To Much Mazuri?

[wellington]

I didn't think they would eat it off the plant but do think they'll eat it.

I have never seen or heard of them or farmers having problems with them. The farmers I know/knew are up in Michigan. They have lots of wild life. Deer are the corns enemy. Now, if there is deer, there will be coyotes, but they want the deer not the corn.

 

[wellington]

@wellington
@jaizei
@Tom
Curious to see what you all think ... If a dog would eat wheat if it wasn't in their food. If a dog was running through a field of wheat would it eat?

Nope, don't think they would. Now they might grab it in like a playful, it's in my way type thing, but they would spit it out. There is always those screw balls that would eat it. My EBT (English bull terrier) would like eat anything.

 

[EppsDynasty]

I feed my Dog a NO corn and NO wheat diet. Just can't get myself to believe it is what a dog would eat.

 

[Yvonne G]

@wellington
@jaizei
@Tom
Curious to see what you all think ... If a dog would eat wheat if it wasn't in their food. If a dog was running through a field of wheat would it eat?

You didn't ask me, but I would say no. They eat grass, but not necessarily the seeds off the grass.

 

[EppsDynasty]

You didn't ask me, but I would say no. They eat grass, but not necessarily the seeds off the grass.

I figured you were a No corn No wheat type a feeder already.

 

[ryan57]

Both of my sulcatas eat mazuri everyday. If the food is not freshly cut they will refuse to eat it. The small one that is almost 100g!! is extremely gifted with a beak and can pick all greens out of mixed mazuri just started eating all the mazuri last week. Only gets a pinch a day of LS small tortoise (for the first year). Little one eats dried mulberry, moringa, dandelion, cactus, etc. too.

The approximate ratio that seems to work daily for our 4month old tortoise is 30% finely chopped grass / dandelion weeds, 20% mazuri, 50% chopped greens (radicchio, endive, kale, Swiss chard, bok choi, dandelion greens, mustard greens, turnip greens, etc.) -w- no stalks. Not picky on the greens offered at all and they are ALWAYS all gone come evening. Mazuri until last week was usually left but nothing green. This morning I was watching him eat the mazuri only so... great news.

Now 'little stump'... fed Mazuri LS small tortoise for the first 9 months with chopped greens and mid spring, at about 1 year old this March, he discovered that grass is delicious and the whole yard is food. I've stopped increasing his portion of Mazuri and it seems that he will only eat about half a coffee mug every day of soaked pellets on top of his greens, grass and weeds. If I make any more, they will be left over. He eats about 70-75% grass and weeds, 20% greens and 5-10% mazuri LS (not small tortoise) by volume every day. Will eat everything offered like a garbage disposal and not picky at all any more. He is 1yr 9months and 21lbs. 15" long, 11" wide and 8" tall... 10" when standing as measured this evening. I'm sure I could cut the Mazuri at any time but prefer to always feed some because of the gut maintenance properties. By next summer they will end up being the 'croutons' on the morning salad but still every day.

Both of them poop daily, both release urates and urine every or every other day. Stump now gets really, really, uh, pissed if you disturb his soak. It's now about an hour daily. He likes the wand for a warm shower while the tub is filling and if you go in the room after he is soaking, he will start breathing real heavy through his nose as a warning. If you walk away he will make no sound. Go back in and he tries to warn you like an air powered rattlesnake. If you drain the water he stands up on the front feet and runs to the drain as the water is swirling and then either makes sudden movements communicating his displeasure and bangs his side against the tub. If you fill it back up, all is good for another 30 minutes or so. I have video of this.


This was from early last week.

 

[RosemaryDW]

Curious to see what you all think ... If a dog would eat wheat if it wasn't in their food. If a dog was running through a field of wheat would it eat?

I don't think any mammals are going to eat much in the way of unprocessed wheat! Dogs included.

Pretty sure the corn that is being used in Mazuri is feed corn though, not corn that is grown to be eaten fresh by humans. Feed corn has way less sugar and moisture than table corn. Dogs will eat garbage though, so who knows what they might do with feed corn.

 

[jaizei]

Thank you for this info.

What are your thoughts on large amounts of ground corn (Mazuri) fermenting in the gut of giant tortoises? Think that is a possibility?

The idea of what the problem would be is that the starch in the corn ferments faster than the forage they naturally eat leading to acidosis, it happens with livestock. idk how often it would be a problem since livestock is often fed straight corn vs a 'chow' like Mazuri that includes other ingredients. Tortoises need less energy, and tortoise digestion has to have some differences from those of mammals/livestock. Variations in body temperature throughout the day/night vs the consistent body temperature in mammals. Presumably the zoo animals that were first fed Mazuri were under more observation (veterinarian), and realistically had less access to forage than most pet tortoises, so I'd think serious problems would have been noticed before it became a 'normal' consumer product.

