Wooden Tortoise Enclosure

[Harry 2009]

Hi guys,

We are new to the forums so hello!

We own a 2 year old Horsfield tortoise who has seemed a little low recently. We are wondering on how we can improve his living conditions and would like some input.

We have recently built him a 6ft by 3ft wooden enclosure with a large UVB bulb, and 100W heat lamp. The fittings are somewhat botched together (proper ones coming soon). The substrate is a 3 to 1 mix of top soil and play sand, and we feed him on a diet of mostly pak choy, kale, romaine lettuce, chicory, the odd avocado half, runner beans, and dark salad leaves. We also give him vitamins with his food with every second feeding.

We are a little worried about the temperature however. During the day, the only heat he gets is from his heat lamp. The house can get a little cold, but as soon as we come home from work we put the gas fire on for the rest of the evening. Is there anything else we can do to keep him warm during the day and could this be affecting his behaviour? Or any improvements to his enclosure or diet we can make?

Your help will be greatly appreciated. I have attached a (not very clear) photo of his enclosure.

Also, please mention anything that you like about the enclosure

Josh

 

[LindaF]

Welcome to the forum. He looks cold, maybe add a CHE for extra heat.

 

[coreyc]

Welcome to the TFO What's the temp ?

 

[Sweetness_bug]

Very Nice I like the enclosure...love the little hid a log.

 

[Harry 2009]

Thank you for the replies

@LindaF - We reckon it is a lack of heat, it is quite a big enclosure so its hard to maintain a decent ambient temperature. A CHE may very well solve our problems. Would a 150W do? And where do you think it should be placed?

@coreyc - The temperature in the room he is kept in does not fall below 60F during the day, at night it may get a little colder.

@Sweetness_bug - thanks He only goes in there a few times, mostly he stays near the basking lamp, unless there is food present, at which point he charges towards it!

 

[tortoises101]

Thank you for the replies

@LindaF - We reckon it is a lack of heat, it is quite a big enclosure so its hard to maintain a decent ambient temperature. A CHE may very well solve our problems. Would a 150W do? And where do you think it should be placed?

@coreyc - The temperature in the room he is kept in does not fall below 60F during the day, at night it may get a little colder.

@Sweetness_bug - thanks He only goes in there a few times, mostly he stays near the basking lamp, unless there is food present, at which point he charges towards it!

I think a 150w CHE would suffice. I think you should place it on the cool side to raise it to about 77F. Russians are cold tolerant, but anything below 60F at night you might wanna keep the CHE on at night or invest in a black bulb (100w will do).

 

[coreyc]

Thank you for the replies

@LindaF - We reckon it is a lack of heat, it is quite a big enclosure so its hard to maintain a decent ambient temperature. A CHE may very well solve our problems. Would a 150W do? And where do you think it should be placed?

@coreyc - The temperature in the room he is kept in does not fall below 60F during the day, at night it may get a little colder.

@Sweetness_bug - thanks He only goes in there a few times, mostly he stays near the basking lamp, unless there is food present, at which point he charges towards it!

150 watt should work can you take some pic's from a different angle?what is that in the lower right? is it a hide?

 

[Harry 2009]

I think a 150w CHE would suffice. I think you should place it on the cool side to raise it to about 77F. Russians are cold tolerant, but anything below 60F at night you might wanna keep the CHE on at night or invest in a black bulb (100w will do).

Do you think a reflective fitting would be best for a CHE? Or a wire fitting such as the Exo Terra wire light clamp (http://www.netpetshop.co.uk/p-21203...reptile-40-150w-small.aspx?CAWELAID=437275725)

---

@coreyc - It is a hide yes, it has a removable lid and we use coconut bedding

 

[coreyc]

I think a 150w CHE would suffice. I think you should place it on the cool side to raise it to about 77F. Russians are cold tolerant, but anything below 60F at night you might wanna keep the CHE on at night or invest in a black bulb (100w will do).

