Tortoise Supply.Com

[moswen]

I personally haven't found a single tortoise rescue online that is "overloaded" with sullys, and I've googled "sulcata tortoise rescue" several times. The most I've found is two sullies in a colorado rescue, and they only had 2 and several RES. And I've said all that before. I also don't think there was a whole lot wrong with the ad, they could have said "can live to be 100 if kept in proper conditions," but at least they did tell how large they get and leave you with the last line stating "large space needed" or whatever. They also didn't claim "easy to care for, quiet, a great pet for your children," which I've seen before. I personally am fine with the ad, and sulcata breeding, but that's just my opinion!

 

[Josh]

My suggestion is that the mods delete this thread. Online defamation is a grey area of the law. I wouldn't want to jeopardize tortoiseforum.org and make its owner personally liable with this type of discussion when its linked to a specific individual and their business. Just a thought.

Still waiting for my first C&D letter

 

[TylerStewart]

My suggestion is that the mods delete this thread. Online defamation is a grey area of the law. I wouldn't want to jeopardize tortoiseforum.org and make its owner personally liable with this type of discussion when its linked to a specific individual and their business. Just a thought.

Thanks for the support (and common sense) to almost everyone involved in this thread. While I appreciate the concerns some people have about defamation (had a few e-mails also), I realize that there's always going to be idiots out there on the internet, and eventually, some of them are going to find me. I'm confident that 95% of the people that read this have common sense, and if so, this thread won't be damaging to me in any way.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I think people should do some research before they buy a tort, just a thought.

I think people should do some research before they buy any sort of pet.

 

[gummybearpoop]

The problem is irresponsible people. Sulcatas or sulcata breeders are not the problem. Sure breeders can screen people as much as they can.

Look at all the dogs and cats running the streets. People buy dogs and cats....not all end up on the street....but a lot of them do! I have never seen a sulcata running the street loose and I live in AZ where thousands are produced yearly. Everyday I see loose cats and dogs, and cats and dogs that have been hit by cars. Also, lots of children are neglected because of irresponsible parents.

I rarely see classifieds where people are giving away sulcatas because they don't want them. Don't believe the hype. Maybe one day it will happen.

Do not blame Tyler/tortoisesupply for selling sulcatas like they are villains.

There will always be irresponsible people and responsible people who try to pick up the slack.

There are already at least a few threads of people bashing sulcata breeders. These kind of threads is what keeps me away from tortoiseforum. Perhaps, people would get more done about issues they care about if they used their time to educate the public rather than online-bashing someone they don't know.

 

[janiedough]

I have a few issues with this reply

The tortoises being bred by Tortoise Supply are not "wild" animals, they are bred for the pet industry. Doing this decreases the demand on actual wild tortoises from being taken out of the wild. To say "MOST owners" either kill their tortoises or the tortoises outgrow them is unfounded to say the least. But, if that happens it's the buyers responsibility not the sellers so I think your frustration is misguided.

Uhm where would you find a sulcata in the wild if it weren't for the pet industry???

And it is not unfounded. Not when you are talking about sulcatas. Are you educated about sulcatas?

Selling wild lions is dangerous, and I believe illegal in most states because it is dangerous for people. This is dangerous for the animals. Sulcatas are not well cared for, and should not be pets.


So does this mean that you yourself are not prepared for the responsibility of housing an adult sulcata? Why did you "rescue" it in the first place? Isn't that hypocritical?

Let's see I took Percy from a guy who kept him in a shoe box of dirt and brought him home where he roams and grazes all day...I'd say I did the right thing.

What I was saying is that even the most responsible and caring person is not going to be able to care for an adult sulcata. When Percy gets to be 100+ lbs, I am not sure if I will be able to house him in my backyard. If you know anything about sulcatas, you know this.

Again you say "most people" which is completley unfounded. There are more sulcata owners out there than you think and I would be willing to bet that the majority do take good care of them...of course that's just my opinion but I happen to know quite a few sulcata owners and can speak from experience.

You know few sulcatas, yet hundreds are probably sold everyday all over the US...hm. do the math. And yes it is your opinion. If you don't know the facts don't argue. Again - what do you know of sulcatas?

