be a bully, she was alone for a few months that makes sense, but my 1st redfoot and cherry head have been together for almost a year and never had problem til yesterday

 

[ZEROPILOT]

How big is your enclosure?
You said it is large.
I've never had any aggressive behavior issues. (Like biting)
When I had a tortoise that starting sitting in the food, I began to scatter it in several places. I still have her and she doesn't do it any more.
She also would hog the water pool. I made a second one. She stopped that as well.
The pen has multiples of everything and enough room to get far away from each other.

 

[Anyfoot]

I feed organic everything..apples, dandelion greens, turnip greens, spring mix, papaya, melon, strawberries, mushrooms, radicchio, chicken, butterworms, you name it, it varies daily, how does that make a difference?

I'm not going to add tortoises, everyone said it was ok from the get go, "redfoots are best in groups" ...um don't think so! I know several people that have pairs and I thought that was wrong as well?

The thing is I don't know what my tortoises sex are, they are too young, I don't know if I have males or females or both, they are only a year old still

The cherry head never bullies, she only did for awhile, the other redfoot my 2nd one is the bully who I had separated and reunited

I was trying to work out if they were turning on each other when you feed animal protein. If I feed mine let's say pinkies and they get blood on the feet, others will snap at feet, for thd blood. Also all my reds,adults and juveniles turn mad when meat is in sight. Not sure if they would act like this with mazuri or not, I don't feed it.(was wondering if you do).
All my weekly protein feeds are done outside the closed enclosures.
Doesn't sound like this is your case.
Try just dandilion and mushroom tomorrow and see what happens. I'm curious.
I can't understand why I don't get bullying with all my reds, and others see such aggression. Maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

We all seem to have different experiences with our different types of enclosures, climates and food, etc.
So while it can be said that generally Redfoot do well in groups. Not every group, everywhere.
I don't feed bloody stuff and almost no raw meat, ever.

 

[Anyfoot]

We all seem to have different experiences with our different types of enclosures, climates and food, etc.
So while it can be said that generally Redfoot do well in groups. Not every group, everywhere.
I don't feed bloody stuff and almost no raw meat, ever.

Have you experienced aggression to point where they bite each other?

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Have you experienced aggression to point where they bite each other?

No.
I've seen some pushing when I had the two older girls with the younger adults. But no biting. Ever.
Except my shoes.

 

[MPRC]

Have you experienced aggression to point where they bite each other?

My little one will nibble, but not grab and pull. I honestly think she's going after their feet and faces because shes really greedy about food.

 

[Anyfoot]

We all seem to have different experiences with our different types of enclosures, climates and food, etc.
So while it can be said that generally Redfoot do well in groups. Not every group, everywhere.
I don't feed bloody stuff and almost no raw meat, ever.

I was thinking originally, could crabby's torts have food on them, like blood,mazuri banana or strawberry juice(anything they go mad for) to cause the biting at each other. That's why I said just feed dandies and mushrooms to eradicate that theory.
Then........

Could it be a redfoots natural instinct/need for animal protein kicking in, if the need is not met, they turn on each other. If they were my torts I would feed them 2 or 3 pinkies each(just as a one off may be) then wash the torts and see what happens over the next few days. I would try everytjing possible before deciding to get rid of some, must be an answer. Horrible situation to be in.

 

[Anyfoot]

It would be interesting to see what sex these guys turn out to be.