Why do torts slow down indoors.

[Anyfoot]

All of my torts have slowed down on eating. At this time of year this is normal and I'm not worried at all.
But why does this happen?
As far as they are concerned temperatures have not changed, I can understand daylight time is shorter.
I was thinking it's in their programme, their body clock, but with redfoots they don't experience winters like we have in the wild, so that's that theory out the window.
Then I'm thinking is it because I'm not letting them outside any more, but that's not the case with my 2 groups of hingeback juveniles, because these guys have not been out for about 3 months and the eating has only slowed down in the last couple of weeks.
Can anyone explain to me why this happens please.
@tortadise, I remember you writing something about this in detail a while back. I Can't find it.

 

[Yvonne G]

One thing I've decided is the change in UVB. The UVB from the sun is much better than the UVB from a light. I've noticed the same thing as you, and that's what I've come up with.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Although species like redfoots don't experience winters as such, they still have different seasons of a sort.
I believe tortoises are extremely sensitive to changes in air pressure and weather in general , even when indoors.
Greek torts here, including my Tidgy, are aware of a storm approaching before people are.

 

[Tom]

They can feel the cooler days and sense the shorter day light cycles, even though we have artificial lights over them.

My house goes from 80-84 all summer to 69 all winter. Also, think about how bright your house is during the day with no lights on, and think about how dim everything looks at night in comparison even when the room light is on. Natural sunlight is SOOOOOOOO much stronger and brighter, as well as a different spectrum, than our indoor heat lamps and UV tubes. Just because the enclosure is lit, doesn't mean they can't tell that we are only getting 10-11 hours of sun vs. 13-14 in summer. They still can see when the real sun rises and set when they are indoors, just like we can.

Also, their biological clocks know that 6 months from the middle of summer, they are in the middle of winter, regardless of temps and lighting.

 

[Anyfoot]

Yep
It makes sense that when it's dull and cloudy outside during the day(winter) they know this because it's darker in our house.
So with the biological clock your saying they sense 6months either side of the summer regardless of where they live, For example new Zealand has a similar climate to us but 6 months out of sync. Their summer is now.
That makes sense too, they all have a biological clock, and that is synced to where ever they live in the world.

 

[Tom]

So with the biological clock your saying they sense 6months either side of the summer regardless of where they live, For example new Zealand has a similar climate to us but 6 months out of sink. Their summer is now.
That makes sense too, they all have a biological clock, and that is sinked to where ever they live in the world.

Yes. This has been a problem for people trying to get various reptiles that are imported from the southern hemisphere to breed here in North America. For example: Bert Langerwurf told me a story about how he imported 200 Tupinabis merianae from Southern Argentina. He spent years manipulating the heat and light cycles and he only got about 40% of them to ever breed. Those 40% are the foundation for the majority of black and white tegus in the hobby here today.

 

[Anyfoot]

Yes. This has been a problem for people trying to get various reptiles that are imported from the southern hemisphere to breed here in North America. For example: Bert Langerwurf told me a story about how he imported 200 Tupinabis merianae from Southern Argentina. He spent years manipulating the heat and light cycles and he only got about 40% of them to ever breed. Those 40% are the foundation for the majority of black and white tegus in the hobby here today.

I'd never thought of this before. Is this why some WC animals don't survive, years ago they used to import homeana hingebacks into uk in the 1000's. Most perished, there's not many over here now. Not only did they have to endure incorrect care they had to adjust the biological clock.
What about the F1s that come from a WC group. I assume the body clock starts from a fresh.

 

[tortadise]

All of my torts have slowed down on eating. At this time of year this is normal and I'm not worried at all.
But why does this happen?
As far as they are concerned temperatures have not changed, I can understand daylight time is shorter.
I was thinking it's in their programme, their body clock, but with redfoots they don't experience winters like we have in the wild, so that's that theory out the window.
Then I'm thinking is it because I'm not letting them outside any more, but that's not the case with my 2 groups of hingeback juveniles, because these guys have not been out for about 3 months and the eating has only slowed down in the last couple of weeks.
Can anyone explain to me why this happens please.
@tortadise, I remember you writing something about this in detail a while back. I Can't find it.

