A few questions....

[RT_Novice]

Hi guys first post, my name is James and as you can tell from my username I'm fairly new at taking care of a RT. I just got him today and sleeping peacefully while I'm typing this post. I believe he was covered in his own feces and possibly some other type of feces. As soon as I opened the box, a foul stench hit my nostrils at first I thought this was normal so I put him in the pen (3'x2' tub). Twenty minutes later the foul stench filled my whole room so I took action, I gave him a bath (baby water hot) and started gently brushing his shell with a soft brush, two minutes of brushing his shell the whole tub started getting murky, all in all it took me thirty minutes to get most of the "feces" off him. As soon as I was done I put him back to his pen, as the shell dried I noticed it wasn't as vibrant as the RTs I've seen on youtube and on this forum and it also look significantly more drier. He also have dents on his shell which is filled with the remaining feces. I am using coco coir and coco husk(70/30) mix. I got him on petsolutions{com}

Cold Area: 70-73F
Basking: 100F
Everywhere Else 78-85F
Humidity: 30% basking/ 50% near hide

Here are my questions :
1. Does he have a dry shell?
2. How can I remove the remaining feces on his shell?
3. How come his shell is not as colorful as some other tortoises of his kind?
4. Does the dents on his shell means that he had some form of shell rot in the past?
5. How old ya'll think he is?
For some reason my pics wont upload on this site so I put them up on imgur. IMGUR
Sorry for the long post and thanks for the input

 

[Yvonne G]

Welcome to the Forum, James!

I think your tortoise is a wild caught Steppe tortoise, and probably is a fairly new import. After they gather up these tortoises, they have them in small areas with hundreds of tortoises all piled up on each other and they're covered with poop and pee. And they stay that way for quite a while.

You will need to give your tortoise 20 minute daily soaks and after a while all the dried on poop will start to come off. He may not like to sit in a tub of water, most of my steppe tortoises don't, but its for his own good.

I like your habitat. You've made a nice place for him to live.

The tortoise's shell looks fine to me.

There are several sub-species of steppe tortoise. Some of them are very dark, like yours, and some of them are quite a bit lighter.

The wild caught steppe tortoises undergo quite rough treatment after they've been collected. Their shells are usually all scuffed up and dented like your tortoise's shell. It just gives him more character. To me, he's beautiful.

There's no way to tell his age, but he looks mature.

 

[mainey34]

Hello and welcome...http://russiantortoise.net/ here is a care sheet, hope it helps...

 

[RT_Novice]

Welcome to the Forum, James!

I think your tortoise is a wild caught Steppe tortoise, and probably is a fairly new import. After they gather up these tortoises, they have them in small areas with hundreds of tortoises all piled up on each other and they're covered with poop and pee. And they stay that way for quite a while.

You will need to give your tortoise 20 minute daily soaks and after a while all the dried on poop will start to come off. He may not like to sit in a tub of water, most of my steppe tortoises don't, but its for his own good.

I like your habitat. You've made a nice place for him to live.

The tortoise's shell looks fine to me.

There are several sub-species of steppe tortoise. Some of them are very dark, like yours, and some of them are quite a bit lighter.

The wild caught steppe tortoises undergo quite rough treatment after they've been collected. Their shells are usually all scuffed up and dented like your tortoise's shell. It just gives him more character. To me, he's beautiful.

There's no way to tell his age, but he looks mature.

Thanks that pretty much answered all of my questions lol.

 

[RT_Novice]

Hello and welcome...http://russiantortoise.net/ here is a care sheet, hope it helps...

Thank you

 

[Laura]

be sure to offer a variety of broad leafed greens.. you can even try planting some real plants.. Pansies, Petunias, Lettuce, grass, clover..
He looks pretty good to me. give him time to settle and get used to captivity and the good life.

 

[RT_Novice]

be sure to offer a variety of broad leafed greens.. you can even try planting some real plants.. Pansies, Petunias, Lettuce, grass, clover..
He looks pretty good to me. give him time to settle and get used to captivity and the good life.