What obligation does any business have to screen people? I'm an accountant, if I screened all of my clients I would end up with none. In the business world it makes no sense. And it isn't just money, I'm sure Tyler will tell you it's a hobby for himself and for the people he sells to, and as I stated above it decreases the demand for wild caught specimens.

No but when you do compilations or returns, do you not have some responsibility for the integrity of the information you use to create these reports? And I'm glad his hobby is to make baby animals that will probably die.

I completely dissagree with you that sulcatas should not be pets. I have seen many sulcatas and I'm sure any owner here will tell you they are full of as much personality as any cat or dog. They are exotic and interesting and if properly cared for can bring as much joy into someones life as any other type of pet.

That's not why I have issues with sulcatas as pets. You're missing the boat.

I have been to a rescue here in AZ that has over 200 sulcatas. The rescue itself is breeding them and selling them, as well as selling the adults they get for free for a large profit. Do you see that as a problem? Tyler and others on this forum have offered to take in sulcatas from people who elsewise would give them to one of these rescues. There ARE homes for sulcatas, it seems the problem is that people don't do their homework and instead drop them off at a rescue because they think a rescue is a good place.


Do they not screen the new placements? What's the name of this rescue? Most rescues destroy the eggs because that is the humane thing to do. And you're right people don't do their homework. So people who sell them should put big red flags all over these torts and not just a high dollar sign.

I've never met Tyler in person, but have talked with him a few times. From what I can tell he is a good guy, and I can say that based on my experience with him. If you don't think what he is doing is right or he's a "bad guy" than don't buy from him or try to figure out why he does it BEFORE you come on here and tell everyone that what he is doing is terrible.

Well by all means - side with him because you like him and not because you actually know anything about sulcatas

---

What I don't understand is why you are so opposed to SULCATAS as pets. There are lots of other large outdoor pets out there. There are lots of other large tortoise species out there. We just recently had a thread discussing which species grow the largest and there have been Leopards and Yellowfoot tortoises over a hundred pound too. Several other species get over 50 pounds. Is it the size? Are you opposed to goats as pets? They come from Africa too and are all now captive bred and can get over a hundred pounds. I can tell you from experience , its much easier to handle a 100 lb, tort than a 100 lb. goat. What about Vietnamese Pot Bellied Pigs? Sheep?

Sulcatas get to be 200+lbs and live to be 100 years old. Most people just are not equipped to raise them. In most areas you can't own farm animals within city limits - there should be similar limitations on sulcatas. Also - goats are eaten and used for their milk - it's not a pet - not for long. Sulcatas are the second largest. Right under Galapagos.


My point was; most tortoise owners know how to take care of them properly and don't need a vet very often. Sure they can have health problems,even if you do everything right, but most of them are pretty hardy and healthy.

Actually I took Percy to the vet to make sure he didn't have worms, and to make sure his body was full of the vitamins he needed, etc. Which was the responsible thing to do. I think most pet owners should do the same depending on the pet. Sulcatas live so long. And yes, there are great people out there who take wonderful care of their sulcatas. But go in the sulcata thread and read how many times some one comes in there and says "wasn't told it was going to get this big." Most people assume these tortoises are not sold this easily - to whoever has a buck or two. They don't know what they are getting into.

Even the people who take wonderful care of their sulcatas have troubles with them when they get too big - that is the main issue. If a cat lived 100 years, it wouldn't be a problem because it XXXX in a cat box and can live in a small apartment.

AND not a one of them is a wild caught animal snatched from the wild in Africa.

Yes thank you for saying that because really - who is snatching these guys from the wild? And this is my point - lots of them sold, so very little survive. Those that do are hard to place in good homes because they get big, and live so long. That's the issue - the main difference between sulcatas and all other breeds of torts except galapagos.

You mentioned exploitation. Are you a strict vegan? Animal rightist? If so, then I totally understand your point of view. I don't agree with, at all, but I could understand it. For anyone who is not a strict vegan, aren't we all exploiting animals for personal gain? I certainly am.

