3 Killer Whales die within 4 months at Sea World

[terryo]

OK...that was a great post Tom....thank you. I can understand where you are coming from, and do appreciate your point of view, and your opinion.

 

[Tom]

I have no doubt in my mind that the trainers love these animals- that's not the issue here, and I don't think anyone is trying to imply that.
They care for them as best as they possibly can in captivity...which is not ultimately what is best for them. The ocean is their natural habitat and it's where they belong.

In the Wild...
• Orcas live in large, closely-knit, highly complex social groups typically numbering 5 - 25 members.
• Members are related by blood and remain together for life.
• The pod may travel as many as 160 km (100 miles) in a day, in a home range of maybe 800 - 1,500 km (500-900 miles).
• They forage for live prey and socialise, rest and play as a cohesive group.
• Free will and freedom of movement characterise their existence.
• They are supremely adapted over centuries to cope with the rigours of life in the wild.

In Captivity:
• From the moment an orca is taken into captivity, this free will and freedom of movement is virtually obliterated. From this moment onwards, humans will mastermind the captive orca’s life.
• Home is a bare and largely featureless concrete tank, minuscule compared to their natural ocean habitat.
• Artificially salinated and chlorinated water usually replace natural seawater.
• Captives must learn to accept dead fish.
• Blood-bonds are replaced by forced associations, with orcas from different pods and different oceans being routinely mixed and matched.
• Calves are routinely moved from their mother at a very tender age.
• In 1999, at least four facilities keep a solitary orca, and Keiko is solitary in Iceland
• Natural daily routines and social interactions are replaced by forced and highly artificial show routines.
• Above all, the orca's quality of life is severely compromised.

From this (rather lengthy!) article: http://www.wdcs.org/submissions_bin/orcareport.pdf
A great read if you can find the time!

Katie, how do you think they know all that stuff about wild orcas? Who do you think paid for the expeditions and research to discover all of that? Regardless of who paid for it, who do you think actually went out and DID that research? I'll bet it was someone who absolutely loves and is fascinated by orcas. Where do you think they developed that fascination? Do you think they did a google search about killer whales and then decided to devote their life's work to them. Or do you think they saw one, in person, and fell in love with the majesty, beauty and gracefulness while staring in awe at a live animal?

Also, the points about what happens in the wild and captivity are ridiculously negatively slanted. Allow me to re-write them with the same ridiculous slant the other way. You'll see its ludicrous and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Orcas in captivity:

-From the moment an orca enters his new life at our state of the art multi-million dollar facility, he is free from the polluted water, constant desperate search for food, internal and external parasites the plague his wild counter parts, competition from bullying dominant animals and his every need and want is tended to by a staff of hundreds of dedicated, loving, devoted, professional caretakers.
-they get a clean, well filtered, constantly monitored, multi-million gallon pool with a full time staff devoted to maintaining perfect water quality.
-clean, perfectly balanced salt-water replaces the unfiltered, sometimes dangerously polluted ocean water that their wild counter parts must contend with.
-they are fed a well balanced, interesting, nutritious diet, that is constantly monitored and adjusted by a team of professional cetacean nutritionists. Any necessary supplements are tended to on a daily basis.
-they are blessed with the opportunity to free swim for hours a day, just like they do in the wild.
-they get to meet and interact with new friends and form life-long bonds. They routinely like their new friends so much that captive breeding is now a reality.
-unlike in the wild, if a new calf is neglected by its mother, it can be given tender loving care by a dedicated, loving, professional staff and successfully raised to adult hood. In the wild these poor calves would be eaten alive or slowly starve to death in an agonizing, prolonged way.
-as of 1999 four facilities have been forced into keeping solitary animals due to well-intentioned, but mis-informed people and countries passing all sorts of restrictive laws forbidding the sale and transport of these majestic animals. Pressure from animal rights group PREVENTS these facilities from being able to properly house their whales with other whales. If only they'd spend all that money to properly house and socialize these whales instead of ignorantly calling for them to be released into the oceans and their slow torturous death.
-each day the whales get hours of social interaction and they CHOOSE to participate in simulating natural behaviors on cue. They get get their complete daily food intake whether they participate or not, so we know that they enjoy these interactions with dedicated, loving, devoted, professional cetacean behaviorists. All interactions are reviewed and constantly scrutinized for ways to make life for enjoyable, fun and fulfilling for our whale ambassadors.
-above all the orcas live a wonderful life free of the multitude of dangers, parasites, strife, starvation, persecution an uncertainties of their wild counterparts. We are very glad to be able to offer them this enjoyable life style while allowing them to educate millions of people with their majesty and grace.

