What am I doing wrong ?

[Qads]

Hi

Im a new member here, I just came across across this forum and I hope to learn from the experts here !

First off, Ill tell you a little story about my first (small) tortoise. I had him many years ago and heres how I took care of him: I put him in a cardboard box that i cut off, I put some little rocks inside like the ones in a fish bowl and a big rock for his 'nails' so he can cut them as he climbs it. I only fed him lettuce and only put him in water once a month. Now that I know better, I realize that this doesnt sound good but I was a teen and this was what the pet store advised me to do. Anyway, some days I took his box outside for some sun. He stayed with me for around 5 years and I never noticed any problems with him. I left him in the care of my friend for a couple of weeks as I had to travel and he died in her care. Im still so sad and bitter about it, I loved my tortoise very very much.


And now for the present,
So, I bought a couple of Russian torts around 2 years ago. I set them up in a nice habitat. I put some of those wood pieces for their base, added some rocks which they sometimes rest their tiny head on and a little 'cave' that they love hiding in. I recently bought a 50W UVB light and clipped it to their enclosure. I put them in water about once a week and I feed them a variety of veggies: Arugula, carrots, lettuce, cucumber, and whatever mixed leaves I find at the supermarket. On very rare occasion i put one small raspberry or a small strawberry or apple.

Now to my problem.
My torts seems to be sick. A while ago I noticed that one had a runny nose and he made a squeeking noise but I forgot about it because it seemed to have went by its own. Recently I noticed it came back and this time both seem to have it. They both try to scratch their little nose and I help them to wipe it off whenever I can. One of them looks smaller than the other eventhough they were the same size when I got them, and his shell from the botyom is softer than his friend. One of them makes a wierd sound, like a cough or a sneeze. Can someone please help me on whats going on ??

We didnt have a good vet here for torts so I had to look up answers online and most recommended that I get a UV light and a heating light (which i did) and they recommended i get them vitamins. I bought them a tort vitamin pellets but they don't like it so i have to dampen it and almost force feed them myself.
I finally found a good vet and I scheduled an appointment for tmw so I will update you on what happens but I need your advice ? What am I doing wrong ? My heart is breaking I really love them and I hate to see them like this.

Note:
I dont know how old they are or what their gender is, also I havent named them because ive never actually named my pets.

Also,
Is my habitat set up right ? They love this cave but sometimes they climb it and fall upside down and I dont know how long they stay like that before I find them and flip them back. They really love that cave and they dont flip often maybe once every 3 weeks, should I keep it or what ?

 

[TechnoCheese]

Welcome to the forum!

I’m going to be a bit blunt here, but the short answer to your question? Everything.

That is no Russian tortoise you have there. I believe that it is a Greek, but you should wait for a second opinion. Your tortoises should never be kept in pairs, and they need to be separated immediately.
In the meantime, take a look at this care sheet. It says it’s for Russians, but it covers other teststudos too.
Russian Tortoise Care Sheet
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Russian-Tortoise-Care-Sheet.80698/
Your tortoise needs a minimum enclosure size of 4x8 feet. The one they’re in is way too small for one tortoise, let alone two.
That substrate needs to go. Your tortoise needs a substrate that can hold humidity well, like coco coir or orchid bark.
How often do you soak?
What are your enclosure temps?
You need to put in a water bowl and a food bowl.
Your diet needs immediate change.

Your tortoises likely have a respiratory infection because they are too cold.
Please read the care sheet and come back with more questions.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Please also give this a read-
Beginner Mistakes
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Beginner-Mistakes.45180/

 

[Qads]

Welcome to the forum!

I’m going to be a bit blunt here, but the short answer to your question? Everything.

That is no Russian tortoise you have there. I believe that it is a Greek, but you should wait for a second opinion. Your tortoises should never be kept in pairs, and they need to be separated immediately.
In the meantime, take a look at this care sheet. It says it’s for Russians, but it covers other teststudos too.
Russian Tortoise Care Sheet
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Russian-Tortoise-Care-Sheet.80698/
Your tortoise needs a minimum enclosure size of 4x8 feet. The one they’re in is way too small for one tortoise, let alone two.
That substrate needs to go. Your tortoise needs a substrate that can hold humidity well, like coco coir or orchid bark.
How often do you soak?
What are your enclosure temps?
You need to put in a water bowl and a food bowl.
Your diet needs immediate change.