I define exploitation as "to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage" If you raise a cow and eat it - that's hardly unfair or mean. Cows I think are meant to eat. Sulcatas I think are not meant to be pets due to size, lifespan and overall behavior - ramming fences, digging under houses, etc. People can't keep them easily, and the sulcatas unfortunately are the ones to suffer. No I am not a Vegan. Do you really have to be a Vegan to care for animal rights?

The 'exploiting' for most of us is 'win win'. We get a great pet and the tort get's a great home. Fresh food everyday. Fresh water daily. Protection from extreme weather. Protection from predators.

In the wild, how many hatclings survive the first year?
Do you think they enjoy droughts? Floods? No food or water for long periods of time? Extreme weather extremes? Constantly trying to survive and avoid predators.

Now and then a tort will end up in the wrong hands and get stuck in 'tort hell'. A tiny glass tank with hot dogs and iceburg lettuce for water. No heat or too much heat. And eventually they get sick and die. That sucks. But now we have the internet and more and more tort owners have help right at their fingertips.

Tortoises wouldn't have to worry about that if we didn't breed them by the hundreds and sell them where they don't naturally belong I'm sure it's win win when they get sold to xxxxxxxxx who don't know how to care for them too. Or for people who don't realize who big these guys get. People also have more access to tort suppliers who give false information or don't disclose enough information.

If no one bred them then people would take then out if the wild and keep them as pets. I would rather see them bred and made into dog food then have them all stolen out of the wild.


yeah if no one bred these torts, I'm sure people would be paddling over the Africa to get them...

My suggestion is that the mods delete this thread. Online defamation is a grey area of the law. I wouldn't want to jeopardize tortoiseforum.org and make its owner personally liable with this type of discussion when its linked to a specific individual and their business. Just a thought.

You really need to look into the definition and application of defamation.

I personally haven't found a single tortoise rescue online that is "overloaded" with sullys, and I've googled "sulcata tortoise rescue" several times. The most I've found is two sullies in a colorado rescue, and they only had 2 and several RES. And I've said all that before. I also don't think there was a whole lot wrong with the ad, they could have said "can live to be 100 if kept in proper conditions," but at least they did tell how large they get and leave you with the last line stating "large space needed" or whatever. They also didn't claim "easy to care for, quiet, a great pet for your children," which I've seen before. I personally am fine with the ad, and sulcata breeding, but that's just my opinion!

They definitely need to clearly state - in big bold letters that these torts get up to 200lbs and can live 100 years. They also need to specify how large of an area they are talking about. Sulcatas can't live in terrariums.

Thanks for the support (and common sense) to almost everyone involved in this thread. While I appreciate the concerns some people have about defamation (had a few e-mails also), I realize that there's always going to be idiots out there on the internet, and eventually, some of them are going to find me. I'm confident that 95% of the people that read this have common sense, and if so, this thread won't be damaging to me in any way.

If you want to call me an idiot, don't do it in a back handed way. You have in no way stated or shown that you cared for the life of the torts that are sold. if you did you would put more information. What harm could it do except to put a dent in profits? So where's the problem with simply giving more information on the website?

The problem is irresponsible people. Sulcatas or sulcata breeders are not the problem. Sure breeders can screen people as much as they can.

I rarely see classifieds where people are giving away sulcatas because they don't want them. Don't believe the hype. Maybe one day it will happen.

Do not blame Tyler/tortoisesupply for selling sulcatas like they are villains.

There will always be irresponsible people and responsible people who try to pick up the slack.

There are already at least a few threads of people bashing sulcata breeders. These kind of threads is what keeps me away from tortoiseforum. Perhaps, people would get more done about issues they care about if they used their time to educate the public rather than online-bashing someone they don't know.
I'm sure you don't see that many ads where people are giving away sulcatas. Do you know a lot of people with sulcatas? No? Maybe because they're dead or dumped off.