I could re-do the "in the wild" part too, but I think you get the point. Whoever wrote that has an obvious bias and wants you to feel and re-act the way you did. Now they want you to call up PETA and give them all your money so that these poor creatures won't have to "SUFFER" the "horrors" of captivity, bondage, abuse and slavery. I could do a google search and get the PETA donation hotline number for you...

 

[Candy]

Now if we can get back to the point of this thread it would be appreciated. I wanted people to see the video and wonder for themselves why this could be happening to these innocent whales. I want people to ask themselves really why they go to see these whales doing tricks and why humans are entertained by it. I want them to ask themselves is it worth it? Couldn't there be a better way to learn about them then this? I spent part of today reading about them and came across some interesting stuff if anyone is interested in reading it. I found a few experts and their opinions are written down by chance you want to read them and what they think about captive whales and what their everyday life is like and how long they live in the wild compared to captive. I think that you will find that these are people who have studied these whales for many years and I am going to a couple bio's so you can see for yourself there credentials. There's also opinions on animal behavior and what they think they go through in captivity compared to the wild. I only know what I read and what common sense tells me about Killer Whales being kept in captivity. From what I've read I cannot honestly say that we should continue this process of capturing them. I won't argue with facts as long as their substantiated so if anyone can post research on the side of captivity and how it benefits the whales please post it so I and all of the others who are interested here can read it. I would more they welcome the other side to this subject. I do not want hearsay or opinions that are not based on expert research as this would not help us make up our minds. Here are a few of the websites that I found information from today. I think there's even a video if anyone's interested.

http://www.oceanfutures.org/news/blog/death-captive-orca

http://www.oceanfutures.org/news/blog/statement-releasing-captive-orcas

http://www.pbs.org/kqed/oceanadventures/

http://video.pbs.org/video/1094847767

This is a very informative one

http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/22965

http://biotelemetry.ucdavis.edu/pages/bio_Giles.htm

http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/faculty/bjmccowan/

http://www.montereybaywhalewatch.com/Features/WildKillerWhales1002.htm

Please take the time to research this issue. Thank you.

 

[Candy]

Sorry I posted the above and it didn't come through so I re-posted it and it came through.

 

[Tom]

Candy, all of the things you posted are all written by groups with the same bias and politics. Just like the above example, I can take whatever facts you give me and spin it however I want. Are you not aware that most "studies" are slanted to prove whatever the person was trying to prove in the first place. Any controversial subject will have opposing sides with "facts" to back up their POV. The funny thing is that sometimes each side will use the SAME facts and claim that it proves THEIR argument is the right one.

Bottom line is: You and lots of other people in the world don't think these whales should be in captivity. Me and lots of other people in the world think its great and there is tremendous benefit to the species and the people because of it. We won't ever agree and neither care what "facts" the other side presents. I know what I've seen with my own eyes and from real people who actually work with these animals on a daily basis, and you know what you've read on the internet and we aren't going to change each other's minds.

Here's what I ask for in any situation like this: If you don't agree with it, don't go there. But don't try to make everyone else live their lives by your beliefs. Same thing with any other controversial subject. Drugs, guns, abortion, politics, religion, etc...

