baby not eating

[Loohan]

I have a baby box turtle that showed up hatchling-sized at my cabin in August. He had a good appetite and was eating a grasshopper or cricket most days, until it got cold (even though i kept him warm). In fact he grew a bit.
I have read various articles on brumation, including one that said that turtles are likely to sort of quasi-brumate a spell, regardless of what you do.
He hasn't eaten in like 6 weeks now, except once he ate part of a grasshopper, and he MIGHT have eaten a fair-sized worm (at least it disppeared somehow) like a month ago.
I soak him in tepid water 2-3X a week, but he hasn't pooped at all in like 5 weeks, even after he ate that time.
I worry because he's so tiny, but he seems healthy and i presume he will eat if he needs it. I do offer food occasionally.

He is, of course, mostly inactive, but if i soak him a while, he gets a bit hyper, wanting to look around the room and crawl around. A few days ago i soaked him, and held him a while, then when i put my hand back in his box, instead of climbing back into his litter, he crawled up my arm. We are pretty close friends.

I have never ever seen him drink at all.
A few weeks ago i noticed his throat/gullet moving in and out like a bullfrog's. I had never noticed this before but now it seems like an ordinary part of his behavior.

 

[Loohan]

Wo, in
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/one-way-to-keep-your-baby-alive.105783/
it says
"Tortoises need to have an interior temperature of 80 to 85 otherwise they can't digest their food." Is this true? I had read they need 75 during the day and 70 at night.
Do i just need to keep him warmer? Maybe with a tiny infrared heater? Seems to me he had an appetite at 75ish in the past.

 

[Loohan]

OK, having done a little more reading, i'm thinking that i should order a small heat mat
http://www.bigappleherp.com/Intellitemp-Reptile-Heat-Mats
(yes i watched the vid) as well as the fancy thermostat.
Now about light, my feeling is, baby tortoises spend most of their time ploughed under a bunch of debris and don't bask in the sun. And the proper bulbs are expensive, short-lived, and kind of a lot for 1 tiny turtle. And i can hold off on that. Is my thinking correct?

 

[Yvonne G]

Baby box turtles dry out very quickly because they are so small. Can we see pictures of the habitat where you keep the baby?

I soak my baby box turtles daily, and I add black worms to the soaking water. (blackworms are those tiny worms people buy to feed their aquarium fish). You can also buy frozen bloodworms, but the live worms are better because the movement causes an eating reflex in the turtle.

Your habitat should have a moist substrate with leaf litter to hide under, some plants either real or fake, to allow him to feel safe and secure, a waterer that he can climb in and out of safely, and a food tile. I use a Mercury Vapor Bulb for my heat source plus it gives off UVB, but with a strong bulb like that, you have to be sure there is plenty of shade in the habitat.

 

[Loohan]

I could take a pic of his box but it would no be very enlightening. It is just a rectangular plastic box about 9X12" and 7" high, with a damp mix of forest duff including rotted wood and broken leaves.
He is inactive and would not go into a bath by himself. I never hear him scratch around during the day or night, except right after i put him back in and he is re-burying himself.
And he would not eat anything i left. He used to eat heartily right in front of me even during the first week i had him.
Recently i have tried to tempt him with chard, basil, and raw and cooked chicken liver, both in a dry and wet bowl.

I used to keep him in a bigger plastic box, about 2X3' with a water bowl. That was in the summer but even then, being a baby, he didn't roam around much. If i put him outside on the gravel he would rapidly scurry over to the nearest possible shady hiding place.

 

[Yvonne G]

In that case, I think he's not warm enough and he's thinking he needs to hibernate. Keep his light on for 14 hours a day and get him up and moving every time you walk by his enclosure.

 

[Loohan]

Well just now i took him out of his cage and he was quite active right away. Maybe because i have been keeping him a bit warmer the last few days. He looks good. I am awaiting a new camera-to-USB cord and as soon as that arrives i'll take some newer pics.
He started crawling around my hands so i put him in a clear container and he's roaming around. Put some freshly-cooked egg and bit of turkey meat in front of him, but no interest.
Watching him, he seems fine.

 

[Loohan]

Well, the durn camera USB cord still has not arrived.
I got the little heat mat and thermostat, and now have it so he has a range of temperatures to choose in his little box. I suspect this is important to his well-being. I still have not bought a light, as he seems to bury himself anyway. Also i am away from home on vacation for another 10 days or so, so can't get too elaborate with a setup.
Assuming i can keep him alive, after i get back home i will make him a big enclosure with "pond", feeding dish, plants, etc.

I bought some meal worms yesterday at Petco, but he wasn't interested when i put some in a dry container with him.

This morning, having read that torts like to eat at dawn, i put him in a warm soak early and offered more worms in the water. No interest.
After a while he perked up and got more active. He LOOKS healthy, shiny eyes, crisp head movement, interesting in peering around, holds head high, yawned a couple times but seemed alert. When he closed his mouth from the yawns, each time there woud be a slight creaking sound, as though he was "cracking his jaw knuckles".