Your tortoises likely have a respiratory infection because they are too cold.
Please read the care sheet and come back with more questions.

Wow I feel so embarrassed. The pet store swore that it was a russain and that the substance i have under them is the best. Thank you for your advice, I will start working on a new habitat these coming days and update you for your advice, if its no trouble.
Forgive me if its a silly question but how do I know the tempreture ? Just a regular thermometer placed close to the light ?
Also what about its vitamins ? How and what vitamins can I feed it. The foods/plants in the recommended sheet are almost impossible to find in my country and would cost me at least $30-$50 per meal/day
I generally let them soak until I finish cleaning their enclosure which takes 5 - 10 mins but they want to get out after 5 mins anyway.
Is the light I have set up good for ther vitamin D ?

Thank you so much

 

[Musa Nathan]

Sorry to hear this...

You sound great but you are doing things the wrong...
1. Don’t trust pet stores.
2. Please next time do research before you buy another tortoise...different Tortoises require different environment.
3. Never keep a tortoise in a plastic container or glass...get a wooden box...
4. If it’s minor mucus drain it by tip tortoise face downwards to drain.
5. Run to a vet...
6. Never feed iceberg to a tortoise because it has zero nutrients...
7, the big the enclosure the better.
8. Avoid handling too much...

 

[TechnoCheese]

Wow I feel so embarrassed. The pet store swore that it was a russain and that the substance i have under them is the best. Thank you for your advice, I will start working on a new habitat these coming days and update you for your advice, if its no trouble.
Forgive me if its a silly question but how do I know the tempreture ? Just a regular thermometer placed close to the light ?
Also what about its vitamins ? How and what vitamins can I feed it. The foods/plants in the recommended sheet are almost impossible to find in my country and would cost me at least $30-$50 per meal/day
I generally let them soak until I finish cleaning their enclosure which takes 5 - 10 mins but they want to get out after 5 mins anyway.
Is the light I have set up good for ther vitamin D ?

Thank you so much

Temperatures are absolutely everything to an animal who can’t regulate its own.
I would recommend buying a temp gun off of amazon for 15 dollars, or buying one with a probe at the pet store. Don’t get the non digital button ones, because they are never accurate.

I don’t believe that your light produces uvb, and I suspect that one or both has metabolic bones disease. Are their carapaces (top shell) soft too?

You need to set up a proper enclosure ASAP. You can’t have that clamp light. It’s a fire hazard, and makes it impossible to get the correct temperature. You need to have it facing down.

Search around the TFO for diet sheets, because if you can’t afford the proper diet, that’s definitely a problem for your tortoise. You can find most food they eat in your backyard, and even buy seed mixes online.
Your tortoises need to be separated ASAP. They each need a proper enclosure. Tortoises only see each other as mates or combatants, and will often fight to the death. The reason one is smaller than the other? That is a prime example of tortoise aggression. One dominates the food bowl, basking spot, good sleeping spot, and them only having one hide makes it worse. “Cuddling”, as in sleeping next to or on each other, is tortoise bullying, one trying to push the other out of its territory. Same with “following”, which is actually chasing.
Why not to keep 2 tortoises together - a lesson learned the hard way
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php...gether---a-lesson-learned-the-hard-way.94114/

At the state that they’re in right now, I would recommend soaking every day for 20-30 minutes for a while. You need to put in a water bowl.

For vitamins, you need calcium and reptile vitamins. You might be able to find one in the pet store called “reptivite”. I would recommend the one with d3, since they haven’t had a uvb light. But make sure you don’t overdose.

 

[RosemaryDW]

The foods/plants in the recommended sheet are almost impossible to find in my country and would cost me at least $30-$50 per meal/day

Welcome Qads, we are glad you are here. Sorry to have so much hard news all at once but please don’t feel bad. We’ve all learned some things the hard way.