 

[Candy]

This is from Tom's thread that didn't post:

Candy, all of the things you posted are all written by groups with the same bias and politics. Just like the above example, I can take whatever facts you give me and spin it however I want. Are you not aware that most "studies" are slanted to prove whatever the person was trying to prove in the first place. Any controversial subject will have opposing sides with "facts" to back up their POV. The funny thing is that sometimes each side will use the SAME facts and claim that it proves THEIR argument is the right one.

Bottom line is: You and lots of other people in the world don't think these whales should be in captivity. Me and lots of other people in the world think its great and there is tremendous benefit to the species and the people because of it. We won't ever agree and neither care what "facts" the other side presents. I know what I've seen with my own eyes and from real people who actually work with these animals on a daily basis, and you know what you've read on the internet and we aren't going to change each other's minds.

Here's what I ask for in any situation like this: If you don't agree with it, don't go there. But don't try to make everyone else live their lives by your beliefs. Same thing with any other controversial subject. Drugs, guns, abortion, politics, religion, etc...


This is my response:


My response to you Tom is that you obviously didn't read any of the articles that I had posted. Bias is in everything that does not mean that the research or the information given is wrong. Do you think that you have no bias here? The only thing that I asked you to do is to post research or information to support your side of this issue. Giving me opinions and observations of the trainers and you going to see what they do in their jobs or talking to them about their everyday routines is not research (at least not documented research). I am not trying to convince anyone to do anything. I'm only providing information to be read and then they can make up their own minds as to whether they want to support this or not. Now you made a statement earlier about us not agreeing with the facts that we both are posting but you left something out didn't you? You didn't present any facts. Tom if you never look at the other side of something (I mean really look with an open mind) then how will you ever know the truth? You have to be able to look at both side fairly to make an educated decision. I can't go on just what someone says is right there has to be something more to back it up, but again that's just me.

---

Sorry I posted the above and it didn't come through so I re-posted it and it came through.

This is from Tom's thread that didn't post:

Candy, all of the things you posted are all written by groups with the same bias and politics. Just like the above example, I can take whatever facts you give me and spin it however I want. Are you not aware that most "studies" are slanted to prove whatever the person was trying to prove in the first place. Any controversial subject will have opposing sides with "facts" to back up their POV. The funny thing is that sometimes each side will use the SAME facts and claim that it proves THEIR argument is the right one.

Bottom line is: You and lots of other people in the world don't think these whales should be in captivity. Me and lots of other people in the world think its great and there is tremendous benefit to the species and the people because of it. We won't ever agree and neither care what "facts" the other side presents. I know what I've seen with my own eyes and from real people who actually work with these animals on a daily basis, and you know what you've read on the internet and we aren't going to change each other's minds.

Here's what I ask for in any situation like this: If you don't agree with it, don't go there. But don't try to make everyone else live their lives by your beliefs. Same thing with any other controversial subject. Drugs, guns, abortion, politics, religion, etc...


This is my response:


My response to you Tom is that you obviously didn't read any of the articles that I had posted. Bias is in everything that does not mean that the research or the information posted is wrong. Do you think that you have no bias here? The only thing that I asked you to do is to post research or information to support your side of this issue. Giving me opinions and observations of the trainers and you going to see what they do in their jobs or talking to them about their everyday routines is not research. I am not trying to convince anyone to do anything. I'm only providing information to be read and then they can make up their own minds as to whether they want to support this or not. Now you made a statement earlier about us not agreeing with the facts that we both are posting but you left something out didn't you? You didn't present any facts. Tom if you never look at the other side of something (I mean really look with an open mind) then how will you ever know the truth? You have to be able to look at both side fairly to make an educated decision. I can't go on just what someone says is right there has to be something more to back it up, but again that's just me.

 

[Candy]

I think there have been some good points raised on both sides on this issue.

Chad- I really appreciated your comments.

The first time I saw orcas in the wild it was such a humbling experience. I remember thinking that the whales looked so tiny. At first I thought they were all babies. Then I realized that I was used to seeing them in tanks. I wanted to share some photos of a pod of orcas that I saw around Seward, Alaska. I took them from a boat so they are not the best. Obviously the whales did not know they were supposed to pose for pictures!