And by "bashing some one" - you mean a company? My post was directed at a company, not at the person. I am not bashing some one, I am bashing their actions. You seem compassionate - or maybe jaded and apathetic? Can't tell??
If you don't like these threads, don't read them.
They are not villains for simply selling them - they are villains for breeding, selling and not supplying enough information

ALSO I am not the only one who has an issue with Sulcata breeding: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-3231.html

 

[DonaTello's-Mom]

I have a few issues with this reply

The tortoises being bred by Tortoise Supply are not "wild" animals, they are bred for the pet industry. Doing this decreases the demand on actual wild tortoises from being taken out of the wild. To say "MOST owners" either kill their tortoises or the tortoises outgrow them is unfounded to say the least. But, if that happens it's the buyers responsibility not the sellers so I think your frustration is misguided.

Uhm where would you find a sulcata in the wild if it weren't for the pet industry???

And it is not unfounded. Not when you are talking about sulcatas. Are you educated about sulcatas?

Selling wild lions is dangerous, and I believe illegal in most states because it is dangerous for people. This is dangerous for the animals. Sulcatas are not well cared for, and should not be pets.


So does this mean that you yourself are not prepared for the responsibility of housing an adult sulcata? Why did you "rescue" it in the first place? Isn't that hypocritical?

Let's see I took Percy from a guy who kept him in a shoe box of dirt and brought him home where he roams and grazes all day...I'd say I did the right thing.

What I was saying is that even the most responsible and caring person is not going to be able to care for an adult sulcata. When Percy gets to be 100+ lbs, I am not sure if I will be able to house him in my backyard. If you know anything about sulcatas, you know this.

Again you say "most people" which is completley unfounded. There are more sulcata owners out there than you think and I would be willing to bet that the majority do take good care of them...of course that's just my opinion but I happen to know quite a few sulcata owners and can speak from experience.

You know few sulcatas, yet hundreds are probably sold everyday all over the US...hm. do the math. And yes it is your opinion. If you don't know the facts don't argue. Again - what do you know of sulcatas?

What obligation does any business have to screen people? I'm an accountant, if I screened all of my clients I would end up with none. In the business world it makes no sense. And it isn't just money, I'm sure Tyler will tell you it's a hobby for himself and for the people he sells to, and as I stated above it decreases the demand for wild caught specimens.

No but when you do compilations or returns, do you not have some responsibility for the integrity of the information you use to create these reports? And I'm glad his hobby is to make baby animals that will probably die.

I completely dissagree with you that sulcatas should not be pets. I have seen many sulcatas and I'm sure any owner here will tell you they are full of as much personality as any cat or dog. They are exotic and interesting and if properly cared for can bring as much joy into someones life as any other type of pet.

That's not why I have issues with sulcatas as pets. You're missing the boat.

I have been to a rescue here in AZ that has over 200 sulcatas. The rescue itself is breeding them and selling them, as well as selling the adults they get for free for a large profit. Do you see that as a problem? Tyler and others on this forum have offered to take in sulcatas from people who elsewise would give them to one of these rescues. There ARE homes for sulcatas, it seems the problem is that people don't do their homework and instead drop them off at a rescue because they think a rescue is a good place.


Do they not screen the new placements? What's the name of this rescue? Most rescues destroy the eggs because that is the humane thing to do. And you're right people don't do their homework. So people who sell them should put big red flags all over these torts and not just a high dollar sign.

I've never met Tyler in person, but have talked with him a few times. From what I can tell he is a good guy, and I can say that based on my experience with him. If you don't think what he is doing is right or he's a "bad guy" than don't buy from him or try to figure out why he does it BEFORE you come on here and tell everyone that what he is doing is terrible.

Well by all means - side with him because you like him and not because you actually know anything about sulcatas

---

What I don't understand is why you are so opposed to SULCATAS as pets. There are lots of other large outdoor pets out there. There are lots of other large tortoise species out there. We just recently had a thread discussing which species grow the largest and there have been Leopards and Yellowfoot tortoises over a hundred pound too. Several other species get over 50 pounds. Is it the size? Are you opposed to goats as pets? They come from Africa too and are all now captive bred and can get over a hundred pounds. I can tell you from experience , its much easier to handle a 100 lb, tort than a 100 lb. goat. What about Vietnamese Pot Bellied Pigs? Sheep?