I read it takes time to get WC tortoises to acclimate to new surroundings I've also read that patience is also key with them. I want to plant edible food for him in his new home but I don't know if my UVB bulb will give if enough sustenance to survive. I have a R-Zilla Tropical Flo Bulb, 15-Watt 18-Inch T8, my mistake of buying this bulb. Does it matter if I use this bulb instead of the dessert one?

 

[thelub]

I'm new to turtle keeping and acquired a 3 toe that was a little neglected and after a few days of soaking and in a good habitat his drab looking shell and skin is starting to turn around and look better. He's in a much more humid environment than he was before and its making a difference. Just take care of him like you are and he should start to look better in a few days!

 

[RT_Novice]

I'm new to turtle keeping and acquired a 3 toe that was a little neglected and after a few days of soaking and in a good habitat his drab looking shell and skin is starting to turn around and look better. He's in a much more humid environment than he was before and its making a difference. Just take care of him like you are and he should start to look better in a few days!

Will do

 

[biochemnerd808]

Sounds like you already got your questions answered. emysemys is very knowledgeable, and I would trust her input!

I agree, the shell looks fine. I think Russian (steppe) tortoises look beautiful in all their color variations. It will likely start looking brighter as he grows (yep, it's definitely a male).

You will likely be surprised how much shell color can change with healthy food and enough water. If you click on my blog link below, and find Norbort/Stumpy's rescue story, you can compare his drab shell at the beginning to the bright yellow color after 3 months, ...you'll be amazed.

Have fun with your new critter!

 

[Kerryann]

Sounds like you already got your questions answered. emysemys is very knowledgeable, and I would trust her input!

I agree, the shell looks fine. I think Russian (steppe) tortoises look beautiful in all their color variations. It will likely start looking brighter as he grows (yep, it's definitely a male).

You will likely be surprised how much shell color can change with healthy food and enough water. If you click on my blog link below, and find Norbort/Stumpy's rescue story, you can compare his drab shell at the beginning to the bright yellow color after 3 months, ...you'll be amazed.

Have fun with your new critter!

Mine was a pasty light yellow color when I got her and she is captive bred but had horrible nutrition, no basking lamp, or uvb lamp. . It took about 5 months and her shell became a lot brighter. It may take time but the shells do get better.

 

[biochemnerd808]

@ethereal1, even a male shouldn't have poop stuck on its legs. They 'normally' will straighten their tail before pooping. If their legs or back end are smeared with poop, or often end up with dried-on poop, this may indicate that a tort has parasites, or other digestive problems. A healthy tortoise's feces is a nice rounded turd, that would need quite a bit of pressure to smear or squish. If your tortoise frequently ends up with feces stuck anywhere on their hind end, you may want to bring a sample to your vet and have it checked for parasites.

While on that note, @RT_novice, I would also recommend that you bring a sample to a good reptile vet, to have it checked for parasites. Most wild-caught tortoises have some amount of parasites, which from the stress of being transported, often multiply. Worms are easy to treat with fenbendazole (with your vet's proper dosage!), but can be very harmful to your animal if left untreated.

Oh, and the best way to tell the difference between a male tail and a female tail is that females have a short fat tail, and the vent is close to the body, and is shaped like a pucker or asterisk (*). A male has a longer tail, and the vent is closer to the tip, and is shaped like a slit, parallel to the tail. Males have a larger 'claw' at the tip, although my 'big' female also has a claw like that. Here's a good website, with pics: http://www.russiantortoise.net/male_female.htm

The easiest way (Ive noticed) to tell the sex of your tort, is to just look at the tops of their legs in the back, if they have poop in those spots its from tucking their tails to the side, and females Ive noticed dont seem to have that because they dont tuck their tails in, hahaha!