I wanted to tell you Bethany those are absolutely awesome pictures that you took. Thanks for posting them.

 

[Candy]

Sorry I posted the above and it didn't come through so I re-posted it and it came through.

 

[ChiKat]

What is beneficial to the whales being kept in captivity?

 

[jdawn]

Candy: Thank you for your post and your references~ It is compelling and well presented.

Bethany: Fabulous photos!

 

[Candy]

Candy: Thank you for your post and your references~ It is compelling and well presented.

Bethany: Fabulous photos!

Thank you so much for that. I appreciate it.

 

[Kalina]

Well Tom it seems that your emotions are actually getting the best of you on this thread.

That's just ridiculous. This has nothing to do with emotions, except yours which are the basis for all of your points. As for your citations, someone earning a PHD does not make them all knowing and unbiased. For an example of incompetent advice from a doctor, look at some of the veterinary advice given for tortoises. Most vets are still telling people that torts pyramid due to excess protein in the diet.

I bring up the trainers and my friends because they work with these animals ALL DAY, EVERY DAY. Don't you think they know more than someone who read a book or went to college? They know these animals better than they know their own families sometimes. They sleep poolside whenever there is a problem or imminent birth.

What I'm saying is that through my experiences and friends, I know more about these animals than the average person, but I don't know enough about what it takes to make them "happy" or meet their needs to be making the judgement calls and blanket assertions that you are making. You know even less than me.

And with all due respect to TerryO, all of our torts have huge natural ranges in the wild. You think your 12" tort has enough room in your back yard? He'd be cramped in a 10 acre pen compared to the wild. I don't see where the disconnect is between YOUR captive wild animals and Sea World's captive wild animals is. If you say that some were wild caught, well so were some of yours and their parents. It is completely hypocritical to point the finger at Sea World for housing captive animals that you decided, based on unfounded emotion, shouldn't be captive, while you have an assortment of captive animals for your own entertainment in your own back yard! If you think the rank and file at Sea World and similar parks is in it for the money, then you are ridiculously ignorant. They get paid squat and have terrible benefits. This is a primary reason that I decided not to throw fish and blow a whistle for a living. I love the water. I love training. And I love cetaceans. But I didn't want to live a life of poverty, so I chose to work elsewhere. Those people do it out of passion and love for the animals. I think its terrible that you would take away their meager lively-hood, their reason for living, and a tremendous educational opportunity for the general public, because you have decided to have a hypocritical animal rightist slant.

Remember, the reason we are all here on this forum is because we all have captive wild animals in our own homes. There is no difference in your CDT or redfoots and my sulcatas and leopards and Sea World's Killer Whales. Same concept, same difference. You and me selfishly keep ours hidden away in our backyards while at least Sea World, the other parks and the zoos are taking terrific steps toward educating the public and conservation for these animals in the wild. There is a reason why captive animals are called "ambassadors" for their species.

---

The role of captive wild animals in our society is awkward. We have done it for about as far back as recorded history goes, and it has become increasingly controversial. We used to do it to show off our dominion over animals, our wealth, our hunting prowness, or other forms of ego and pride. Then, it became a business- what cool things can we show that will bring you and your money to us?

Mark you make some good points. But this isn't one of them. You speculate on the whole world's reasons for keeping captive animals and I disagree. Both now and then, I think it stems more from fascination, admiration and awe, than the factors you mentioned. I didn't want a turtle at 7 years old to bring in money or have dominion over anything. I wanted it because I though it was really cool and neat. I loved my turtle, cried when he got sick and adored my time in the yard with him watching him explore.

