A little help please!

[Worriedjojo2456]

Hello! I have been doing extensive research on thus forum and have built a couple good enclosures and i purchased 2 baby sulcatas. One im pretty sure is completely healthy and one that has problems. I have been giving the sick one extra calcium and added extra woodchips to hos substrate so he can build muscle in his legs, because he doesnt really stand up tall. I have a few questions that i need answered

Here is some pictures. The sick one is in a small soaking tub not his actual enclosure!


As you can she the good looking one stands up nice and tall, and he kinda lays flat on the ground and drags his shell. Ive been giving more calcium and a lot of supervised outside time along with making his substrate a little more bumpy.

But my questions are this:

Why does he have spots and the other one doesnt?

Why do the edges of his shell curl upward?


I was told they were 3 months old. They are about 2 inches long. Maybe 2 and a half. Does this seem to be a good growth rate for them?

Also. He seems to be a bit more flat than she is. (But its getting better it seems) why did that happen?

I know that i got them from an obviously crappy breeder but i am trying my best to be a good parent. I would like to know what the breeder was doing wrong.

 

[wellington]

First let's start with your care
Are they housed together?
What type of enclosure table or enclosured chamber enclosure?
Temps- basking? All over? Night?
Humidity?
Type of lighting bulbs being used and type of heat?
Diet?
How often do you soak?

Give specific answers.

 

[Worriedjojo2456]

First let's start with your care
Are they housed together?
What type of enclosure table or enclosured chamber enclosure?
Temps- basking? All over? Night?
Humidity?
Type of lighting bulbs being used and type of heat?
Diet?
How often do you soak?

Give specific answers.

Hello! I have them in separate 50 gallon rubber made tubs with coco choir mixed with some jubgle floor bark as the substrate. They each have a 75w flood bulb, a ceramic heat emitter, and a 12% arcadia HO t5 uv tube.

They eat strictly grass from my yard

Tems are basking 120, about 90 in general, and 80 on the cold side and everything gets down to about 80 at night time

Humidity is about 40 near basking spot and 80 near their hides

I soak twice a day for 30 mins in warm water


But like i said im not asking about my care, i already did the research, i only got them a week ago and they came like this. Thats why i wanted MY questions answered

 

[wellington]

Except, the basking is 120? Shouldn't be higher than 100. 95-100.
Humidity should be 80% all over maybe slightly lower under basking but the rest of the area should be 80%.

 

[wellington]

Were the two from the same clutch?
Do you know how they started them?
@Tom might be able to help about the shell curling.
As for the spots, some do some don't.
I don't know why the shell curls but I have seen it a lot
As for the one not walking properly, do water therapy. You put him in a larger container with deeper water so he can't touch the bottom. With you watching him the entire time and maybe having to support him from the bottom, make him swim.

 

[Worriedjojo2456]

Were the two from the same clutch?
Do you know how they started them?
@Tom might be able to help about the shell curling.
As for the spots, some do some don't.
I don't know why the shell curls but I have seen it a lot
As for the one not walking properly, do water therapy. You put him in a larger container with deeper water so he can't touch the bottom. With you watching him the entire time and maybe having to support him from the bottom, make him swim.

I have no idea how they were started but from the "advice" he tried to give me... he didn't know much. He just told me they were 3 months old. Most of them looked like the sick one and the healthy looking one was the only one that looked like that. His legs have been getting stronger, he likes to march around his cage all day but i will start making him swim as well.

Any idea why the sick one is more "flat" or is that just genetics?

I appreciate you wellington! Ill adjust my light!

 

[wellington]

Some are flatter then others but I don't know why.
Tom might know. Wait and see what he says when he can get on. I sent him an alert in my other post

 

[Tom]

I have no idea how they were started but from the "advice" he tried to give me... he didn't know much. He just told me they were 3 months old. Most of them looked like the sick one and the healthy looking one was the only one that looked like that. His legs have been getting stronger, he likes to march around his cage all day but i will start making him swim as well.

Any idea why the sick one is more "flat" or is that just genetics?

I appreciate you wellington! Ill adjust my light!

I think I can see an egg tooth in the one on the right in the picture. Does it still have an egg tooth? If yes, its less than 6 weeks old.

What does each one weigh?

Can you ask the breeder what incubation media was used? What substrate were they on for "3 months" before you got them? The symptoms you describe sound like impaction.

As Wellington said, there is variation in appearance in each clutch. Some have spots, some don't. Some are flatter initially and some are rounder. There will also be darker or lighter ones. Same thing with the curling edges. I occasionally get some with highly serrated edges.

They hatch at 2-2.5 inches. By 3 months old they should be near 100 grams.

 

[Yvonne G]

I don't think a diet of only grass from your yard is a good diet for your babies. Try to find more variety of weeds for him. I feed my babies endive, escarole, raddichio, turnip greens etc. and to that I add different weeds and leaves from my yard.

 

[Worriedjojo2456]

I think I can see an egg tooth in the one on the right in the picture. Does it still have an egg tooth? If yes, its less than 6 weeks old.

What does each one weigh?

Can you ask the breeder what incubation media was used? What substrate were they on for "3 months" before you got them? The symptoms you describe sound like impaction.

As Wellington said, there is variation in appearance in each clutch. Some have spots, some don't. Some are flatter initially and some are rounder. There will also be darker or lighter ones. Same thing with the curling edges. I occasionally get some with highly serrated edges.

They hatch at 2-2.5 inches. By 3 months old they should be near 100 grams.

