Abused tortoises in the news

[drgnfly2265]

I think this is the article that we were talking about a while ago, but I cant remember. I just seen this today...

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/09/animal_cruelty_charges_sought.html

This article is crazy and I can not believe that they took the tortoises away! They said that them having water is bad for them??? All I can say is OMG! This is horrible!

I don't know what noises they make, but I'm sure if they are mating they might make some kind of noise.

I would be so upset and going after the state if they every tried anything like this... They look healthy to me...

 

[blafiriravt]

A hell of a lot better looking than some of the ones I've seen in zoo pictures.

 

[drgnfly2265]

A hell of a lot better looking than some of the ones I've seen in zoo pictures.

I know right. It just blows my mind!

I'm not sure about the whole permit thing since we don't have those in Florda, but everything else is plain crazy!

 

[dmmj]

Personally I would have put up a fight

 

[Stephanie]

Maybe Aldabraman can comment on this- I would interested in his thoughts.
To me, they do not look abused/neglected. I suppose seeing pictures of where they lived might help, though (like the actual size of the backyard, for instance). It seems like another case of ignorance throughout a branch of the humane society. A tortoise doesn't need water? Doesn't need a soak? It's bad for them? Hmmm, seems like desert tortoises should have limited access to water, according to that member of the humane society. How exactly has water worked out for your sulcatas, everyone? How about your CDTs?
I'm glad the quoted party in that article is not the one who will end up with those beautiful animals.
In parts of the United States, the SPCA are just a bunch of bullies who throw around animal abuse charges like they're going out of style- seems like New Jersey is one of them.

I wish the owners had had the permits they needed to keep their tortoises when they moved to New Jersey. It would be saving them a lot of heartache right now- not to mention to tortoises themselves.

 

[ascott]

I would think that one aldabra would require more space than 5being feet one way and 5the feet another? Also, wonder what the silver dollar size holes are from that they said were covered over by fiberglass? Also..we all know torts make silly noises during them getting it on...however if the big one was mating with the other two that would have been horrible as they indicate his size vs the other two...big difference...it is also mentioned that they were kept on a "patio"...now if all of these, hell, if one of these things is correct...IMO the SPCA was correct in seizing these beautiful creatures and seek out suitable conditions for them to thrive....again, IMHO....

 

[dmmj]

I am gonna argue the point on the SPCA I thimk they have to much power most of the time and are just bullies. I think this was a way for the "zoo" to get some aldabs for their exhibits. Like I said I would have put up a fight and of course gotten permits.

 

[jackrat]

I agree with David about the SPCA and the zoo/

 

[ascott]

Captain...I think I am confused by your comment on this particular article relating to these tortoise? It "sounds" as though by your comment it would have been better to have left these tortoise in "horrible" conditions rather than the SPCA stepping in and ACTUALLY BEING OF HELP IN THIS CASE ....I am not necessarily a fan of 90% of the SPCA cult type organization either.....however, in this specific case I believe it will be beneficial for these tortoise to be re-homed to either a zoo or other better equipped location......to me it would not have mattered which organization rescued them but that they were.....IMHO

 

[drgnfly2265]

I would have to put up a fight too.

I can understand that there might be a reason that they did this, but with some of the things they claim is a little odd. Like the people provided water for them and that is a bad thing? And the holes on the shell that were covered with fiberglass. Maybe one was a rescue and they tried to fix them and that is what they thought was the best to use? Maybe it isn't the best solution now, but years ago it might have? (they said they had them or some of them for 15 years)... I know there are some torts out there that have been injured and their owners have fixed their shells. But what if SPCA seen them and said that you caused the injuries? As for the space that was sectioned off. Was there other area for them?

And that's the side I'm on. The SPCA are acting like bullies with this one...

 

[ascott]

I believe if one goes back and reads the article a couple of times it is clear that a multitude of organizations were contacted and that it was not a seize strictly by the SPCA. I am so surprised that some members of this forum are seeing through lenses of red because of the dislike of one organization and not taking in all that was in the article....I don't think I would care who re-homed them as long as they were removed....a 600 a 125 and two 50 pound tortoise should not have to be confined in the same space..can you imagine the harm that could have come to one of the 50 pound torts if it had become stuck in the mud/water hole designed for the 600 pound tortoise. Wow?

Also, I did not think this thread was designed to pit sides but rather for peoples thoughts on this article? Hmmmm?