Getting the setups right is the most important thing so focus on that, and separating your tortoises first. After that you can get back to diet.

You are in the United Arab Emirates? What kind of markets do you have available to you? I know it won’t be the same but we have a large community of Iranian expats here and I have access to some things we don’t find in many parts of the U.S.

Here is a post I wrote on a local Persian market; there are quite a few foods available there that are good for Russians (and Greeks). The Tortoise Chef The last time I was at this market I found another kind of jute in the frozen section as well.

If there are markets selling greens used in Indian or Asian cuisines, you can find a lot there as well. Come over to the Diet thread when you’ve gotten sorted out with setup.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

Yet another case of incorrect information given to the customer by the pet store. I don't know how readily supplies are available in the UAE, so you may have to buy online. You will need a UVB light - either one or the other of these (not both):

This is a Mercury Vapor UVB bulb and it provides heat and UVB in one bulb, and you need to mount it in a fixture that has a ceramic (the white portion) base:


For night time heat without light you can use a ceramic heat emitter (CHE):



Then if you don't want the MVB shown above, you can use a fluorescent UVB bulb like this but it doesn't provide heat:





The little plastic tub you're using is basically a carrying case. It's much too small to house tortoises in for all the time. You can buy a large plastic tub like this:

Or a cow/horse waterer like this (they come in different sizes):

I like to use small grade orchid bark, but you may have trouble finding that, so you can use coco coir:

you soak it in warm water and it falls apart like this:

You will need a couple hiding places similar to this:



or:

Here's a link to the Greek care sheet we have pinned at the top of our Greek section:

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/greek-tortoise-testudo-graeca-care-sheet-overview.87146/

 

[Qads]

So I finally took them to the vet and heres what happend:
They are both sick and seem to have a flu I think she said they have a respiratory infection as she prescribed antibiotics. Two drops in the mouth for 7 days.
She weight them and one was lighter and smaller. He also had a pale tongue. So she decided to X Ray them both. Their lungs are fine, they arent comprised yet thank god and theres enough space there.
However, with the smaller one, since the shell is soft on the bottom, X Ray showed that he doesnt have much mass and his tongue paleness could be a liver problem.
She prescribed a liver medicine, 2 drops a day in the mouth for a couple of months.
She also prescribed a vitamin mix thats a powder that must be mixed with water. Here is where Im having a problem, they dont like this at all, I use a mini syringe to put it on their mouth and I dont want to force it in and traumatize them but they just arent accepting it. In fact because its a bit of a thick mixture (like baby food) they rub it and it gets in their nose and I have to quickly clean it and they get so stressed .. can you please advise me on the best way to feed them this substance ?
The doc told me that the bigger is expected to make a full recovery but the smaller one is a bit trickier and needs extra care. I already gave them the anti biotics and liver medicine and they responded well to it but the other mixture is a nightmare. Please help me.
Also I will start taking them out in direct sunlight whenever I can, but does any one here have any advice on what else I can do for them to speed up their recovery ?
Oh and she also mentioned that they are getting along fine and there is no need to seperate them as she has seen cases where one turtle bit the tail of another one off !!! But anyway I will seperate them in a couple of weeks just as soon as I get a bigger habitat set up.
Oh and I have a check up next week and if the smaller didnt get any better or gained bit of weight by then she would give them injections !!! My heart is breaking they are so so small how can they endure it ! Please help me and give me some advice on what I can do to make them stronger (esp their bones) and bear in mind that they are resistant to eating vitamins (i tried the above and a pellete like one but they still dont like either). Maybe theres another way I can trick them to eat vitamins ??

Temperatures are absolutely everything to an animal who can’t regulate its own.
I would recommend buying a temp gun off of amazon for 15 dollars, or buying one with a probe at the pet store. Don’t get the non digital button ones, because they are never accurate.

I don’t believe that your light produces uvb, and I suspect that one or both has metabolic bones disease. Are their carapaces (top shell) soft too?

You need to set up a proper enclosure ASAP. You can’t have that clamp light. It’s a fire hazard, and makes it impossible to get the correct temperature. You need to have it facing down.