Do you think a reflective fitting would be best for a CHE? Or a wire fitting such as the Exo Terra wire light clamp (http://www.netpetshop.co.uk/p-21203...reptile-40-150w-small.aspx?CAWELAID=437275725)

I use a reflective fitting I dont like the wire ones

 

[Harry 2009]

Here are 2 more images of his enclosure. The second one is the inside of his hide (with Harry sleeping).

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Josh:

Your habitat is nice and big...allows for lots of wandering, which Russian tortoises love to do.

If you are having trouble keeping the whole thing warm, you can cover part or all of it. I use aluminum foil because its easy and the hot lights don't hurt it. Doesn't look all that great, but works fine.

Where are you from?

 

[tortoises101]

I think a 150w CHE would suffice. I think you should place it on the cool side to raise it to about 77F. Russians are cold tolerant, but anything below 60F at night you might wanna keep the CHE on at night or invest in a black bulb (100w will do).

Do you think a reflective fitting would be best for a CHE? Or a wire fitting such as the Exo Terra wire light clamp (http://www.netpetshop.co.uk/p-21203...reptile-40-150w-small.aspx?CAWELAID=437275725)

I use a reflective fitting I dont like the wire ones

Yeah, I feel that the wires are less convenient and the clamp is easier to take off and put on.

 

[68merc]

Put a big flat rock under the warming light. It will help to radiate the heat.

 

[Harry 2009]

@emysemys - We like the size of it, but we feel that the reason the heat isnt being properly regulated is due to the size of it. We would need maybe 3 or 4 to keep the whole enclosure warm. We think reducing the enclosure by a third would be the best course of action. That way he still has plenty of room and would be warmer. Then we will have a CHE in the centre/towards the far end, a basking bulb in another corner, and the UVB.

We are based in Birmingham, UK.

@68merc - thats a great idea! We will definitely do that!

 

[jwhite]

Hi Josh,

Like the enclosure it's a good size. I also have a big enclosure for my Russians. It's 6' x 8' I have 3 basking lights in it. I also found that the ambient heat was staying low so I put a space heater in the room and that seems to do it for me. I don't know ifr that is an option for you, but with an enclosure the size that you have it may be the easiest way to raise the ambient temp. all across the enclosure.

Jon

 

[Harry 2009]

Hi everyone and Happy New Year!

So, after all of the feedback and comments we have had, and also after going through the pages and pages of amazing ideas for enclosures on this forum, we went out and bought a 150W CHE, some reflective fittings and lots of rocks. After only a few minutes, the temperature at the basking end is 90F-100F, and the lower temp is about 70F. We also replaced the huge box hide with a more natural looking one made from rocks and the wooden hide (which Harry now loves to climb on).

Already Harry is much happier. Every morning he gets up and basks, then goes exploring in the rest of the enclosure. He looks healthier, and just seems a lot more active. It is like rediscovering him again!

We have attached some photos for you to have a look at. Again, feedback and comments are appreciated.

In the future we are planning on getting another CHE (maybe 60-100w) for the other end, and we hope to introduce another russian seeing as the enclosure is so big. Does anyone see any problems in introducing another male Russian? And how would you go about it?

Again, thanks for all your help

Josh, Amy & Harry

 

[coreyc]

Look's good Great to hear Harry is enjoying his new home

 

[tortoisenerd]

"...we feed him on a diet of mostly pak choy, kale, romaine lettuce, chicory, the odd avocado half, runner beans, and dark salad leaves. We also give him vitamins with his food with every second feeding."

Ditch the pak choy (starchy) & avocado (VERY BAD; too fatty and I've heard even toxic) & beans (starchy & have protein); limit the kale (goiterin, but good in a varied diet); introduce a larger variety greens & weeds. I like to feed a 60% spring mix and 40% greens mix, picking the spinach & red chard out of the spring mix (high in oxaliac acid), and buying 1-2 types of greens a week (like chicory, dandelion, kale, collards, mustard, radish, turnip, watercress, etc), rotating through a list. The lettuces are low in oxaliac acid and most of the greens are higher, but you can strike a nice balance (since some of us like me don't like to feed too many greens high in oxalic acid as it binds to calcium and can cause stones).