Sulcatas get to be 200+lbs and live to be 100 years old. Most people just are not equipped to raise them. In most areas you can't own farm animals within city limits - there should be similar limitations on sulcatas. Also - goats are eaten and used for their milk - it's not a pet - not for long. Sulcatas are the second largest. Right under Galapagos.


My point was; most tortoise owners know how to take care of them properly and don't need a vet very often. Sure they can have health problems,even if you do everything right, but most of them are pretty hardy and healthy.

Actually I took Percy to the vet to make sure he didn't have worms, and to make sure his body was full of the vitamins he needed, etc. Which was the responsible thing to do. I think most pet owners should do the same depending on the pet. Sulcatas live so long. And yes, there are great people out there who take wonderful care of their sulcatas. But go in the sulcata thread and read how many times some one comes in there and says "wasn't told it was going to get this big." Most people assume these tortoises are not sold this easily - to whoever has a buck or two. They don't know what they are getting into.

Even the people who take wonderful care of their sulcatas have troubles with them when they get too big - that is the main issue. If a cat lived 100 years, it wouldn't be a problem because it shits in a cat box and can live in a small apartment.

AND not a one of them is a wild caught animal snatched from the wild in Africa.

Yes thank you for saying that because really - who is snatching these guys from the wild? And this is my point - lots of them sold, so very little survive. Those that do are hard to place in good homes because they get big, and live so long. That's the issue - the main difference between sulcatas and all other breeds of torts except galapagos.

You mentioned exploitation. Are you a strict vegan? Animal rightist? If so, then I totally understand your point of view. I don't agree with, at all, but I could understand it. For anyone who is not a strict vegan, aren't we all exploiting animals for personal gain? I certainly am.

I define exploitation as "to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage" If you raise a cow and eat it - that's hardly unfair or mean. Cows I think are meant to eat. Sulcatas I think are not meant to be pets due to size, lifespan and overall behavior - ramming fences, digging under houses, etc. People can't keep them easily, and the sulcatas unfortunately are the ones to suffer. No I am not a Vegan. Do you really have to be a Vegan to care for animal rights?

The 'exploiting' for most of us is 'win win'. We get a great pet and the tort get's a great home. Fresh food everyday. Fresh water daily. Protection from extreme weather. Protection from predators.

In the wild, how many hatclings survive the first year?
Do you think they enjoy droughts? Floods? No food or water for long periods of time? Extreme weather extremes? Constantly trying to survive and avoid predators.

Now and then a tort will end up in the wrong hands and get stuck in 'tort hell'. A tiny glass tank with hot dogs and iceburg lettuce for water. No heat or too much heat. And eventually they get sick and die. That sucks. But now we have the internet and more and more tort owners have help right at their fingertips.

Tortoises wouldn't have to worry about that if we didn't breed them by the hundreds and sell them where they don't naturally belong I'm sure it's win win when they get sold to xxxxxx who don't know how to care for them too. Or for people who don't realize who big these guys get. People also have more access to tort suppliers who give false information or don't disclose enough information.

If no one bred them then people would take then out if the wild and keep them as pets. I would rather see them bred and made into dog food then have them all stolen out of the wild.


yeah if no one bred these torts, I'm sure people would be paddling over the Africa to get them...

My suggestion is that the mods delete this thread. Online defamation is a grey area of the law. I wouldn't want to jeopardize tortoiseforum.org and make its owner personally liable with this type of discussion when its linked to a specific individual and their business. Just a thought.

You really need to look into the definition and application of defamation.

I personally haven't found a single tortoise rescue online that is "overloaded" with sullys, and I've googled "sulcata tortoise rescue" several times. The most I've found is two sullies in a colorado rescue, and they only had 2 and several RES. And I've said all that before. I also don't think there was a whole lot wrong with the ad, they could have said "can live to be 100 if kept in proper conditions," but at least they did tell how large they get and leave you with the last line stating "large space needed" or whatever. They also didn't claim "easy to care for, quiet, a great pet for your children," which I've seen before. I personally am fine with the ad, and sulcata breeding, but that's just my opinion!