Search around the TFO for diet sheets, because if you can’t afford the proper diet, that’s definitely a problem for your tortoise. You can find most food they eat in your backyard, and even buy seed mixes online.
Your tortoises need to be separated ASAP. They each need a proper enclosure. Tortoises only see each other as mates or combatants, and will often fight to the death. The reason one is smaller than the other? That is a prime example of tortoise aggression. One dominates the food bowl, basking spot, good sleeping spot, and them only having one hide makes it worse. “Cuddling”, as in sleeping next to or on each other, is tortoise bullying, one trying to push the other out of its territory. Same with “following”, which is actually chasing.
Why not to keep 2 tortoises together - a lesson learned the hard way
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php...gether---a-lesson-learned-the-hard-way.94114/

At the state that they’re in right now, I would recommend soaking every day for 20-30 minutes for a while. You need to put in a water bowl.

For vitamins, you need calcium and reptile vitamins. You might be able to find one in the pet store called “reptivite”. I would recommend the one with d3, since they haven’t had a uvb light. But make sure you don’t overdose.

I cant find any calcuim supplements at the pet store. Should I use human ones ?
About the torts, theyve been together for almost 2 years if not more and they never had a problem with each other. In fact, they always just ignore each other and sometime one just climbs past thinking hes a rock.
I will however seperate them when I get a bigger habitat set up by next week, theres honestly nothing I can do about it now as my hands are tied with work.
Also why is it a fire hazard may I ask ? Its the easiest one as I can control the tempreture on the side with a a round button.
Thank you for your advice

Welcome Qads, we are glad you are here. Sorry to have so much hard news all at once but please don’t feel bad. We’ve all learned some things the hard way.

Getting the setups right is the most important thing so focus on that, and separating your tortoises first. After that you can get back to diet.

You are in the United Arab Emirates? What kind of markets do you have available to you? I know it won’t be the same but we have a large community of Iranian expats here and I have access to some things we don’t find in many parts of the U.S.

Here is a post I wrote on a local Persian market; there are quite a few foods available there that are good for Russians (and Greeks). The Tortoise Chef The last time I was at this market I found another kind of jute in the frozen section as well.

If there are markets selling greens used in Indian or Asian cuisines, you can find a lot there as well. Come over to the Diet thread when you’ve gotten sorted out with setup.

WOW !!! I had no idea I can feed them those veggies, more than half of them are so easily available here as iranian food and indian food is literally part of our culture. I felt like crying so much because all the plants recommended in this forum doesnt exist in my country and seeds are banned from being imported into the country. I am so so so grateful that you sent me this. I will definitely give it a thorough check after Im done setting up their new habitat and will ask you some questions then, if its no problem.
Honestly, Thank you !!!

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

Yet another case of incorrect information given to the customer by the pet store. I don't know how readily supplies are available in the UAE, so you may have to buy online. You will need a UVB light - either one or the other of these (not both):

This is a Mercury Vapor UVB bulb and it provides heat and UVB in one bulb, and you need to mount it in a fixture that has a ceramic (the white portion) base:

View attachment 227882 View attachment 227878
For night time heat without light you can use a ceramic heat emitter (CHE):

View attachment 227879

Then if you don't want the MVB shown above, you can use a fluorescent UVB bulb like this but it doesn't provide heat:


View attachment 227880 View attachment 227881


The little plastic tub you're using is basically a carrying case. It's much too small to house tortoises in for all the time. You can buy a large plastic tub like this:

Or a cow/horse waterer like this (they come in different sizes):

I like to use small grade orchid bark, but you may have trouble finding that, so you can use coco coir:

you soak it in warm water and it falls apart like this:

You will need a couple hiding places similar to this:

View attachment 227883

or:

Here's a link to the Greek care sheet we have pinned at the top of our Greek section:

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/greek-tortoise-testudo-graeca-care-sheet-overview.87146/

Omg this is perfect !! Thank you so much for showing me pictures I really needed it but felt so embarrassed to ask on the fear that you guys will think I am stupid and dont understand. But honestly in my country its so hard to come by decent reptile supplies, anything remotely decent would set me back at least $200, in fact I know that if I build a habitat just half as good as the people here have I would be looking at $500 minimum per torte.
I actually have a big rabbit cage but since I gave them up its not been in use, I am thinking about repurposing it since the base is plastic. I will attach picture in the coming few days.
I will try my best to look for orchid or coir, I already looked in 6 different pet stores today as per the first commentators recommendation but no luck. I will keep looking.