Anyway all perfect advice, thought Id add another vote though Im not the most experienced here, just realllllly into tortoises

Anyway his scutes are all nice and symmetrical, mine when I got him had one or two in the center a little skewed, but as hes growing hes getting them straightened out, I would say yours, judging by the size with the quarter, is maybe mature but hes still pretty young yet and hes got some more growing to do, and as he does that his shell will get very interesting

Love the habitat you made, its perfect!

 

[tickle]

Allot of people don't like that vitashell product but I do and this tortoise is a perfect tortoise to use it on.get a very fine bristle tooth brush soak tortoise in bath temp water.have a seperat cup with hot water and a capfull of white vinager or 1/2 cap full of rubbing alchohol.remove tortoise and scrub shell lightly all over dipping and rincing in the cup of water with vin/alc.once shell looks clean prince off in warm water.then put tortoise back in Jew warm water and prince off toothbrush.then get another cup of warm water and adding a teaspoon of baking soda and three caps of peroxcide.use tooth brush and scrub Levy's tail but and head.do not scruple loose inner skin use quetips and lightly clean the this skin inbetween and on neck.after clean and dissenfected put back in new warm water bath.now take out of bath and dry put vita shell in microwave for 3 seconds .hold tortoisr and coat his shell skin neck legs all over a good amount and rub in for a minute or two.then wipe of completely u will need a quetip to get inbetween scutes.then I add zoo med eye drops.I have a beet up wc Russian and this worker great restored him nicky

 

[biochemnerd808]

Not to be contrary, but this tortoise would be just about the WORST candidate to use Vitashell on! The feces it was covered in harbor bacteria, and the waxes and oils in Vitashell will trap bacteria in the shell, even after a thorough cleaning as described (the cleaning method does sound good!). This could cause all kinds of bad things to happen.

I don't like putting anything but water on a tortoise's shell (although, a one-time thorough cleaning as 'tickle' describes would be good). Vitashell, oil etc might make a shell look pretty, but it does more harm than good. Always ask yourself: "Would he/she use this in the wild?" - I have yet to encounter a conditioning tortoise spa in the wild...

Allot of people don't like that vitashell product but I do and this tortoise is a perfect tortoise to use it on.get a very fine bristle tooth brush soak tortoise in bath temp water.have a seperat cup with hot water and a capfull of white vinager or 1/2 cap full of rubbing alchohol.remove tortoise and scrub shell lightly all over dipping and rincing in the cup of water with vin/alc.once shell looks clean prince off in warm water.then put tortoise back in Jew warm water and prince off toothbrush.then get another cup of warm water and adding a teaspoon of baking soda and three caps of peroxcide.use tooth brush and scrub Levy's tail but and head.do not scruple loose inner skin use quetips and lightly clean the this skin inbetween and on neck.after clean and dissenfected put back in new warm water bath.now take out of bath and dry put vita shell in microwave for 3 seconds .hold tortoisr and coat his shell skin neck legs all over a good amount and rub in for a minute or two.then wipe of completely u will need a quetip to get inbetween scutes.then I add zoo med eye drops.I have a beet up wc Russian and this worker great restored him nicky

 

[tickle]

There is noproof that vitashell harm anything if you use the brush you can get all the feces off.let me ask u a question if you have dried cracked skin or nail what do you put on it.hand lotion. Please show me scientific proof that vitashell is harmfully don't go spitting that out there is no proof just heresay from oldtimers.I have a Russian that's shell was all cracked and dried out from brine allmost killed in hurricane sandy and guess what a very well known Rep vet told me to use it and it helped restore most of the damage.allot of people don't like vitashell cause they say they don't need it in the wild or doesn't do anything but make the shell look shiny. Well my dog doesn't get shampood in the wild and doesn't need it eather but it makes him look good and smell good.also it helps retain moisture in shell and skin wich can help a dehydrated one.there is just such a hatred for a product from just here say.I like my torts to look good and I use it works well and I love it.if you have any proof of it Bering harmfully I would love to read it if not to bad

 

[biochemnerd808]

@Tickle, I'm not trying to go on a witch-hunt, and I know that there are very mixed opinions. I don't want you to feel attacked. It sounds like you have years of experience. Obviously, your turtles and tortoises are your pets, and really nobody has any right to tell you what to do. I also think that without actual scientific evidence, nobody should tell you that what you are doing is wrong - since a lot is based on opinion. I, for myself, choose only to put water on my tortoises, and they still look nice.