I'm not sure where that response is either. I do recall it having something to do with the earth shifting. Which is does this time of year. For instance Alaska now has had the sun set and will not rise until January. This axis shift from winter to summer solstice offsets weather patterns everywhere. Regions of equatorial and cancer/Capricorn lines only sway shifts in dry and wet seasons. Which naturally changes barameteic pressures, dew points(which hinges off pressures and night time low temperatures which hinges off specific and absolute humidity thusly changing relative humidity etc) blah. Blah. Blah. Tom hit a very good point. They can sense this sort of change even if artificial UVB is instilled. Things we can't see like pressure systems, shifting in atmospheric currents, UV solar declines or inclines(depending where you are) can all go into some serious scientific detail. Which really can be discussed and all of it may play a relevant portion or some
May not. Whichever species it may be it will need to adapt to a similar threshold of its natural habitat in which procreation seems relevant and most successful for its own species. They just know somehow.

 

[Tom]

What about the F1s that come from a WC group. I assume the body clock starts from a fresh.

100% of the offspring from the original group bred once they hit maturity.

 

[Tom]

I'm not sure where that response is either. I do recall it having something to do with the earth shifting. Which is does this time of year. For instance Alaska now has had the sun set and will not rise until January. This axis shift from winter to summer solstice offsets weather patterns everywhere. Regions of equatorial and cancer/Capricorn lines only sway shifts in dry and wet seasons. Which naturally changes barameteic pressures, dew points(which hinges off pressures and night time low temperatures which hinges off specific and absolute humidity thusly changing relative humidity etc) blah. Blah. Blah. Tom hit a very good point. They can sense this sort of change even if artificial UVB is instilled. Things we can't see like pressure systems, shifting in atmospheric currents, UV solar declines or inclines(depending where you are) can all go into some serious scientific detail. Which really can be discussed and all of it may play a relevant portion or some
May not. Whichever species it may be it will need to adapt to a similar threshold of its natural habitat in which procreation seems relevant and most successful for its own species. They just know somehow.

Agreed Kelly. There are many factors in play. Some we understand a lot, some we understand very little. I'm certain there or other factors that we don't even have a clue about.

 

[Tom]

I can't speak for anyone else, but my own moods and biological processes shift significantly from winter to summer as well. Me and my family on my father's side suffer from terrible SAD. This is one reason I tolerate all the non-sense of living in "Sunny Southern CA". Further, my area of SoCal, is even more sunny that the rest of SoCal. There is a mountain range that usually holds back the May Gray and June Gloom that is so typical of the city I grew up in near the beach. I live just behind that mountain range. When most of the L.A. basin is socked in under cloud cover, it is sunny and warm at my house. Makes me smile just thinking about it. I'm certain that I've I lived in Seattle I would long ago have joined the ranks of people that make Seattle the suicide capitol of the world year after year.

I find it very implausible that the factors that affect me so profoundly wouldn't also affect tortoises that are living outside my house. Number of sunny days, length of day, intensity of light and UV, temperatures, and barometric pressure are all obvious factors to consider, but Kelly mentioned some others that also deserve consideration.

 

[jojay327]

How about the opposite, my tortoise eats non stop all winter long. If he does not get greens then he has a mouth full of hay. In the six years I've had him he has never slowed down.

 

[Tom]

How about the opposite, my tortoise eats non stop all winter long. If he does not get greens then he has a mouth full of hay. In the six years I've had him he has never slowed down.

Some do this and others don't.

I find it an interesting discussion to determine why, or at least try to determine why.

Care to share what equipment you use for heating and lighting? What are your four temps? Pics of the enclosure?