They definitely need to clearly state - in big bold letters that these torts get up to 200lbs and can live 100 years. They also need to specify how large of an area they are talking about. Sulcatas can't live in terrariums.

Thanks for the support (and common sense) to almost everyone involved in this thread. While I appreciate the concerns some people have about defamation (had a few e-mails also), I realize that there's always going to be idiots out there on the internet, and eventually, some of them are going to find me. I'm confident that 95% of the people that read this have common sense, and if so, this thread won't be damaging to me in any way.

If you want to call me an idiot, don't do it in a back handed way. You have in no way stated or shown that you cared for the life of the torts that are sold. if you did you would put more information. What harm could it do except to put a dent in profits? So where's the problem with simply giving more information on the website?

The problem is irresponsible people. Sulcatas or sulcata breeders are not the problem. Sure breeders can screen people as much as they can.

I rarely see classifieds where people are giving away sulcatas because they don't want them. Don't believe the hype. Maybe one day it will happen.

Do not blame Tyler/tortoisesupply for selling sulcatas like they are villains.

There will always be irresponsible people and responsible people who try to pick up the slack.

There are already at least a few threads of people bashing sulcata breeders. These kind of threads is what keeps me away from tortoiseforum. Perhaps, people would get more done about issues they care about if they used their time to educate the public rather than online-bashing someone they don't know.
I'm sure you don't see that many ads where people are giving away sulcatas. Do you know a lot of people with sulcatas? No? Maybe because they're dead or dumped off.

And by "bashing some one" - you mean a company? My post was directed at a company, not at the person. I am not bashing some one, I am bashing their actions. You seem compassionate - or maybe jaded and apathetic? Can't tell??
If you don't like these threads, don't read them.
They are not villains for simply selling them - they are villains for breeding, selling and not supplying enough information

ALSO I am not the only one who has an issue with Sulcata breeding: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-3231.html

---

Oh please! Can't someone just close this thread?........sorry Jane-whatever, your giving me a headache! Ooops, did I say that?

 

[janiedough]

Oh please! Can't someone just close this thread?........sorry Jane-whatever, your giving me a headache! Ooops, did I say that?

why do all of you want this thread closed?

because you don't agree?


because you don't have an argument as to why these people can't put more information or more of a warning on their website?

yeah...that's what I thought.

Come on people - really - I dare you to give me a good reason as to why they shouldn't put these warnings on their website.

"Because others don't"
"Because they don't have to"
Lame.

---

and I just want to say if the thread is closed - that's bull corn because I have not personally attacked anyone. If anything - all of you are giving me a headache saying the same thing and not giving good reasons or arguments - especially from most of you who don't own or know about sulcatas.

 

[DonaTello's-Mom]

Because your barking up the wrong tree, and I'm sorry, it's quite annoying. I think the 'care sheet' was good 'as is'. If you feel this strongly I suggest YOU put a (what YOU feel is 'the best') caresheet on the world wide internet for all too view. Maybe this will help ease your mind knowing you've done what YOU think is best for sulcata's.......just my opinion, take it or leave.

 

[janiedough]

Because your barking up the wrong tree, and I'm sorry, it's quite annoying. I think the 'care sheet' was good 'as is'. If you feel this strongly I suggest YOU put a (what YOU feel is 'the best') caresheet on the world wide internet for all too view. Maybe this will help ease your mind knowing you've done what YOU think is best for sulcata's.......just my opinion, take it or leave.

why am I barking up the wrong tree?
This site is supposed to HELP tortoises. That's what I am trying to do.

Me putting up a caresheet is not going to keep people from know what they are buying on this website.

Again - any reason as to why they cannot put more information/warning about sulcatas?

 

[RichardS]

XXXX

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I will close this thread if you don't watch your language and have respect for those around you...debatable does not mean that you can use gutter language or speak disrespectfully to those you disagree with. Remember this is a family forum and we are mostly friends here...

 

[DonaTello's-Mom]

I'm sorry to say, you are in the minority on this topic. I give you credit for all your 'passion' on this subject but really, there's so many other animals in this world that need help and sulcata's are not one of them.