---

Tom: There is no doubt in my mind that all the trainers who work with these majestic animals love what they do, they all love the whales and have somewhat a good idea on their species. Saying that, to work at SeaWorld as a trainer doesn't actually require a college degree in Marine Biology or infact any degree at all. As long as you have a love for the animals, commitment, be a strong swimmer and a good public speaker, you're in with a good shot of working there.
I've worked with animals all my life (including wildlife) and I could apply for a job there. Nobody here is suggesting that the trainers are not dedicated to their jobs, they certainly are or they wouldn't do it, the pay isn't that great!!
But back on topic: Regarding your previous statements on your posts, you simply cannot make the statement that people don't know what they're talking about, just because you don't agree with them.
It is fact that Killer Whales die prematurely in captivity!!
It is fact that they suffer immense stress levels!!
It is now fact that there's nothing more for us to learn about the species using captive whales!! (This kinda blows the guise of education out of the window).
Have your trainer friends told you about the wording and terms they must use when talking to the public?
Here's a couple of examples:

They cannot say whether an animal has been "CAPTURED" from the wild! SW employees says, the animal has been "COLLECTED"!!

If the public asks about the death of an animal, SW employees have to respond with "I DON'T KNOW"!!

The "tricks" the whales perform to the cheers of the public, SW employee would call them "BEHAVIORS"!! (I know, laughable right?") Because a 9000 pound Killer Whale break dancing on a ledge is totally "normal" behavior right?

Here's a good one "POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT"!! Ignoring bad behavior and rewarding good behavior!!
Fact: In the eyes of the animal it's "FOOD DEPRIVATION", if the animal doesn't do what it's told, the whistle doesn't get blown and he doesn't get the fish!! Could this also be perceived as "FORCE"? These animals are NOT dogs!!

Now, lets take a closer look at the top of the line dental care the whales receive... SeaWorld claim their whales receive the best in dental care, what they really mean is: We have to drill our whales teeth with a Dremel tool WITHOUT the use of Anesthetic, down to the pulp because of the severe tooth decay they have due to being in captivity. Also, when the whales are bored or have behavior problems, they munch on the gates, breaking their teeth (there is photographs on The Orca Project website if you would take the time to look). While you're there, you may want to take a look at the lonely life of Tilikum, 20 hours of video footage of him being isolated, infact you may see your trainer friends on it, but don't blink or you'll miss them, as they only spent a total of 7 minutes with him. Didn't you not mention they spend 24/7 with the whales??? That video may just change your opinion on that.

I would also like to add this, written by a former senior seaworld trainer (maybe you know him Tom?) You can find it on the captivity page of Orca Network website.

Jeff Ventre, former senior trainer at SeaWorld in Orlando checks off the signs that captive orcas endure pain and hardship.

1. orca tooth decay and breakage (on steel gates)

2. retinal UV-damage from looking up at the sun (unclear impact)

3. forced social reorganization (wild orcas live in culturally distinct groups that stay together for life) leading to aggression and social strife in captivity

4. increased mortality and morbidity (decreased lifespan)

5. death of 4 humans from captive orcas

6. crippling of John Sillick (crushed), SW San Diego

7. death of Kanduke (1990) from possible mosquito (vector) transmitted viral encephalopathy (only possible from long hours of surface floating)

8. overuse of Tagamet (cimetidine) to decrease ulcers (from stress associated with captivity)

9. overuse of antibiotics leading to opportunistic (fungal) infections

10. collapsed dorsal fins from long hours of surface resting (boredom)

11. degrading and regular manual stimulation of Tilikum to extract sperm

12. the relative social isolation of Tilikum leading to pathological behaviors, including the most recent event

13. exploitation of trainers, who are injured, killed, and grossly underpaid 14. Confinement: Most of the Shamu Stadium pools are not as deep as Tilikum is long

Orcinus orca has suffered much to fulfill the whims of human entertainment. Learning how self-aware and intelligent they are is precisely why their confinement needs to end. Let’s evolve.

---

I think there have been some good points raised on both sides on this issue.

Chad- I really appreciated your comments.

The first time I saw orcas in the wild it was such a humbling experience. I remember thinking that the whales looked so tiny. At first I thought they were all babies. Then I realized that I was used to seeing them in tanks. I wanted to share some photos of a pod of orcas that I saw around Seward, Alaska. I took them from a boat so they are not the best. Obviously the whales did not know they were supposed to pose for pictures!