I agree with you that there needs to be more scientific research to show whether it really is harmful. I have to say, the motivation of wanting a tortoise to 'look nice' would not be what would drive me to use the product, since being healthy is my motivation in what I do or don't do for my tortoises.

My original background is Biochemistry, so I'm going to be geeky for a moment. Moving away from just anecdotal evidence and hear-say, let's look purely at the ingredients:
"Purified softened water, sunflower oil, emulsifying wax NF, cetyl alcohol, coconut oil, palm oil, soybean oil, glycerine, lanolin, cotton seed oil, stearamidopropyl dimethylamin lactate, protein conditioners, diazolidinyl urea, rosemary oil, methylparaben, propylparaben, FD&C yellow 6" (copied from the Petco website)

Purified water is obviously fine. Cetyl alcohol disinfects, but also dries out (and can prevent proper tissue healing, as we now know). As for the other ingredients, someone else already wrote a little review of them:
"First off, I would NEVER use this product [vitashell] on my animals. Who cares if your torts shell is shiny!! Here's a few potentially harmful substances in this product! Soy oil (known to cause pancreatic cancer in rats), cottonseed oil (used as mild insecticide), rosemary oil (has substances known to cause stomach ulcers in rats) two kinds of parabens used as preservatives which are linked to breast cancer! Diazolidinyl Urea (was recently re-classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer to its highest toxic class, IARC 1 (known human carcinogen), and many others!!
It is oil based which means it leaves a lot of residue behind (ie the shine) and can cause infection if bacteria is caught in the pores. Why would you put all of those chemicals on your animal? Yes, there are vitamins in it-- but there are better ways for your torts to get the vitamins the need (healthy food)! These companies are out to get money, and don't put these animals first! Pet shops sell all sorts of things that aren't good for our pets...an example is cedar shavings! They are toxic to most animals! SAD!!!" -quoted from http://www.zootoo.com/pet-product/reptile-conditioners/vitashell1/review/notgoodfortorts

Now, I realize that this breakdown of the ingredients might not be entirely accurate, since we're talking about reptiles, rather than mammals (I'm not really worried about my tortoises getting breast cancer, haha).

However, knowing the (possible) effects of the ingredients makes me not want to use Vitashell on my tortoises. I think IF you want to use a product to condition shell and skin, a single-ingredient oil such as vitamin-E-oil or coconut oil would be a better choice. I use coconut oil on my own skin, and like it. I haven't used it on my tortoises.

Sounds like your RT had extra-dry skin and shell from being exposed to brine (poor tort, having to go through a hurricane! Glad he's ok!), and I do agree with you that this probably required some extra treatment (and VitaShell was probably a good option). I don't fault you for that choice at all.

For long-term care, however, I think providing proper humidity and food are probably a more important choice.

There is noproof that vitashell harm anything if you use the brush you can get all the feces off.let me ask u a question if you have dried cracked skin or nail what do you put on it.hand lotion. Please show me scientific proof that vitashell is harmfully don't go spitting that out there is no proof just heresay from oldtimers.I have a Russian that's shell was all cracked and dried out from brine allmost killed in hurricane sandy and guess what a very well known Rep vet told me to use it and it helped restore most of the damage.allot of people don't like vitashell cause they say they don't need it in the wild or doesn't do anything but make the shell look shiny. Well my dog doesn't get shampood in the wild and doesn't need it eather but it makes him look good and smell good.also it helps retain moisture in shell and skin wich can help a dehydrated one.there is just such a hatred for a product from just here say.I like my torts to look good and I use it works well and I love it.if you have any proof of it Bering harmfully I would love to read it if not to bad