 

[Rhyno47]

As far as reptiles go I would give it a 6 on the dangerous/difficulty scale. There is a huge demand for poisonous snakes and giant constrictors. Crocodillians and large monitor lizards are on the rise as well. So as far as dangerous animals go Sulcatas are on the bottom of my watch list. Granted they can be tricky. When they are young their is the whole humidity/pyramiding scare, but as they age that goes away and you have to deal with space and food. On every web page I've seen they clearly state that they get big and love to wreck up landscaping. I hardy doubt that its the web-based breeders. On the other hand I have been in pet stores that sell sulcatas and call them African Desert Tortoises or just African Tortoises. Also at many pet stores they sell "tortoise kits" many of which use a sulcata as the tortoise on the cover. These kits are aquariums with alfalfa pellets as substrate. So dont blame breeders blame pet stores.

 

[janiedough]

I'm sorry to say, you are in the minority on this topic. I give you credit for all your 'passion' on this subject but really, there's so many other animals in this world that need help and sulcata's are not one of them.

I am the minority in this one thread. Most people who are good and true to what is right ARE in the minority. It doesn't bother me.

What does bother me is that this supplier sponsors this forum (so he seems to care and be educated) and yet does not put forth a smaller bit of effort to put the proper warnings.

As far as reptiles go I would give it a 6 on the dangerous/difficulty scale. There is a huge demand for poisonous snakes and giant constrictors. Crocodillians and large monitor lizards are on the rise as well. So as far as dangerous animals go Sulcatas are on the bottom of my watch list. Granted they can be tricky. When they are young their is the whole humidity/pyramiding scare, but as they age that goes away and you have to deal with space and food. On every web page I've seen they clearly state that they get big and love to wreck up landscaping. I hardy doubt that its the web-based breeders. On the other hand I have been in pet stores that sell sulcatas and call them African Desert Tortoises or just African Tortoises. Also at many pet stores they sell "tortoise kits" many of which use a sulcata as the tortoise on the cover. These kits are aquariums with alfalfa pellets as substrate. So dont blame breeders blame pet stores.

We are talking about this supplier. did you go to their website? do you feel they have a substantial warning/information about the needs of the sulcatas?

Sulcatas are not dangerous or OVERLY difficult until they get older. The difficult part is when they get too big to put in aquariums or indoors.

Then people don't know what to do with them.

 

[Rhyno47]

Actually the website is one of my bookmarks. I regret not getting my sulcata from TortoiseSupply.com

 

[DonaTello's-Mom]

janiedough said:
"What does bother me is that this supplier sponsors this forum (so he seems to care and be educated) and yet does not put forth a smaller bit of effort to put the proper warnings."

If you felt it was a 'smaller bit of effort' then why couldn't YOU put forth that 'small bit of effort' to contact him with your concerns?? Rather than insulting him on a 'public' forum janiedough? Ever heard the saying 'you'll get more with honey than vinegar'.....try it sometime.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

My sister has been involved in turtle and tortoise rescue for over 30 years and when I injured myself in 2003 and started volunteering at her rescue there were many homeless Sulcata. I am also friends with a woman who runs a rescue in New York state and there as with Yvonne's were many homeless Sulcata. Zoo's wouldn't take them anymore neither would any other animal exhibit like a zoo. That is not the case anymore. With my traveling coast to coast I had the opportunity to see many of these places and then they were overrun with Sulcata, that is not the case anymore. Many tortoise people got together and did something about the over population of Sulcata. I know first hand that rescues are NOT overrun with Sulcata anymore. The ability to place them in homes opened up thanks to the work of many tortoise people coast to coast. I challenge anyone to find a rescue that can't find homes for Sulcata.
I am the keeper of an 80 pound Sulcata. He is only 11 years old. I cannot say that he hasn't caused some trouble for me, but with the help of some friends my yard was changed around and he is now set up in a situation that is safer for him and nicer for me. Bob is a being that is so full of personality he makes me laugh out loud. He follows me around as I go about my chores ever looking for that strawberry he knows I have. When I get down to pull weeds he climbs up in my lap and sniffs my face all over, then finds that pocket with the ever elusive strawberry. I push him off of me and run across the grass with him chasing me right at my heels. I would hate the thought of never having the chance to keep this wonderful animal. You should see the crowds he draws when I take him to sit on Santa's lap. Yes, I do that. And I use that time to talk to the people about Sulcata and how to keep them and just how there used to be so many homeless. I took him to get microchipped and met DoctorCousmought there. I used that crowd as another opportunity to educate the people about Sulcata. I use every chance I get to take Bob out in the public and talk to the crowds he draws about keeping Sulcata. There are many keepers like me doing what I do and that is one reason or hundreds why there aren't so many homeless Sulcata anymore. Because a lot of people just like me educated a group of people about Sulcata.
I would hate the thought that I wouldn't have been able to keep Bob because some law or some person didn't understand and robbed me of the enjoyment that is King Robert III

