What race is my REALLY REALLY old Redfoot ?

[onarock]

what a great thread. Jeff talking about his crabby old tort. Others talking about females laying untill they... and I quote, "croak" and the Dunkan Island tort that apparently is a "nut job". too funny!

 

[Geochelone_Carbonaria]

Mike ..... could you wet the head and get a close up shot of the head above the nose?...

JD~

Yes I could, but not from here, since I'm at work at the moment. But I think you can get the same result from this very high resolution close up ?

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I am for sure not a redfoot expert, maybe aldabra. I could not identify the sub species like some of these true experts, however that tortoise is aged and looks great!

Thanks ALDABRAMAN ! The "personality" it has is really amazing. When I keep them in the outdoor enclosure and approach the "fence", this one immediatly looks at you and start walking towards you. It behaves like no other tort I've ever seen or met...

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That animal is very typical of the Colombian red-foots imported during the 1960's thru the mid 1970's. It was not unusual to see individuals with no color other than yellow on them. Several of my breeders that I obtained in the mid 70's possessed only shades of yellow. Some were kind of buttermilk colored but they had NO RED at all.
This hatchling is from a pair that was part of the group I was working with...

The pair of Colombian red-foots that produced this hatchling a few years back have been in captivity since 1967. Like Kyryah said, tortoises are often fertile right up until they croak.
The aggressive behavior of some captive tortoises may be a result of the unnatural captive environment they are in or is just simply aberrant behavior. I doubt age has anything to do with it.
But then again, the famous old male Duncan Island tortoise named Onan became a real nutjob as he got older. He kept humping boulders too so, there you go...

Really interesting reading !

Thanks a lot for that information.

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I agree with Jeff (jackrat) on the location the tortoise originated from. I would say that your tortoise is a male. The picture of the dorsal view of the carapace has no "waist line," which is a female trait. I know some cherry-head males lack the waist line, like the Northers have. When I look at the ventral shot (plastron,) I do see some concavity and also the marginal scute on the carapace that covers the tail is very large, also suggesting male. The tail, however, is very small. Typically a male's tail will reach to the back of the legs, but I don't see that occurring in your tortoise. I still think your tortoise is a male. I have a female that reminds me a lot of your red-foot. She has the same yellow head and scalation on her forelimbs.

I was told that this gal is in her 30s.

-Matt

Interesting, that's almost exactly what my mentor said about this tort, whom I actually got it from. And it's really nice to see another one that is a bit similar too.

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There is some research that states that at least some female Red-foots can show very masculine characteristics (GUIX, Juan Carlos, Fedullo, Daniel L., Molina, Flavio B. "Masculinization of captive females of Chelonoidis carbonaria (Testudinidae)" Rev. Esp. Herp. #15, 2001.), and there are several reasons a male tort would loose interest in sex with age, even though that is not normal- although most of them are related to medical issues.

I also apologize again if my earlier questions about the old guy bothered you- they were driven by simple curiosity.

As far as race, 'Northeastern South America' seems safe enough. There do not seem to be good, universal, and consistent variations between the localities within that range.

Thanks a lot Matt.

That's ok, let's start all over and take it from here then?

'Northeastern South America' together with all the other interesting information that you guys have given in this thread is more than enough.

Maybe an x-ray of it would give the information about its sex then ?

 

[Kristina]

There is some research that states that at least some female Red-foots can show very masculine characteristics

I have an adult female Redfoot that many would mistake as being male, so I can 100% verify that statement.

 

[jackrat]

That's ok, let's start all over and take it from here then?

'Northeastern South America' together with all the other interesting information that you guys have given in this thread is more than enough.

I would say he is Northwestern,possibly Colombian.

 

[Madkins007]

Jackrat- why Northwest? I'm wondering because the sources I have used suggest that tortoises from the Northwest areas tend to have paler, browner, or coffee-colored carapaces instead of black. I know you've seen these guys in the wild, and I am always interested in adding more data points.

 

[Yvonne G]

what a great thread. Jeff talking about his crabby old tort. Others talking about females laying untill they... and I quote, "croak" and the Dunkan Island tort that apparently is a "nut job". too funny!

We here on the forum, are nothing, if not scientific!

 

[jackrat]

Jackrat- why Northwest? I'm wondering because the sources I have used suggest that tortoises from the Northwest areas tend to have paler, browner, or coffee-colored carapaces instead of black. I know you've seen these guys in the wild, and I am always interested in adding more data points.

LOL I'm just calling the Colombia area the Northwest,as opposed to the Guyana or more Eastern locales.I'm going more by the yellow coloration versus the more orange of the Guyana area.I might be way off base ,Mark.Just going with my gut feeling,based on what I've seen.

 

[travisc]

why are the scales on the feet yellow?

 

[Balboa]

why are the scales on the feet yellow?

Why are roses red?

Not all redfoot tortoises have red feet, some are more orange, others more yellow, its just their natural variability. I imagine these days many of the yellow ones are "thrown back" or more likely into the soup pot, as american consumers will expect red.

 

[onarock]

Balboa, their not all red
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEv-aXRpGVg

why are the scales on the feet yellow?

Why are roses red?

Not all redfoot tortoises have red feet, some are more orange, others more yellow, its just their natural variability. I imagine these days many of the yellow ones are "thrown back" or more likely into the soup pot, as american consumers will expect red.

 

[Geochelone_Carbonaria]

There is some research that states that at least some female Red-foots can show very masculine characteristics

I have an adult female Redfoot that many would mistake as being male, so I can 100% verify that statement.

And so has one of my friends. Every "expert" here on RF's is sure that it's a male Cherryhead when they see it, but it has actually laid more than 300 eggs !

 

[HLogic]

I would venture to say it is a Colombian from the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta region or possibly, but not likely, a Panamanian or Barbados. Those are the only locales from which I know pure yellows originate (the Barbados population may have come from Colombia). That color variation may have been more widespread 40 years ago but my understanding is they have a rather limited range now. If it was imported many years ago, it is likely as Carl states, one of those not-so-uncommon yellow RF's.

As many RF's as Colombia exported back then, it doesn't surprise me they are all over the world.

You can see pics of verifiable Santa Marta Colombians here:
Santa Marta
Yellow RF Plastron

Note: You may have to scroll up a little or refresh/reload once the page loads to see the links.