What Went Wrong?

[Tom]

Yes of course! Okay so he was Easter Hermanns tortoise. The main book I used was the Hermann’s Tortoise by Ben Team. I built his indoor enclosure out of a garden table… it was 4 feet long and 2 feet wide and I had a substrate depth of 6 inches with 10 inches above him. I used a ceramic heater on one side where the temps stayed about 95/98 degrees. I left this on all day and night. He liked to bask there and at night would burrows underneath it. The other side of the enclosure was around 70 degrees. He had a hide on the side of the heater. The substrate I used was eco earth which I bought in blocks on amazon and repti chip. He always had a shallow dish with water. I had a light spanning most of the enclosure which was from Arcadia and was for dessert animals. The strength it said in the book. Clive also had access to real sunlight. I fed him on a slate which I washed everyday. I would get him dandelion greens from Whole Foods, collard greens and wheat grass also a little kale sometimes. I would sometimes sprinkle dried hibiscus on his food. Also few days a week I would give him the mazurka tortoise chow food… a few pellets that I wet. I soaked him once a week or like every 10 days which water I would make sure the temp matched what I read… and he would like to sit there if he went to the bathroom I would have another small plastic tub I would put him in. Every day I would wash the water bowl and slate, pick up and poo and also mist his whole enclosure. Almost every day I would take him out and let him explore in the sunroom which was always around 75 degrees, natural sunlight and also places to hide. He would be there for like 30 min/ 1hour. I changed his substrate every month… I tried a few different ones this combo had the least fruit flies. I hope this is helpful. Oh also I had a cuddle bone for him but he never really cared about it.

My observations:
1. Most tortoise care info given in the world is all wrong. Its been wrong for decades and continually passed from generation to generation. Get your care info here.
2. There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

3. Looks like you had no basking lamp. CHEs are for ambient temp maintenance, not basking.
4. Do you have a Solarmeter 6.5? That is what you need to set the UV tube at the correct height. The Arcadia bulb you bought is the best, but it must be set at the correct height, and only a UV meter can tell you that. It also only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day.
5. A 6 inch Testudo needs at least 4x8 feet. 2x4 is only suitable for a tiny baby.
6. They should never be loose on the floor. It can't be made safe, and something always happens to get them impacted, sick, or dead. Everyone thinks it is safe, right up until they realize they were wrong, and then it is too late.
7. Your substrate was fine. The bugs are not fruit flies. They are phorid flies and they come from the surrounding environment to colonize your warm damp substrate. They are harmless detrivores and work to keep your substrate cleaner and more sanitary. I ignore them. Coco coir works best for babies, and the orchid bark works best for adults.
8. The food you offered was pretty good, but more variety is needed. Refer to the care sheet Lyn linked for more ideas.
9. Babies should be soaked for 30-40 minutes daily. Adults are fine with once or twice a week.
10. Closed chambers work better for babies, and open table are fine for adults as long as the table is large enough.

My best guess about what went wrong was that you got a bad one from the pet shop, or that yours ingested something on the floor. An x ray might help to confirm or deny number two. Read that care sheet from Lyn before you get your next one. Questions are welcome.

 

[Toombsk16]

Hello. After a ton of research, creating a large enclosure and making sure I did “everything right” I purchased a male Hermann’s tortoise from a local reptile shop. I knew he most likely wasn’t captive bred but I was really worried that buying one online wouldn’t be legit. My tortoise name was Clive and I loved him. He was such a joy in my life!! The family enjoyed watching him walk around our sunroom for some exercise, boop his nose on our fingers and eat dandelions. Sadly a few days ago I found him dead after only 4 months. Temp, food, lighting, substrate, soaking… all was done by following books, the reptile shop owner advice and online. It was shocking thinking you’re going to have a pet for years and he only live for months. I was told he was around 4 years old but he was 6 inches long so maybe that was incorrect? He loved to burrow but I did notice him burrowing more in the last few weeks. Anyways still heartbroken over here… took me 40 years to realize how awesome tortoises are and then he passed. Any thoughts? Also I would really appreciate reputable names where I could purchase a captive bred tortoise.