 

[Anyfoot]

I can't speak for anyone else, but my own moods and biological processes shift significantly from winter to summer as well. Me and my family on my father's side suffer from terrible SAD. This is one reason I tolerate all the non-sense of living in "Sunny Southern CA". Further, my area of SoCal, is even more sunny that the rest of SoCal. There is a mountain range that usually holds back the May Gray and June Gloom that is so typical of the city I grew up in near the beach. I live just behind that mountain range. When most of the L.A. basin is socked in under cloud cover, it is sunny and warm at my house. Makes me smile just thinking about it. I'm certain that I've I lived in Seattle I would long ago have joined the ranks of people that make Seattle the suicide capitol of the world year after year.

I find it very implausible that the factors that affect me so profoundly wouldn't also affect tortoises that are living outside my house. Number of sunny days, length of day, intensity of light and UV, temperatures, and barometric pressure are all obvious factors to consider, but Kelly mentioned some others that also deserve consideration.

Bang on with that analysis Tom. I always feel a bit down in winter, nothing to worry about but I naturally feel not as happy when it's dark,damp and cold for a few months, something we've spoke about at work amongst the lads before, virtually all feel the seem. Our moods swing with the weather. The opposite to that is, when we go on holiday in the Mediterranean areas, after 2 weeks I've had enough. 30°c + just gets too much and the stroppy moods kick in. We Brits are never happy. Lol.

 

[wellington]

Although species like redfoots don't experience winters as such, they still have different seasons of a sort.
I believe tortoises are extremely sensitive to changes in air pressure and weather in general , even when indoors.
Greek torts here, including my Tidgy, are aware of a storm approaching before people are.

This is what I think. Even aquarium fish, kept in an indoor aquarium, will be effected by the time of year, and weather changes, moon placement, etc. Animals no when it's going to rain way before any weather person.

 

[wellington]

Bang on with that analysis Tom. I always feel a bit down in winter, nothing to worry about but I naturally feel not as happy when it's dark,damp and cold for a few months, something we've spoke about at work amongst the lads before, virtually all feel the seem. Our moods swing with the weather. The opposite to that is, when we go on holiday in the Mediterranean areas, after 2 weeks I've had enough. 30°c + just gets too much and the stroppy moods kick in. We Brits are never happy. Lol.

Totally agree with this and it happens to us USA Northerners.

 

[Big Charlie]

Totally agree with this and it happens to us USA Northerners.

I'm in California and I still hate winter.

I've noticed that Charlie seems to be able to predict weather sometimes. During warmer weather, he usually doesn't use his heated night box, but some nights he'll head for his night box anyway. Those nights end up colder, wetter or windier.

 

[Anyfoot]

Although species like redfoots don't experience winters as such, they still have different seasons of a sort.
I believe tortoises are extremely sensitive to changes in air pressure and weather in general , even when indoors.
Greek torts here, including my Tidgy, are aware of a storm approaching before people are.

So when my grandad used to take me fishing and all the cows were laying down in the fields, he'd say "it's going to rain because the cows are laying down". This was true and not just my grandad winding me up?

 

[Millerlite]

I would say the day and night cycle plays a roll. Even with fake lights it's hard to mimic it. Also i feel its almost ingrain into them. They just know or feel its that time. Atmosphere pressure too I bet they can feel. I'm winter there are a lot more low pressure systems rolling through bringing winter rain and cool weather. They probably can feel the difference when it's winter time . my gusses.

Kyle

 

[wellington]

I would say the day and night cycle plays a roll. Even with fake lights it's hard to mimic it. Also i feel its almost ingrain into them. They just know or feel its that time. Atmosphere pressure too I bet they can feel. I'm winter there are a lot more low pressure systems rolling through bringing winter rain and cool weather. They probably can feel the difference when it's winter time . my gusses.

Kyle

Yes, all kinds of stuff like pressure placement of moon, sun, etc. if aquarium fish inside a building knows it, animals of all kind probably have some sense to it too. Except us humans, unless you have arthritis, then I guess they can tell when it's going to rain.