After he had soaked a while and started treading water strongly with his nose to the glass, i took him out and held him. He seemed very secure, not trying to escape, but looking around, head high, with interest. Walked up my arm. Craning his neck up to 90 degrees at times.
This is when he yawned a couple times, still seeming alert, though.
After 10 minutes or so he got bored and tried to bury himself in the crook of my arm against my chest, so i put him back.

 

[lisa127]

Box turtles need temps in the 70's and 80's. They need to be kept humid and warm. He also needs a 5.0 UVB tube, left on about 14 hours a day to trick him into thinking it's summer. When mine were babies they loved red wigglers and soaked reptomin sticks.

 

[M249saw]

Im in the same boat as you currently. Healthy otherwise but not eating, I've only had mine 3 days now.

 

[Loohan]

Not quite the same boat. Mine started eating right away when i got him, and his appetite did not falter until Nov. Might be due to decreased photoperiod.
Best of luck. Hopefully just a short-term thing

 

[HLogic]

As Loohan suggested, the change in photoperiod (i.e. the daylight getting shorter each day) is a more likely culprit than temperature. That may change now that the days are getting longer. Even with artificial lighting, animals are well aware of and respond to external cues such as daylength. You may want to try lengthening the photoperiod by 15 - 30 minutes per week starting with about 10 hours. This *may* trigger a 'spring time is here' rejuvenation in its appetite.

 

[Loohan]

Thanks, HL. I'll put a timer on my shopping list.
Yeah, when his appetite took a nose-dive in Nov, I WAS keeping him fairly warm. I heat with wood so there was some fluctuation, but i also sometimes used an electric heater near him. Usually around 75 during the day with occasional dips maybe, and sometimes up to 80 F, and usually 60-70 at night.
But since he spends most of his time buried under stuff, i didn't take lighting too seriously.

I've gotten in the habit of giving him a daily warm soak early in the mornings now. Yesterday i put 4 meal worms in a jar lid in his box, but they are all still there. Next i will try some of those puny crickets from petsmart; he always relished crickets last summer.

 

[Loohan]

Good news! There is some circumstantial evidence that little Rorg is eating again.
Yesterday morning he was not his usual frisky self during/after his soak. Like he had run out of gas. He still had those 4 live mealworms in his jar lid that had been there for days. Also i added a piece of ripe banana and a sliver of kiwi.
I checked yesterday afternoon, and he had tracked detritus into the lid and smooshed the fruit without eating any, but the worms were gone.
I cleaned the lid and put in 6 more worms. They were still there this morning. I gave him a long soak and played with him a bit, took some pics. Unfortunately i didn't catch his yawn (accompanied by a creaking sound as he closed his mouth). And put him back in the box. Just now i noticed he had tracked stuff into the lid again, and 5 of the 6 worms were gone. I just added 5 more, and another sliver of kiwi.

Also i have ordered a Reptisun 5.0 bulb (and a spare), a timer, and lamp for the bulb. I will get a big plastic tub. I already have a bunch of coir. When i get back from vacation i'll fix him up with a proper residence.

 

[TortsNTurtles]

What a cutie!!!!

 

[Loohan]

Yeah he is.
He just apparently ate 5 more meal worms. He left the slice of kiwi and piece of kale, and 1 worm again.
Every day lately i give him a good soak around dawn, then put him back. I check back an hour or so later, and he is buried and the food untouched. Check back around noon, and he has apparently eaten.
I clean the lid, add fresh food, and he never eats it until late the following morning. So far this year.
Today i will check what other live foods the nearby Petsmart has. I realize that mealworms alone are not an optimal diet.

Eagerly awaiting his first turd of the year.

 

[Loohan]

Still no turd but he is eating better. Ate some more mealworms, then i got him some small superworms yesterday, and he's eaten several.
This morning i put a couple in his soak bath. He ate one with difficulty. They are about 1" long and in the water they slip out of his mouth when he tries to bite them. So i took the other injured one and put it in my palm, and the turtle too, and he snarfed it right away. Then he ate another out of my hand. He still seemed hungry, so i offered him a 4th. He only tore up its butt and then lost interest.

I also had offered him a small piece of mache (corn salad) yesterday morning which he did not touch. But the superworms ate a hole in it. So i put a bit of mache in the worm container, and it quickly disappeared beneath the bran with a bunch of churning activity. It was gone this morning. Evidently superworms eat greens. I fed them more this morning, including a chunk of leathery organic purple kale.

 

[Loohan]

Here he is eating a couple superworms this morning.
Notice twice there is a creaking sound. That is his jaw closing. He makes the same sound whenever he closes his mouth after yawning.

 

[Torch]

Both of mine make that creaky sound when eating a mouthful. I've come to accept it as normal.

 

[Loohan]

Both of mine make that creaky sound when eating a mouthful. I've come to accept it as normal.

Yes, shortly after i posted that, i stumbled across "stridulation".
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/search/2192970/?q=stridulation&o=relevance

Anyway he's doing good. I just got back home and am fixing up an enclosure for him. He's gotten stronger and can chomp superworms in the water no problem. I am feeding him in the water in the belief that swallowing a few incidental drops of water won't hurt him. He never drinks or opens his mouth underwater otherwise. I don't know if that's common for a baby 3-toed.