- Joined
- Nov 23, 2013
- Messages
- 110
Thank you for message No the female has not experienced MEE
Fantastic source art. No offense taken at all. Old sources are very inaccurate. I do still like to read them though to see the pioneering of biology increase in more detail and new findings.Kelly, that reference concludes that both pectoral scute configurations belong to the same 'species'. In reality, the two were given subspecific differentiation before the writing of the text (http://www.reptilia.net/articulos_ing/029.pdf - see Taxonomy). The text indicates the two subspecies were considered to have full generic distinction - T. phayrei vs. M. emys and the difference was sexual dimorphism not a subspecific morphological trait. Additionally, the specimens mentioned were supposedly collected in the northwestern limits (Arakan, Assam & Cachar) of Mep range and it is known [now] that Mee do not exist there. (http://www.chelonian.org/ttn/archives/ttn5/pp2-6.shtml - see Range Map). I cannot offer a resolution to those inconsistencies but would suggest there was some confusion or inaccuracy. This may be best illustrated by the last statement of the article on page 144. --no offense intended but it is hazardous to use old references...
@johndesiles, have you had the female tortoise longer than 2 to 4 years? If not, is it possible the female was kept in the same enclosure with Mee? Perhaps something of that nature is responsible. It is also possible the male is 75% Mep and 25% Mee or some other mostly Mep intergrade.
...just trying to cover all bases...
...Their PHAYREI...dont worry about it. M.e.e and M.E.phayrei are very closely related. Tortoises from the middle of their range can share some trates. So for 30,000,000 years some animals on the North/South Kline (Thailand and now Burma*) L. McKaskill * per com. will have interbred somewhere along the line and then it is deluded out or become a midland sub. In some species there are named "midland species" if they breed "true to type". So, we get throw back trates or bits and pieces of the evaluational change from M.E.P. to M.E.E or the other way around. I talked to Dr.Peter Pritchard about this as we were looking at some in my collection. Being the wise a.. that I am I ask him "just what is the stratagee of survival in the evaluation of Pectoral scutes" he looked a one a few minutes then said, " The pectoral area of their shell is the only place that they could "become smaller" " It seems to make sense as M.e.e are smaller than M.e.p with smaller pectoral scutes. If Nature wants to have a intergrade that is fine but we as keepers should not interbreed. Its foolish, and devalues captive born Mt.Torts. for everyone. This sub forum is the only place that talks about intergrades/hybreds Manouria all the time. For now there only a few known mutts out there. We need to keep them apart from each other or it will make a mess of everything. These are majestic tortoises from yesteryear, not pet snakes bred like Koi/goldfish for the mass market. I'll be on facebook now with a weekly report of what is going on here at Defying Destiny Mt.Tortoise reserve. I'll check in here from time to time. You can ask me questions on mt.Torts anytime on my message board on facebook. Come on be and be FRIEND-ED. Vic MorganThank you for your messages very very interesting
I am very interested, will you know a genetic laboratory for genetic identification
I agree with you, for me it seems MEP, but you never know?
Why would you come to this conclusion? The thick group of growth lines mean nothing but that it was a captive animal that never experienced an abrasive substrate. If they are worn down by tortoise substrate friction you get a center line with pectoral scutes extending to the midline. You may be over thinking it. VicGreat news, John!!! I'm so happy for you.
I guess this means that the dad is actually an intergrade, and not full phayrei.