@wellington
@jaizei
@Tom
Curious to see what you all think ... If a dog would eat wheat if it wasn't in their food. If a dog was running through a field of wheat would it eat?

No. But I doubt many humans going through that field would think of it as food either.

I don't think any mammals are going to eat much in the way of unprocessed wheat! Dogs included.

Pretty sure the corn that is being used in Mazuri is feed corn though, not corn that is grown to be eaten fresh by humans. Feed corn has way less sugar and moisture than table corn. Dogs will eat garbage though, so who knows what they might do with feed corn.

I've seen dogs try to eat feed corn alongside goats and sheep plenty of times.

 

[RosemaryDW]

I've seen dogs try to eat feed corn alongside goats and sheep plenty of times.

Like I said, they'll eat garbage. Why not raw, unprocessed grits!

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Any single diet item violates the first rule of "Tortoise Food Club" which is to offer variety. I don't like or use Mazuri. At a minimum it's fiber values and profile are not tortoise appropriate. I have argued this with Mazuri people who walk around at reptile shows. It's just not that great by many standards. Even the NEW formula.

If you want an inexpensive way to feed bulk (a very valid consideration) you can use senior horse grass or plain grass pellets (orchard and/or Burmuda). Timothy hay is a second choice, it is so oversold as a panacea tortoise food I have bad thoughts towards people who beat the timothy hay drum.

If you want to spike the nutrient content of grass pellets you can mix in a small amount of chicken layer crumbles.

 

[ryan57]

Any single diet item violates the first rule of "Tortoise Food Club" which is to offer variety. I don't like or use Mazuri. At a minimum it's fiber values and profile are not tortoise appropriate. I have argued this with Mazuri people who walk around at reptile shows. It's just not that great by many standards. Even the NEW formula.

If you want an inexpensive way to feed bulk (a very valid consideration) you can use senior horse grass or plain grass pellets (orchard and/or Burmuda). Timothy hay is a second choice, it is so oversold as a panacea tortoise food I have bad thoughts towards people who beat the timothy hay drum.

If you want to spike the nutrient content of grass pellets you can mix in a small amount of chicken layer crumbles.

Will,

By the way, both of my tortoises, Stump (above) and my little one are eating all of your stuff mixed into their greens dry, chopped grass that I get from the yard PLUS a small portion of Mazuri daily. Mainly to ensure that their gut bacteria stays well while they are growing. I have to smash the mazuri to almost a powder to get it to adhere to the leaves before the little one would eat it.

That said, I will never increase Stump's daily portion beyond what it is now which is half a coffee mug. Stump loves the soaked cactus chunks you sent even though your machine was down for making smaller shreds.

I have noticed that they both like the cactus flower mixed in heavily a couple days a week. It must be really tasty/exciting to them. Mulberry, Moringa, Dandelion, etc. are rotated through the week for variety.

I have to say, fortunately I guess, I do NOT have 2 picky eaters but rather 2 garbage disposals at this point. They both have had a variety from the first few weeks and chopping up the food size appropriate worked for them. Even raddichio and cabbage, different color stuff for the little one. He was used to that and will eat your stuff dry if offered. If it's on the plate, it's game on.

Thank you.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

The zoo endorsement would probably be enough for me. Their decades long track record with it, that is.
However.
I've been using the 5M21 to supplement my RFs diet for some 30 plus years now.
While I can't give Mazuri credit for the healthy tortoises I've raised and/or brought back from very rough conditions. What I can say is that a diet pretty consistent in 5M21 is certainly not harmful to the species.
It has been instrumental in administering needed drugs at times and has been used as a slurry for tube feedings. It seems to be a very good component in a varied and healthy diet. I'd say it's about 10% of what I feed. Maybe a bit less in the summer when other "better" foods are super easily obtained.
I do actually use it as 100% of that days feeding when I need to in an emergency. It's rare. But it's great to have that as a trusted option.
And I do trust it.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I feed my Dog a NO corn and NO wheat diet. Just can't get myself to believe it is what a dog would eat.

Neither do I.
But for tortoises. At least my RF tortoises. That 5M21 seems to be a strange case of the product being superior to the quality of its components.
Corn and molasses probably don't effect their GI tract like it might some other species. I must admit that my experience is laser focused on this one species.
That alone might disqualify me from this discussion