 

[Yvonne G]

I don't think the conditions were all that horrible. It takes time to build the correct type habitats and these people hadn't lived there very long. My aldabs would sit in their mud puddle day and night if I'd let them. They LOVE sitting in the mud. And they DO make noise, but its during breeding. I suppose an ignorant neighbor might construe this sound as a pitiful moaning, but its not.

In my opinion, the officials took the neighbor's word for something without doing their own homework and research and without giving the tortoise owners enough time to rectify what was considered to be a bad situation.

 

[EricIvins]

I guess I have to put my rose colored glasses on to see why those Tortoises were confiscated in the first place..........

I said it smelled fishy from the start, and it stinks even more........Do the research......Everything put forth has been inconsistant and really uneducated about the Tortoises involved........

Edit - One of the original stories........http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011309130055............Notice how the weight changes on every article, and a 200lb Female and a 500lb Male is common place in the Aldabra world for the uneducated........

 

[jaizei]

Here is where the smaller 3 were being kept...

And the biggest one...

Great enclosures, right?

How dare anyone take away those tortoises.

BRB, my dog is chained up out back and barking his head off.

 

[Yvonne G]

Don't mean to continue an argument, but without seeing it in person, all the picture shows is part of the habitat. You should see my tortoises' mud puddle after they've been splashing around in it. It looks much worse than that. And I see nothing wrong with the portion of the habitat the younger ones are in.

 

[jaizei]

Another view...

And my understanding is that this is after he made "improvements" following the first visit.

State Conservation Officer Shannon Martiak said he was tipped off to the four tortoises living in the backyard of the home of Richard Hines, 41, after a neighbor called to report finding the reptiles there while investigating loud moans being heard throughout the neighborhood.

“Those were mating moans. He may have been crying out for a female,” Martiak said.
Martiak arrived at the home on Aug. 24 and found a 575-pound tortoise – he later learned was named Big Blackjack – living on a narrow wooden deck about 4 feet wide by about 15 feet long, and saw three other tortoises found in a small dirt-filled enclosure, he said.

Hines, of the first block of Grand Tour, has no state permits to have the exotic reptiles, Martiak said, and was told by Martiak to get the four tortoises veterinary care after the reptiles were deemed living in an unacceptable environment and possibly suffering from improper exposure by living in the backyard of the home.

Days later, Martiak returned to the home to find the 575-pound creature living in a muddied enclosure measuring about 10 feet by 15 feet with a standing muddy water moat relegating the reptile to a 6-foot-by-10-foot patch of ground.

 

[EricIvins]

Here is where the smaller 3 were being kept...

And the biggest one...

Great enclosures, right?

How dare anyone take away those tortoises.

BRB, my dog is chained up out back and barking his head off.

What are you seeing that I'm not? I see pictures that look to be taken to support a bias.........Where are pictures of the actual enclosures?

Out of the 10+ Articles I've read, I still haven't found any..........Only un-educated heresay.........

 

[jaizei]

That is the enclosure. It was 4' x 15' when the complaint came in. Afterwards it was widened to 10' x 15'. No shelter. Suffering from a RI.

 

[flyingsqueak]

http://www.app.com/article/20110913...es-seized-from-Highlands-home-taken-zoo-Lacey

This article seems to do a bit of a better job explaining the situation. I think they were most likely rightfully seized with cause. It doesn't seem like a good situation--their plan for the winter was to put them in the garage? New Jersey is cold! That better be one nice garage.

 

[EricIvins]

That is the enclosure. It was 4' x 15' when the complaint came in. Afterwards it was widened to 10' x 15'. No shelter. Suffering from a RI.

Again, where are the pictures of the whole enclosure? Who determined the animal(s) had a URI? Third party or the people involved?

http://www.app.com/article/20110913...es-seized-from-Highlands-home-taken-zoo-Lacey

This article seems to do a bit of a better job explaining the situation. I think they were most likely rightfully seized with cause. It doesn't seem like a good situation--their plan for the winter was to put them in the garage? New Jersey is cold! That better be one nice garage.

How so? The weight discrepencies are priceless through all these articles, and I see the same regurgitated information........Black market Aldabras huh? When did that happen? The only difference between this article and the others is that this one names on of the Tortoises........How many keepers do you think keep their Tortoises in Garages or Basements during the winter? Even in Floriduh some of my animals get put in the Garage........Cold can be made warm, even with minimal materials, and the right ideas........

Somebody wanted free Aldabras, and they got them.......