Thank you so much for the bulb advice, you have no idea just how much I needed this with pics. I hope you dont mind me asking what you think of my current light ? People told me that the clamp is dangerous but it controls the tempreture and is easy/cheap. Mind you, this is the cheapest (but not worst quality) I could find and it set me back around $80 .. a proper one would set me back $160 easily so I hope you understand that I am a bit hesitant to spend money especially since todays visit to the vet cost me exactly $200.
Anyway I will start working on their nee habitat soon but in the meantime do you have any more advice for me regarding their current state after the vets diagnosis ?
Thank you so much


Again, all of you thank you so much for your advice. I am honestly doing the best I possibly can given my budget and most importantly the market available to me in my country so I hope you understand that I dont have access to half of what you all have. I recently started a new job and I reach home by 7pm so its tiresome and I barley have time then to go out and look for supplies but I am trying my best. I will work on their new habitat and keep you all updated with pics to get your opinion. I really appreciate it, I love my little babies so much and I only want them to live a long and happy life.

 

[TechnoCheese]

So I finally took them to the vet and heres what happend:
They are both sick and seem to have a flu I think she said they have a respiratory infection as she prescribed antibiotics. Two drops in the mouth for 7 days.
She weight them and one was lighter and smaller. He also had a pale tongue. So she decided to X Ray them both. Their lungs are fine, they arent comprised yet thank god and theres enough space there.
However, with the smaller one, since the shell is soft on the bottom, X Ray showed that he doesnt have much mass and his tongue paleness could be a liver problem.
She prescribed a liver medicine, 2 drops a day in the mouth for a couple of months.
She also prescribed a vitamin mix thats a powder that must be mixed with water. Here is where Im having a problem, they dont like this at all, I use a mini syringe to put it on their mouth and I dont want to force it in and traumatize them but they just arent accepting it. In fact because its a bit of a thick mixture (like baby food) they rub it and it gets in their nose and I have to quickly clean it and they get so stressed .. can you please advise me on the best way to feed them this substance ?
The doc told me that the bigger is expected to make a full recovery but the smaller one is a bit trickier and needs extra care. I already gave them the anti biotics and liver medicine and they responded well to it but the other mixture is a nightmare. Please help me.
Also I will start taking them out in direct sunlight whenever I can, but does any one here have any advice on what else I can do for them to speed up their recovery ?
Oh and she also mentioned that they are getting along fine and there is no need to seperate them as she has seen cases where one turtle bit the tail of another one off !!! But anyway I will seperate them in a couple of weeks just as soon as I get a bigger habitat set up.
Oh and I have a check up next week and if the smaller didnt get any better or gained bit of weight by then she would give them injections !!! My heart is breaking they are so so small how can they endure it ! Please help me and give me some advice on what I can do to make them stronger (esp their bones) and bear in mind that they are resistant to eating vitamins (i tried the above and a pellete like one but they still dont like either). Maybe theres another way I can trick them to eat vitamins ?

I cant find any calcuim supplements at the pet store. Should I use human ones ?
About the torts, theyve been together for almost 2 years if not more and they never had a problem with each other. In fact, they always just ignore each other and sometime one just climbs past thinking hes a rock.
I will however seperate them when I get a bigger habitat set up by next week, theres honestly nothing I can do about it now as my hands are tied with work.
Also why is it a fire hazard may I ask ? Its the easiest one as I can control the tempreture on the side with a a round button.
Thank you for your advice.