I’m so sorry for your loss. I’m glad to hear that the unfortunate loss of Clive has not discouraged you from choosing to have a tortoise as a member of your family. I very much agree that books a can provide general guidelines, however many were written years ago and have just been rereleased with updated pictures but not a lot of content changes. Keeping tortoises as family members/pets are a relatively new thing when compared to many other pets which have been kept for generations. They have only been a widespread pet for the past 30 years or so. With that in mind & considering they live to be much older than that, I feel that there is not a lot of accurate information in books that cover the lifespan and long term care of these incredible animals. We have found a lot of great information on this forum about we use as a guide to keeping our young (9 Month Sulcata) tortoise.


I would add that using all the information you encounter as a general guide, but also use your personal interaction and observation of your tortoise as a factor as well.

A couple things I would suggest is getting a handheld laser temperature gauge to see what the temperature is at the substrate level where your tortoise is living. We also have a home weather station with a sensor in Obi’s house (I don’t like the term cage e cause these are very interactive animals and absolutely come to know and enjoy time out of their house with their owners”)

Open top houses are difficult to maintain humidity. About 60% for older Hermanns and about 85% for hatchlings/babiesfor babies. I would highly recommend a humidifier to keep the level regulated at all times. We are also not big fans of Tortoise Tables. We have found “New Age Ecoflex” enclosures to be fantastic. They are made from a composite strong plastic material that is very strong, durable and will not rot. They have a screen top that can be covered to maintain the needed heat and humidity as they grow there airy also vents in the side for good ventilation and very nice glass sliding glass front that allows for viewing.

I think you are right on track with the T-5 lighting. A 10.0 UVB Bulb should be used in my opinion for this species.

Other than that, I would recommend daily soaks while young. (At least for the first year. Our Sulcata honestly enjoyed watching Elmo on the ipad while taking his daily soak. They are very visual and stimulated by sights and sounds. Other people will argue this, however this in our experience is something Obi’ honestly enjoys. He takes care of his potty businesses during his soaks and doesn’t go in his cage which helps with the cleanup.

I think you are very wise to go through a breeder. Pet shops have very little to no knowledge of most any animals they sell. Especially exotic pets such as tortoises.

Don’t forget the calcium supplements to help he/she grow strong bones and she’ll.

All of the above will eliminate the chances of Doming on their shell. (I’m sure you have seen sad examples of this.

Again condolences for your loss, but I do agree with other postings saying he may have been I’ll when you got him and just couldn’t recover. It does sound like you did anything wrong.

Enjoy your new baby & try not to worry about every little thing too much. If you follow good practice, I’m sure you will be very successful and have a lifelong friend.

 

[TortoisesFLA]

Hello. After a ton of research, creating a large enclosure and making sure I did “everything right” I purchased a male Hermann’s tortoise from a local reptile shop. I knew he most likely wasn’t captive bred but I was really worried that buying one online wouldn’t be legit. My tortoise name was Clive and I loved him. He was such a joy in my life!! The family enjoyed watching him walk around our sunroom for some exercise, boop his nose on our fingers and eat dandelions. Sadly a few days ago I found him dead after only 4 months. Temp, food, lighting, substrate, soaking… all was done by following books, the reptile shop owner advice and online. It was shocking thinking you’re going to have a pet for years and he only live for months. I was told he was around 4 years old but he was 6 inches long so maybe that was incorrect? He loved to burrow but I did notice him burrowing more in the last few weeks. Anyways still heartbroken over here… took me 40 years to realize how awesome tortoises are and then he passed. Any thoughts? Also I would really appreciate reputable names where I could purchase a captive bred tortoise.

I'm so sorry for your heartbreak.