2010 South African Leopard Thread.

[Yvonne G]

I didn't call attention to it because I didn't want anyone to tell me I allowed them to breed too young/small. I told Tom because I needed info on diapause. I only hope I didn't stunt her growth by allowing egg laying too early in her life. We'll see.

 

[diamondbp]

I didn't call attention to it because I didn't want anyone to tell me I allowed them to breed too young/small. I told Tom because I needed info on diapause. I only hope I didn't stunt her growth by allowing egg laying too early in her life. We'll see.

Well I doubt the newly matured females in the wild get a free pass from mature males lol. I'm sure she will be just fine. May I ask what approximate shell length she was when she laid? You can PM me if you rather.
My young female is exploding with growth and seems like she could reach 13-14 inches by the end of 2016 at her current rate

 

[Yvonne G]

12" SCL

 

[Tom]

Well I doubt the newly matured females in the wild get a free pass from mature males lol. I'm sure she will be just fine. May I ask what approximate shell length she was when she laid? You can PM me if you rather.
My young female is exploding with growth and seems like she could reach 13-14 inches by the end of 2016 at her current rate

Spread out in the wild, the females would not be subject to the harassment they would receive in a relatively small captive environment. I don't know how Yvonne's male is, but all three of mine are very aggressive, territorial and bold. They ram ME whenever I intrude into their territory.

I've seen similar growth pattern in all of mine. The males grow super fast when they are babies, and then slow down as they age. The females seem to hit their stride at about 3-4 years old and begin sprouting like crazy.

These pics are all fantastic. I don't know how I missed the return of @ticothetort2 but he looks great, and what a great enclosure that is. You've all reminded me that I need to get a tape measure and a camera and post some new pics of mine!

Thanks to all for the updates and pics. @Yvonne G : Baby pics, or it didn't happen!!! I don't know if you all remember, but these are the most gorgeous little babies ever with their contrasting black and yellow, their little freckles and their little double dot scutes...

 

[MichaelS]

Merry Christmas!

I have three clutches of her eggs in the incubator.

Wow that is a cool surprise

PLEASE... PLEASE... PLEASE... when you get some time can you post your incubation process/plan: temps, RH, in and out of diapause. How may diapause periods will you do, length of each diapause period etc etc.

Mine are a few years away but when the time comes I will need to incubate the eggs as well due to climate here in Texas.

 

[Yvonne G]

I kept the eggs cool (about 60F) for a month, then a week gradual warm up, then into the incubator at 89F until they hatch. I have them on moist vermiculite and there is a cup of water in the incubator.

 

[diamondbp]

Spread out in the wild, the females would not be subject to the harassment they would receive in a relatively small captive environment. I don't know how Yvonne's male is, but all three of mine are very aggressive, territorial and bold. They ram ME whenever I intrude into their territory.

I've seen similar growth pattern in all of mine. The males grow super fast when they are babies, and then slow down as they age. The females seem to hit their stride at about 3-4 years old and begin sprouting like crazy.

These pics are all fantastic. I don't know how I missed the return of @ticothetort2 but he looks great, and what a great enclosure that is. You've all reminded me that I need to get a tape measure and a camera and post some new pics of mine!

Thanks to all for the updates and pics. @Yvonne G : Baby pics, or it didn't happen!!! I don't know if you all remember, but these are the most gorgeous little babies ever with their contrasting black and yellow, their little freckles and their little double dot scutes...

I'm going to hold you to the updated pics and measurements @Tom . I very much look forward to any updated information that comes on this post.
@Yvonne G I'm also incubating 3 "secret" nest lol. I didn't post anything about it on TFO because I've been so busy and I honestly wasn't sure if they would be fertile. Back in August I acquired a 14.5" female babocki/pardalis (that looks mostly babcocki) that my male pardalis mates with everyday. Well to my surprise she has laid 3 clutches over the last 3 months. A clutch of 8 on October 14th, a clutch of 10 on November 14th, and a 3rd clutch of 12eggs on December 13th!

She was previously with Adam from TortsRus and he said she laid a clutch of infertile eggs with him because when he got her she hadn't been around a male in years. Well 7 of the first 8 eggs are no doubt fertile, 5 of the 10 from second clutch look fertile thus far, and of course the new clutch of 12 was just laid a few days ago. So I have no idea whether they are fertilized from my pardalis male, or from the babcocki males that she was around when was with Adam. And it's always possible the first clutch may prove to be from the babcocki males while the following two clutches may be fertilized from my male. Either way I'm very very curious to see what these babies look like. I'm thinking they will hatch out between Feb-April.

I'm not aiming to produce mixed babies long term but I couldn't pass her up when she became available. Once we move to my new house in Feb I will be aiming to acquire a 15" or larger pardalis pardalis female to put him with. Although I am really excited to be incubating my first ever leopard eggs the goal is to produce many beautiful pure pardalis pardalis babies. My large female has a very pardalis like attitude. She is a total tank, so I don't doubt that she may indeed have some pardalis blood in her. Her skin is quite speckled but her shell screams babcocki.

Anyways I'm glad to see some updates and I hope some others chime in. TFO's leopard section has been to quite lately! lol

 

[MichaelS]

I kept the eggs cool (about 60F) for a month, then a week gradual warm up, then into the incubator at 89F until they hatch. I have them on moist vermiculite and there is a cup of water in the incubator.