For the calcium supplement, you could try grinding up clean egg shells and sprinkling them over food.
While the tortoises may not look like they are showing aggression, they definitely are, which is the reason why one is doing much worse than the other. You are doing the right thing by separating them.
While the clamp lamp might be ok at this moment when you have an enclosure with thin, plastic walls, it won’t be when they are in a proper one. It is impossible to see if the temperatures are right at an angle like that; the beam needs to be coming straight down so that your tortoises can have a proper, 95-100 degree Fahrenheit enclosure.
I’m sorry if I ever come off as rude during any of this

 

[Yvonne G]

I don't have any info for you on your halogen light, as I've never seen that type before ( @Markw84 ???) But I DO know that you should figure out a way to hang it so it shines straight down, and don't use the clamp feature of the fixture. The clamps frequently fail, causing a fire hazard, also most UVB lights have shortened life span unless they hang straight down.

I wouldn't worry about the vitamin supplement the vet told you to use. You can just buy drops online and drip a couple drops over the food two or three times a week.

or:

Or:

 

[Cheryl Hills]

So I finally took them to the vet and heres what happend:
They are both sick and seem to have a flu I think she said they have a respiratory infection as she prescribed antibiotics. Two drops in the mouth for 7 days.
She weight them and one was lighter and smaller. He also had a pale tongue. So she decided to X Ray them both. Their lungs are fine, they arent comprised yet thank god and theres enough space there.
However, with the smaller one, since the shell is soft on the bottom, X Ray showed that he doesnt have much mass and his tongue paleness could be a liver problem.
She prescribed a liver medicine, 2 drops a day in the mouth for a couple of months.
She also prescribed a vitamin mix thats a powder that must be mixed with water. Here is where Im having a problem, they dont like this at all, I use a mini syringe to put it on their mouth and I dont want to force it in and traumatize them but they just arent accepting it. In fact because its a bit of a thick mixture (like baby food) they rub it and it gets in their nose and I have to quickly clean it and they get so stressed .. can you please advise me on the best way to feed them this substance ?
The doc told me that the bigger is expected to make a full recovery but the smaller one is a bit trickier and needs extra care. I already gave them the anti biotics and liver medicine and they responded well to it but the other mixture is a nightmare. Please help me.
Also I will start taking them out in direct sunlight whenever I can, but does any one here have any advice on what else I can do for them to speed up their recovery ?
Oh and she also mentioned that they are getting along fine and there is no need to seperate them as she has seen cases where one turtle bit the tail of another one off !!! But anyway I will seperate them in a couple of weeks just as soon as I get a bigger habitat set up.
Oh and I have a check up next week and if the smaller didnt get any better or gained bit of weight by then she would give them injections !!! My heart is breaking they are so so small how can they endure it ! Please help me and give me some advice on what I can do to make them stronger (esp their bones) and bear in mind that they are resistant to eating vitamins (i tried the above and a pellete like one but they still dont like either). Maybe theres another way I can trick them to eat vitamins ??




I cant find any calcuim supplements at the pet store. Should I use human ones ?
About the torts, theyve been together for almost 2 years if not more and they never had a problem with each other. In fact, they always just ignore each other and sometime one just climbs past thinking hes a rock.
I will however seperate them when I get a bigger habitat set up by next week, theres honestly nothing I can do about it now as my hands are tied with work.
Also why is it a fire hazard may I ask ? Its the easiest one as I can control the tempreture on the side with a a round button.
Thank you for your advice







WOW !!! I had no idea I can feed them those veggies, more than half of them are so easily available here as iranian food and indian food is literally part of our culture. I felt like crying so much because all the plants recommended in this forum doesnt exist in my country and seeds are banned from being imported into the country. I am so so so grateful that you sent me this. I will definitely give it a thorough check after Im done setting up their new habitat and will ask you some questions then, if its no problem.
Honestly, Thank you !!!



Omg this is perfect !! Thank you so much for showing me pictures I really needed it but felt so embarrassed to ask on the fear that you guys will think I am stupid and dont understand. But honestly in my country its so hard to come by decent reptile supplies, anything remotely decent would set me back at least $200, in fact I know that if I build a habitat just half as good as the people here have I would be looking at $500 minimum per torte.
I actually have a big rabbit cage but since I gave them up its not been in use, I am thinking about repurposing it since the base is plastic. I will attach picture in the coming few days.
I will try my best to look for orchid or coir, I already looked in 6 different pet stores today as per the first commentators recommendation but no luck. I will keep looking.