I will weigh them and actually measure them in a moment, ive kinda been guessing but they are both very small

 

[Len B]

If you are feeding them grass in the form that's in the second picture I suggest that you chop it into much smaller pieces. Also add more weeds to the mix too. I think I only see one clover and one other type of weed leaf in the pic. Is the Bowie you live in in Maryland or some other state? I ask because there should be a bunch of fall to winter beneficial weeds growing now in your yard if in Maryland.

 

[Worriedjojo2456]

If you are feeding them grass in the form that's in the second picture I suggest that you chop it into much smaller pieces. Also add more weeds to the mix too. I think I only see one clover and one other type of weed leaf in the pic. Is the Bowie you live in in Maryland or some other state? I ask because there should be a bunch of fall to winter beneficial weeds growing now in your yard if in Maryland.

actually i live in texas! Theres lots of clovers and dandelions, they really loved this wavy clover one but i looked it up. Creeping ivy i think? It said it was toxic.


Here is the measurements!


Sick one looks to be 2 inches


"Healthy" one is 2.5



"Sick" one weighs 40G



"Healthy" one is at 43. What to you think?

 

[Worriedjojo2456]

I think I can see an egg tooth in the one on the right in the picture. Does it still have an egg tooth? If yes, its less than 6 weeks old.

What does each one weigh?

Can you ask the breeder what incubation media was used? What substrate were they on for "3 months" before you got them? The symptoms you describe sound like impaction.

As Wellington said, there is variation in appearance in each clutch. Some have spots, some don't. Some are flatter initially and some are rounder. There will also be darker or lighter ones. Same thing with the curling edges. I occasionally get some with highly serrated edges.

They hatch at 2-2.5 inches. By 3 months old they should be near 100 grams.

Measurements posted!

 

[Worriedjojo2456]

Here is close ups of their faces, top two is healthy and bottom is sick. I have no idea if they have an egg tooth or not, please tell me

The sick one also has been breathing through his mouth since i got him but i he eats a lot and runs around a lot so i think he will power through it

 

[Len B]

actually i live in texas! Theres lots of clovers and dandelions, they really loved this wavy clover one but i looked it up. Creeping ivy i think? It said it was toxic.


Here is the measurements!


View attachment 363579Sick one looks to be 2 inches

View attachment 363580
"Healthy" one is 2.5


View attachment 363581
"Sick" one weighs 40G


View attachment 363582
"Healthy" one is at 43. What to you think?

If they are 3 months old they are small. But if you can keep them separated hydrated and and warm. Along with a very varied diet they should be fine. When I say hydrated, not just by soaking but internal hydration also with moist to wet food items does wonders for young sulcatas. You may have winter chick weeds growing now also, they are here and plentiful here in Virginia and another great food source to add to the variety.

 

[Tom]

View attachment 363583View attachment 363584View attachment 363585View attachment 363586


Here is close ups of their faces, top two is healthy and bottom is sick. I have no idea if they have an egg tooth or not, please tell me

The sick one also has been breathing through his mouth since i got him but i he eats a lot and runs around a lot so i think he will power through it

I don't see an egg tooth on either. This is good an bad news. Good because it means that yes, that are probably close to the age you were told. Bad because they should both be at least double the size they are at this age. Neither is showing any growth at all yet, and that is sad.

I agree with Yvonne and Len about the grass. Finely chopped soft grass is a great addition to the diet, but it shouldn't be the bulk of the diet at this age and size. Add more weeds, leaves, flowers, and leafy greens of the right types. We can help you ID weeds if you post pics. Your local nursery can help to if you take in samples.

Len's suggestions in post #15 spell it all out perfectly. Keep them warm, soaked, housed separately, and fed well, and hopefully they will pull through and start growing.

Here is the care info for you for convenience:

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Worriedjojo2456]

I don't see an egg tooth on either. This is good an bad news. Good because it means that yes, that are probably close to the age you were told. Bad because they should both be at least double the size they are at this age. Neither is showing any growth at all yet, and that is sad.

I agree with Yvonne and Len about the grass. Finely chopped soft grass is a great addition to the diet, but it shouldn't be the bulk of the diet at this age and size. Add more weeds, leaves, flowers, and leafy greens of the right types. We can help you ID weeds if you post pics. Your local nursery can help to if you take in samples.

Len's suggestions in post #15 spell it all out perfectly. Keep them warm, soaked, housed separately, and fed well, and hopefully they will pull through and start growing.

Here is the care info for you for convenience:

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Len mentioned moist wet food items? What are those? Do i just mist the greens i give them?

 

[Tom]

Len mentioned moist wet food items? What are those? Do i just mist the greens i give them?

Spinless opuntia cactus pads, cucumber, zucchini... Things that have a high water content. Misting the greens is good too.

 

[Worriedjojo2456]

Hello again, i have been keeping mr sick boy hot and humid. One thing you mentioned was impaction. He eats a lot and sleeps a lot and he pooped a few times the first couple days he was here but i havent seen him poop in any of his soaks. When i soak him he tends to fall asleep. And when i add water to the point where he has to swim, we will move his arms and legs for a little bit and then just go still and close his wyes and float around. Is there any way i can kinda force him to move around so he will poop? I am kinda at a loss here

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
How long do you soak him? To help with impaction it should be 30 minutes or more (up to an hour).

Since he tends to sleep in a tub, I would not force him to swim much, keep water level low (to the point where top shell and plastron meet). I'm not sure if there is a way to force him to move in a tub. However, even passive soaking helps a little. If he'll try to get out of tub - that's fine, it's the motion he needs to push stuff through his intestine.

Water temperature should be 86-90F. For prolonged soaks it's handy to use two tubs (move him between tubs, when water gets cold in one).

Whatever in his guts is, it needs time to get through (up to 1-2 weeks).