Well that seems pretty straight forward. I've heard that incubating SAs eggs was a tricky endeavor. Keeps us posted on the progress.

 

[Tom]

Here is my long overdue update. The weather has been cold and rainy here, so its too cold to soak them and clean them up. Here they are in all their dirty glory:

This is the only female that I raised from the original batch. I call her "Hamburger" do to her round shape.


A friend/mentor raised these next two females and then gave them back to me after two or three years. This one had a crooked scute from day one. Its been interesting watching her develop and grow. I'll be very curious to see what her babies look like. I call her "Crooked Scute".


This is the largest girl from the 2010 bunch. Check out her deep "V". I call her "V Neck" or just "V" for short.


This is a different female that was given to me by a friend. NOT one of the 2010 bunch, but I love her just the same. Her name is Dot.


This is my split scuted male. He was the fastest growing of the whole bunch for the first couple of years, but then he slowed wayyyy down. His name is "Big Daddy".


This is Mr. Green. I was pulling old dried up weeds in his pen today and he snuck up and rammed my heel. OUCH!!! This is what reminded me to do this update today. He has been full of P&V all winter. He's always out and active. The cold weather has not slowed him or his appetite down one bit.


And finally, Mr. Blue. He's like me in that he doesn't like winter. He couldn't be bothered to get up and get out of his box today.



@Neal
@Yvonne G
@diamondbp
Check it out. Let me know what you think.

 

[TerrapinStation]

Awesome, what a cool group. So varied, yet so similar.

 

[MichaelS]

Tom - that's a great looking group . It's interesting that the males are the same size as the females if not a little bit bigger at this age. I'm curious to know if the males and females are closer in size as adults for SAs than the non SA leopards.

 

[Tom]

Tom - that's a great looking group . It's interesting that the males are the same size as the females if not a little bit bigger at this age. I'm curious to know if the males and females are closer in size as adults for SAs than the non SA leopards.

The biggest male SA leopards I have seen were bigger than the biggest female SA Leopards I have seen.

 

[diamondbp]

Tom - that's a great looking group . It's interesting that the males are the same size as the females if not a little bit bigger at this age. I'm curious to know if the males and females are closer in size as adults for SAs than the non SA leopards.

From the pictures I have seen of wild individuals from extreme south Africa, the males can outgrow the females
https://www.flickr.com/photos/albra...4hL-cYK4aU-cYLyob-cYK3D9-cYK3KQ-cYK3Ys-cYKXzU

 

[diamondbp]

Tom I want to thankyou for the update. It's going to be an exciting day to see the cycle of life take place with your group. You have done so much for this species and you deserve to be rewarded with many many beautiful babies lol.
What would you say was the most surprising aspect of raising up your SA group? Anything take you for a loop? I know you are still just as in love with this group as you were on day one. I'm the same way. It doesn't get old for me. I will be doing an update on my group later today so keep an eye out for that. Thanks again

 

[Tom]

What would you say was the most surprising aspect of raising up your SA group? Anything take you for a loop? I know you are still just as in love with this group as you were on day one.

Several things:
1. Their appearance. The hatchlings are gorgeous beyond belief.
2. Their personalities. I've raised lots of leopards, but these are my first South African leopards. I had to separate the males at 1.5-2 years old for aggression and territoriality. I have 3-4 year old russians and sulcatas living together peacefully. The females are simply fearless, but not aggressive. The males literally chase after me trying to bite and ram me when I'm in their enclosures. They calm down after a bit and I'm sure if I had just one and treated him more like a pet, he would be less hostile, but the boldness and fearlessness is what stands out so much to me.
3. Their diet. They eat grass and hay like a sulcata. This makes them very easy to feed when they are 30-75 pound adults. Really, they eat just about anything. I love it when tortoises are not picky.
4. Their activity level. On warm days they are out exploring and "doing something" all day long. They are a very interesting tortoise to sit and observe.

 

[diamondbp]

@Tom I forgot to ask whether or not you have let the males loose on the females yet?

 

[Tom]

@Tom I forgot to ask whether or not you have let the males loose on the females yet?

I'm going to let a male and that big adult female go to town soon, but I'm going to wait on the 2010 females until this time next year. The big girl is 18 years old, so she's ready to go. I think the 2010 girls could reproduce now, but I'd rather let them get some size first. I intend to feed them up really well and soak them a lot this spring and summer. Hoping to put another couple of inches on them.

 

[Neal]

They look good.

I do hope to have another try with the SA leopards in the future.

 

[Tom]

They look good.

I do hope to have another try with the SA leopards in the future.

Well between Yvonne, Diamond and me, you will not have to wait long!

 

[diamondbp]

Well between Yvonne, Diamond and me, you will not have to wait long!

My fingers are crossed to find a pure pp female early next year and hopefully produce some eggs by the fall. But odds are that yvonne will be the first successful TFO member to hatch them out. My young female p.p. is currently 10inches but I would like her to get 14-15 before letting the males mate with her. She is still small enough now that she doesnt get any attention. My 13" male pp is in love with my pardalis/babcocki female. So if I don't acquire a pure adult female pp next year it may be 2-3 years before I produce my own babies from my current group. I'm going to be really excited to see @Yvonne G and @Tom produce babies.

@Yvonne G have you candled your eggs yet? Did they chalk?