Thank you so much for the bulb advice, you have no idea just how much I needed this with pics. I hope you dont mind me asking what you think of my current light ? People told me that the clamp is dangerous but it controls the tempreture and is easy/cheap. Mind you, this is the cheapest (but not worst quality) I could find and it set me back around $80 .. a proper one would set me back $160 easily so I hope you understand that I am a bit hesitant to spend money especially since todays visit to the vet cost me exactly $200.
Anyway I will start working on their nee habitat soon but in the meantime do you have any more advice for me regarding their current state after the vets diagnosis ?
Thank you so much


Again, all of you thank you so much for your advice. I am honestly doing the best I possibly can given my budget and most importantly the market available to me in my country so I hope you understand that I dont have access to half of what you all have. I recently started a new job and I reach home by 7pm so its tiresome and I barley have time then to go out and look for supplies but I am trying my best. I will work on their new habitat and keep you all updated with pics to get your opinion. I really appreciate it, I love my little babies so much and I only want them to live a long and happy life.

If you are having trouble with substrate, I use peat moss. It works just like the coco coir but much cheaper and you can get it at a garden store or a Lowe’s, if you have one. Just another option that works

 

[Markw84]

I don't have any info for you on your halogen light, as I've never seen that type before ( @Markw84 ???)

Metal Halide lamps do produce a nice color balance and some UVB. However, it appears this bulb in particular produces a very minimal amount of UVB. OF the UV produced it is 3% UVB, 97% UVA. Not a good choice for a tortoise. The biggest issue is that Halide lamps should not be used on a dimmer. Although technically you can use dimmers, a dimmer will shift the light spectrum as you turn down the wattage used. The first you would lose is the UVB. Dimming also dramatically shortens the life of that type bulb and if dimmed past 50% will often cut the life of the bulb by 90%.

 

[Musa Nathan]

Welcome Qads, we are glad you are here. Sorry to have so much hard news all at once but please don’t feel bad. We’ve all learned some things the hard way.

Getting the setups right is the most important thing so focus on that, and separating your tortoises first. After that you can get back to diet.

You are in the United Arab Emirates? What kind of markets do you have available to you? I know it won’t be the same but we have a large community of Iranian expats here and I have access to some things we don’t find in many parts of the U.S.

Here is a post I wrote on a local Persian market; there are quite a few foods available there that are good for Russians (and Greeks). The Tortoise Chef The last time I was at this market I found another kind of jute in the frozen section as well.

If there are markets selling greens used in Indian or Asian cuisines, you can find a lot there as well. Come over to the Diet thread when you’ve gotten sorted out with setup.

Try reptile Pellets if they are available...also your veg leftovers or peelings...

 

[Cheryl Hills]

Try reptile Pellets if they are available...also your veg leftovers or peelings...

Russians can not handle verges except once in a great while. Too much sugars in them.

 

[Qads]

Just a quick update:

I repurposed my Rabbit cage and put a divider in the middle. They cant get to each other but they can still see and smell each other. Is this okay or cruel ?
Okay so I had to drive to another city and looked in 15! different shops but heres what I found for the bedding:
Peat Moss
Humus Block (says it contains coconut fibre)
Hay (also rabbit vitamins)
Are those okay ??
I used the Humus Block amd soaked it in water and spread it in their cage. As soon as I settled one (the smaller one) he went crazy and started TURBO-ing taking laps.. im not even joking he took more than 20 laps !! Is this okay ??
I noticed that his appetite has gone up so much the past few days, ever since I started his medicine.
The bigger one, however, isnt eating. In fact hes been down the past couple of days and I think I know why. After the smaller one regained some energy I am FINALLY noticing aggression !!! Its so weird because they always always always ignore each other. The vet visit changed them. And its funny because I would assume the bigger one would be the aggressor but its the other way around ! The smaller and sicker one is the troublesome one lol.