 

[janiedough]

"What does bother me is that this supplier sponsors this forum (so he seems to care and be educated) and yet does not put forth a smaller bit of effort to put the proper warnings."

If you felt it was a 'smaller bit of effort' then why couldn't YOU put forth that 'small bit of effort' to contact him with your concerns?? Rather than insulting him on a 'public' forum janiedough? Ever heard the saying 'you'll get more with honey than vinegar'.....try it sometime.

I put this here to be debated - to be discussed. To ask why were they allowed to advertise on the board when they were like this.

Then they came on and said he was a sponsor and wasn't one of the bad guys, etc.

If he's not - then he can put more info.

---

My sister has been involved in turtle and tortoise rescue for over 30 years and when I injured myself in 2003 and started volunteering at her rescue there were many homeless Sulcata. I am also friends with a woman who runs a rescue in New York state and there as with Yvonne's were many homeless Sulcata. Zoo's wouldn't take them anymore neither would any other animal exhibit like a zoo. That is not the case anymore. With my traveling coast to coast I had the opportunity to see many of these places and then they were overrun with Sulcata, that is not the case anymore. Many tortoise people got together and did something about the over population of Sulcata. I know first hand that rescues are NOT overrun with Sulcata anymore. The ability to place them in homes opened up thanks to the work of many tortoise people coast to coast. I challenge anyone to find a rescue that can't find homes for Sulcata.
I am the keeper of an 80 pound Sulcata. He is only 11 years old. I cannot say that he hasn't caused some trouble for me, but with the help of some friends my yard was changed around and he is now set up in a situation that is safer for him and nicer for me. Bob is a being that is so full of personality he makes me laugh out loud. He follows me around as I go about my chores ever looking for that strawberry he knows I have. When I get down to pull weeds he climbs up in my lap and sniffs my face all over, then finds that pocket with the ever elusive strawberry. I push him off of me and run across the grass with him chasing me right at my heels. I would hate the thought of never having the chance to keep this wonderful animal. You should see the crowds he draws when I take him to sit on Santa's lap. Yes, I do that. And I use that time to talk to the people about Sulcata and how to keep them and just how there used to be so many homeless. I took him to get microchipped and met DoctorCousmought there. I used that crowd as another opportunity to educate the people about Sulcata. I use every chance I get to take Bob out in the public and talk to the crowds he draws about keeping Sulcata. There are many keepers like me doing what I do and that is one reason or hundreds why there aren't so many homeless Sulcata anymore. Because a lot of people just like me educated a group of people about Sulcata.
I would hate the thought that I wouldn't have been able to keep Bob because some law or some person didn't understand and robbed me of the enjoyment that is King Robert III

Thank you Maggie.

But do you not agree that suppliers/breeders need to be more specific and warn people more when they are selling sulcatas?

 

[kimber_lee_314]

Janie - I do agree with you. I don't think sulcatas or RES should be deliberately bred. I also don't think people should be breeding dogs and cats when there are SO many dying everyday. I don't think people should be having children when they don't have the proper knowledge or resources to raise them. I think the care sheet mentioned is one of the better ones I've seen though so I applaud Tyler for it. The bottom line is you can only state your opinion and try to help educate as many people as possible about their care. It's only through education that we can really make changes.