Great photos!!!!!! This is how we should see them. Thanks for sharing : )

 

[Candy]

Kalina thank you for your post on my thread and giving us all of this new information and new website for people to view if they would like to know the truth about Sea World and the Killer Whales that they keep in captivity. I was very impressed at your information. I can only hope that others read the information given so they can make an educated decision on whether or not they want to support such an entertainment park such as this one. I didn't realize all the other complications of keeping such animals. My 11 year old son and I watched one of the videos last night. It's seems Sea World was not exactly up front on what was happening with the whales the day that the 40 year old trainer was killed. I was actually quite surprised when I watched it.

 

[ChiKat]

Kalina- brilliant post. You are very knowledgable and I learned a lot from your post.

Candy- what video did you watch?

 

[Kalina]

Kalina- brilliant post. You are very knowledgable and I learned a lot from your post.

Candy- what video did you watch?

Thank you so much for your kind words : )
It's nice for people to think outside the box instead of what the corperate business's what you to think.
When I see people write supportive comments regarding the captive industry, it just frustrates me no end that they can't see past the Dolphins smile!
Here's some more information from another perspective, from http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/03/the-cove-star-ric-obarry-on-seaworld-gary-smith/

In the wild, orcas commonly swim up to 100 miles a day and stay with their family pods all their lives. Tilikum was stolen from his mother at two years old in Iceland and sold into slavery, first in Canada, where he killed his first victim, then at SeaWorld in Orlando.

And so for 25 years, Tilikum has been swimming in circles, in a space that is said to be the equivalent of keeping a human being confined in a bathtub. He has lived a lonely, stressful, and mentally debilitating life. It’s no wonder he has snapped and killed three humans.

O’Barry explained the horrors of living in captivity for whales and dolphins.

“Their primary sense is sonar sound. Ours is light. We are visually oriented. But they live in a world of sound.” Small pools cause sensory deprivation, in which dolphins like Tilikum cannot make much use of echolocation living in captivity. Killer whales in captivity often develop pathologies, such as the dorsal fin collapse seen in 60 to 90 percent of captive males.

“Orcas are the most social animal on the planet, even more so than us,” said O’Barry. “Males will stay with their mothers their entire lives. When we capture an animal like Tilikum, we take him away from the two most important things of his life; the world of sound and family. We put them in a concrete box and expect him to stay mentally healthy. It simply doesn’t work.”

That is, it doesn’t work for the animals. It works very well for the corporations who profit from them. There is a lot of money to be made off of the exploitation of dolphins and whales. SeaWorld alone, which owns 20 of the world’s 42 captive orcas, made $1.4 billion in profit last year. It would be impossible to calculate the money taken in by the many amusement parks, sea aquariums, and “swim with dolphin” attractions around the world, all of which enslave and victimize animals.

In addition to ticket sales and merchandising, SeaWorld also makes millions of dollars force-breeding animals and selling their babies to aquariums around the world. Rest assured SeaWorld won’t euthanize nor send Tilikum to a sanctuary, because as a breeder, he’s worth millions of dollars. Tilikum has reportedly sired 17 calves, although some have not survived. Those that did survive become part of the system of exploitation for profit.

Their breeding programs are yet another way for them to capitalize on animals. O’Barry explains that captive-bred animals don’t fare any better at SeaWorld or elsewhere.

“It doesn’t matter if they were born in captivity or captured from the wild; the stress is exactly the same. Their behavior is radically altered, and you can’t keep them mentally healthy. As for research, the dolphins at SeaWorld don’t represent real dolphins any more than Mickey Mouse represents a real mouse.”

SeaWorld’s PR machine claims that SeaWorld supports wildlife conservation, research, education, and has rescued thousands of stranded and sick animals. They don’t mention that since 1986, 22 killer whales have died at SeaWorld, according to the Marine Mammal Inventory Report.