For a two year old tort, I'd do pure calcium powder (no D3) over the food every 2-3 days. Ditch any pure vitamins as you can overdose the tort on them (especially fat soluble ones like D vitamins). If you wish, you can get a natural powder called Total Nutrition for Tortoises from calorinapetsupply.com which you can use as much as you want, since its just ground up weeds & flowers & yummies. With a varied diet, calcium is all you really need though. In the wild these torts have a very low nutrient diet. On top oft he 60-40, I do maybe 5% of the diet as treats, such as edible organic flowers, squashes like butternut, pumpkin, and any good commercial tort food like Mazuri or Grassland.

I'd get a good thermometer like a temp gun and test how much of the enclosure gradient is in the 80s, where torts spend much of their time. They will only go into the 70s to cool off, so you don't want most of your enclosure that cold. Also make sure you have hides in each temp zone (fake or safe real organic plants, timothy hay pile, container, half log, etc).

Can you post some backside and tail photos so we can have some members confirm male? What is his shell length? If he's anything like my 2.5 year old male tort, he's probably about getting to the size you can more accurately confirm sex (my male tort's tail didn't start growing until after age 2, just over 4 inches in shell length, but this varies a lot). Two males may do ok...but not a male and female. Depends on the torts though. Make sure you have the means to do two enclosures if necessary. Its usually better to introduce the two in a new enclosure, not bring the new one into the old one's enclosure, but if you do it sooner than later, and with a big enclosure, it may be ok. Do some reading and don't jump into anything...torts are happy alone, so only get a second one if that is what you want, not what you think your tort wants or needs (another one will NOT perk him up, and may even cause more problems).

My tort is getting an enclosure that size today! Sorry I couldn't resist I'm so excited we've been waiting for awhile. For that size enclosure I'm planning one 100 Watt MVB, one 75-100 Watt light bulb, and maybe up to 3 60 Watt CHEs...kinda doubling what I need in my 8 sq ft enclosure plus a bit more flexible heat as mine is a bit borderline now (I have a 100 Watt MVB + 1 60 Watt CHE now). We love shredded aspen bedding at our house.

 

[ChiKat]

My tort is getting an enclosure that size today! Sorry I couldn't resist I'm so excited we've been waiting for awhile. For that size enclosure I'm planning one 100 Watt MVB, one 75-100 Watt light bulb, and maybe up to 3 60 Watt CHEs...kinda doubling what I need in my 8 sq ft enclosure plus a bit more flexible heat as mine is a bit borderline now (I have a 100 Watt MVB + 1 60 Watt CHE now).

I can't wait to see pictures!! Hurry and set everything up!
I've been excited since I first heard of your plans of creating this Tortoise Palace!

 

[Harry 2009]

Hi Kate, thank you for the very detailed reply Greens are a little hard to come by where we live, I will be heading to the farmers market first thing Saturday morning to see if I can pick some up. We have planted some dandelion and timothy grass in the pots you can see in the pictures so we hope to get something out of them soon.

Do you know of anything like that TNT powder that is sold in the UK? I have tried to obtain it from that website but to no avail. I have contacted the website.

I believe that 'Spring Mix' in the US is 'Rocket Salad' here in Britain (so we have been told) so we will switch to that this week. As for the heat, the gradient is pretty steady going from 95/100F to 70F at the cooler end. At night, we place the CHE near to where he settles to keep him at around 80F. Maybe a few more hides and interesting places are in order then.

As for his sex, we already know he is a boy; he decided to 'show' us one evening while giving him a bath...and his tail is pretty thick. He is just under 300 grams, and is 10cm (4 inches) in shell length. I believe this is fairly healthy.

Congratulations on the new enclosure, we will look forward to seeing pictures too! We are going to invest in maybe one or two more, lower powered CHE's at a later date/next pay day.

Thanks for the comments