Devastated lady

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This was my baby Horsefield/Russian tortoise Pepé ❤️

I got him at the end of July in 2023 when we were told he was about 12 months old. He was absolutely fine from then until the start of December when he seemed to want to sleep more and eat less. I tried him with different foods and made sure that his enclosure was getting enough heat by measuring with two different thermometers and also putting him to bed at night with his section with a heat mat. His temperatures never dropped to less than what they should be as a friend told me about not letting him go into hibernation (he is too young).

When he first started getting this way around 8th December, I took him to the shop I bought him from as they said to bring him in and to to be fair we’re extremely helpful with advice etc. They said he looked fine physically and showed no signs of respiratory infection or dehydration etc.

Took little Pepé home and he carried on the same but started to eat less. I was putting him in the bath everyday too and noticed some little bubbles by his bottom so thought he had taken water in that way at least.

The last time I think he ate anything was a minimal amount on the 15th December and then he just stopped. I rang the shop again and was told it was ok and that Pepé could go without food but for a couple of weeks as long as he was getting daily baths.

At the two week mark I took hun back to the shop because I was so worried. I was then told to leave him with them by a very kind lady who works there and that they would put him in reptoboost and could force water down him if required. I knew I couldn’t do this so sadly said goodbye to my little Pepé.

Over the next week the shop rang me and said he had started to eat little bits (great I thought!) but that he wasn’t making as much progress as he should be. After a full week of being there, the lady said she had put him in the critical care solution and the vet who comes in had looked at him but still couldn’t see anything wrong like a respiratory infection but that he hadn’t pooped so they couldn’t test that. The next day after she forced water down him he just died 😔

I keep blaming myself… did I do something wrong and kill my little baby? Should I have done things differently?

I just really need some answers now. If anyone could shed any light or share their opinions I would be so grateful. I’ve attached photos of Pepé and his enclosure etc. you can’t see his heat mat as that’s inside the dark section on the left hand side. His enclosure also has silver heat mats that we stuck to the outside Perspex parts to keep the heat in but you can’t see those here.

Many thanks
Lauren
 

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Devastated lady

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The picture of him outside with the bell peppers was when I was trying to tempt him with different things. I only tried the foods on the care sheet given by the shop so I’m sure it wasn’t his diet. I can’t think of anything else relevant. His poops and wees were always cleaned out of his enclosure too
 

wellington

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The substrate is wrong. Having a baby on a heat mat is wrong. Babies need closed chamber enclosure with 80% humidity. Basking temp with an incandescent flood bulb that reaches 95-100. A tube florescent for uvb and ceramic heat emitter for any needed extra day and night heat
But what likely killed him was the shop owner forcing water down him. Besides its usually never needed, to force water, if it's done wrong, it's going to kill them.
As much as they tried to help you, they really don't seem to have a clue. I wouldn't follow their suggestions or help again.
 

Maggie3fan

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I know you are trying to know what YOU did wrong. You didn't do anything wrong. The shop owners were the wrong doers. That baby was doomed from the start. Please don't go to their shop again...find another and try it again if you want, but make a closed chamber and don't put the lights against the wire top...none of the uvb can go thru the screen. I am sorry for you loss and how confusing it can be.
 

zovick

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The picture of him outside with the bell peppers was when I was trying to tempt him with different things. I only tried the foods on the care sheet given by the shop so I’m sure it wasn’t his diet. I can’t think of anything else relevant. His poops and wees were always cleaned out of his enclosure too
"Forcing" water down the tortoise's throat is ill-advised, IMHO. It could very easily have gone into the trachea instead of the esophagus and in effect, drowned the animal. I find it especially suspicious that the animal died the day after that was done.

Of course, it is unlikely that the person would admit that the animal had a problem when it was done. If you have a necropsy done by a good vet, the cause of death might be discovered. I would bet it is water in the lungs.
 

zolasmum

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I am so very very sorry - please don't feel that this was your fault in any way. It is a shame you didn't have this forum to help you - but it will be here to advise and support you if you decide to get another tortoise - and I do hope you will, as they are wonderful little creatures.
People are often posting stories about being given very bad advice by pet shops - and ,of course, they assume that the pet shop people are knowledgeable, when in fact they generally haven't a clue.
Please throw away any care sheets the shop gave you, and follow only the information given here.
Very best wishes from Angie (from Devon)
 

Devastated lady

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"Forcing" water down the tortoise's throat is ill-advised, IMHO. It could very easily have gone into the trachea instead of the esophagus and in effect, drowned the animal. I find it especially suspicious that the animal died the day after that was done.

Of course, it is unlikely that the person would admit that the animal had a problem when it was done. If you have a necropsy done by a good vet, the cause of death might be discovered. I would bet it is water in the lungs.
My partner and I were just talking about it and we suspect this is what killed little Pepé too. We are so angry about it. He was stable until they did this. We should have gone and got him and we didn’t and now we’ll have to live with it forever
 

Devastated lady

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I am so very very sorry - please don't feel that this was your fault in any way. It is a shame you didn't have this forum to help you - but it will be here to advise and support you if you decide to get another tortoise - and I do hope you will, as they are wonderful little creatures.
People are often posting stories about being given very bad advice by pet shops - and ,of course, they assume that the pet shop people are knowledgeable, when in fact they generally haven't a clue.
Please throw away any care sheets the shop gave you, and follow only the information given here.
Very best wishes from Angie (from Devon)
Thank you for your kind words Angie
 

zovick

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My partner and I were just talking about it and we suspect this is what killed little Pepé too. We are so angry about it. He was stable until they did this. We should have gone and got him and we didn’t and now we’ll have to live with it forever
Very sorry this happened to you and your poor tortoise.

Your photos do show several conditions in your habitat and husbandry techniques which could be made more satisfactory and afford a tortoise a better and more healthy environment. If you read up on all the advice threads available here on the TFO you can better prepare yourself for starting over again with a new tortoise (assuming you wished to do so).

Good luck should you decide to try again.
 

zolasmum

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I'm just writing again to say that if you decide to get another tortoise - and I hope you will, please get in touch with this forum before you get one, to discuss what you need to have in your set-up before it arrives, and to make sure you have the correct food available. There are experts here who can help with all this.
Also, if you decide to get one, it would be a good idea to find out where you can get a properly cared for baby. Then at least you can be confident that all is well from the start.
Best wishes from Angie
 

Devastated lady

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I'm just writing again to say that if you decide to get another tortoise - and I hope you will, please get in touch with this forum before you get one, to discuss what you need to have in your set-up before it arrives, and to make sure you have the correct food available. There are experts here who can help with all this.
Also, if you decide to get one, it would be a good idea to find out where you can get a properly cared for baby. Then at least you can be confident that all is well from the start.
Best wishes from Angie
Thanks Angie but after all of this devastation and days of crying, I think we will lay Pepé to rest and that will be it for us as tortoise owners. Pepé feels irreplaceable to us as well
 
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