Indeed many people take their children to these parks thinking it’s an eye-opening educational opportunity. O’Barry has a different take, based on his years of experience fighting sea mammal hunting and capture in Japan.

“SeaWorld claims that if we display the dolphins, people will be sensitized to them, and then they’ll be there for the dolphins. But look at Japan to see the smoking gun. The country of Japan is the size of the state of California. There are fifty dolphinariums in Japan, yet the largest slaughter of dolphins in the world is happening in Japan. No one from the dolphinariums, or their 100 million customers a year, are in Taiji trying to stop the dolphin slaughter. There is no connection between dolphin shows and conservation. It’s a big lie.”

The sad lesson Tilikum teaches us is the only interest SeaWorld has in dolphins and whales is profit. Thus the only way they can be stopped is if people like us stop buying tickets. Marine amusement parks are reprehensible enterprises, capturing and breeding animals for entertainment slavery, and these enterprises only survive through our willingness to participate in them. As long as consumers continue to support them, they will continue these despicable practices, practices that put humans at risk.

O’Barry knows the government isn’t going to come to the aid of dolphins and whales. “This is a case of supply and demand, like anything else. We have to go to the consumers, the people buying tickets. The key is to go after the demand side, not the supply side.”

Yet marine parks aren’t the only culprits here. All enterprises that use animals are unethical. There is absolutely no difference between marine parks, zoos, horse tracks, dog fighting rings, circuses and any other animal enterprise, all of which exploit animals for profit.

Animals all desire to be free, to be with their families and to fulfill their natural purpose. When we rip them away from their homes and their purpose, we not only cause them suffering and pain, but we cause ourselves suffering and pain as well. There are simply no good ethical reasons to use animals for entertainment, scientific research, clothing, or food. These enterprises only survive by our willingness to participate in their evil or by doing nothing.

“Whether we are going out to capture slaves, or we’re breeding them on the plantation, it is still unethical,” said O’Barry.

Here is some links for those who are interested in learning more on this issue:

http://theorcaproject.wordpress.com/

http://orcanetwork.org/

My personal favorite http://miamiseaprison.com/

http://www.orcahome.de/incidents.htm

http://www.slavetoentertainment.com/help-lolita.htm

http://www.savelolita.com/

http://www.hsi.org/search/search.jsp?query=marine+mammals

 

[terryo]

Wow! What a wonderful post, Kalina. And welcome to the forum.

 

[Tom]

Kalina, both your posts are a bunch of slanted animal rightist propaganda. You are preaching to your choir and I've already demonstrated how to spin info in the way someone wants it spun. I don't deny that captive animals experience problems. Just look at how many health issues and deaths we have here on the tortoise forum. What I'm saying is that the benefit outweighs the cost. You and your friends clearly don't agree. No amount of typed words will change either of our minds. It is a difference of opinion, nothing more.

Further, you chose a very poor way to join a forum dedicated to the care and well-being of captive wild animals. When you have some tortoise info to share, then I'll happily welcome you to the forum.

 

[Isa]

Kalina, Welcome to the forum and THANK YOU for your posts. They are amazing and full of infos. Thanks for sharing it with us

 

[dmmj]

so where do we draw the line? so more sea world? no more zoos? no more pets?

 

[DeanS]

My thoughts for years have circled around supplying zoos and aquariums with captive born specimens...don't pillage the wilds anymore. There are enough animals in captivity to populate the world's zoos over and over. My biggest problems have always been the propagation of orcas and elephants. Right now, every African elephant born in a zoo is the product of one bull...Bulwagi, of Disney's Animal Kingdom. What's gonna happen down the road, say 20 years, when the SSPs fall apart! Are we going to continue to go to Africa to select elephants that have been targeted for culling? How long can that last? I haven't kept up with the plight of the orca (as I did throughout the 80s)...so I can't really delve much into that. But, I think of the Aquarium of the Pacific...no orcas...no belugas...no pilot whales and I consider it far more enjoyable to frequent them than Sea World...which has become NOTHING more than an amusement park (with animals).