I ordered some orchid bark and cuttlebone and cococoir online, but I honestly have no idea if customs will reject it as they have done several times in the past.

So what do you guys think about my current enclosure and bedding ? Am I finally doing something right?

Also, I attached some picture of lights I found. Which do you recommend I get for my small tort since they need calcuim/vitamin D but are kept indoors ? I was afraid to get one because I read a comment on amazon that one of those lights got his tortoise blind !!! All three of them died !! I sadly cant remember which light the user talked about

For the calcium supplement, you could try grinding up clean egg shells and sprinkling them over food.
While the tortoises may not look like they are showing aggression, they definitely are, which is the reason why one is doing much worse than the other. You are doing the right thing by separating them.
While the clamp lamp might be ok at this moment when you have an enclosure with thin, plastic walls, it won’t be when they are in a proper one. It is impossible to see if the temperatures are right at an angle like that; the beam needs to be coming straight down so that your tortoises can have a proper, 95-100 degree Fahrenheit enclosure.
I’m sorry if I ever come off as rude during any of this

Rude ??? Youve been soo helpful ! I saved up some eggshells and I will start to crush it to their dish. I am currently working on their heating/lights. But I posted the only choices I found, I hope one is the right one.
Thank you !

I don't have any info for you on your halogen light, as I've never seen that type before ( @Markw84 ???) But I DO know that you should figure out a way to hang it so it shines straight down, and don't use the clamp feature of the fixture. The clamps frequently fail, causing a fire hazard, also most UVB lights have shortened life span unless they hang straight down.

I wouldn't worry about the vitamin supplement the vet told you to use. You can just buy drops online and drip a couple drops over the food two or three times a week.

or:

Or:

Perfect, I found some bird vitamin drops and i use a drop on their food. Do you reckon Cuttlebone is good ? They wont bite it so I was thinking I would grind them and sprinkle their food ?

If you are having trouble with substrate, I use peat moss. It works just like the coco coir but much cheaper and you can get it at a garden store or a Lowe’s, if you have one. Just another option that works

I checked so many stores but I finally found it !! It wont irritate their eyes or block the nose or poison them if they swallow it ?
Thank you !

Metal Halide lamps do produce a nice color balance and some UVB. However, it appears this bulb in particular produces a very minimal amount of UVB. OF the UV produced it is 3% UVB, 97% UVA. Not a good choice for a tortoise. The biggest issue is that Halide lamps should not be used on a dimmer. Although technically you can use dimmers, a dimmer will shift the light spectrum as you turn down the wattage used. The first you would lose is the UVB. Dimming also dramatically shortens the life of that type bulb and if dimmed past 50% will often cut the life of the bulb by 90%.

Wow thats such an informed answer !! Thank you ! Im just keeping this for now until I find a suitable replacement .. perhaps you could help me pick the best among the ones available to me ?
Thank you

Russians can not handle verges except once in a great while. Too much sugars in them.

Ooh thank you for that ! I recently increased their cucumber and carrot intake but I will stop. I have a question, do you recommend I feed them mushrooms ?
Im trying my best to find leaves and edible flowers, but other than the standard supermarket items, they are extremely hard to find, especially in a climate as unforgiving as the one I live in.

 

[Cheryl Hills]

Most of those bulbs you are showing are coiled bulbs and will or can harm your torts eyes.

 

[Markw84]

@Qads None of the lights you are showing are ones I like to use. Yvonne showed some good examples in a post above.

I know you are having trouble finding these items in UAE. We do have another member I know has set up quite a bit for an Aldabra tortoise who lives in the UAE. Perhaps he can offer suggestions for what he found and where he got them - @TortyDxb can you heip??

These are the type of lights I use and love. See if you can find something like them to purchase of have shipped:



This is my bulb of choice with a fixture that comes with it with a great reflector hood built in.




I also use grow light fixtures. They also are normally a good quality fixture as a good quality ballast is important for bulb performance and life. So it is important to get a good fixture for these bulbs. Grow light come with bulbs included that are great for growing plants and have a nice daylight type of light color. I replace one of the bulbs with one of the D3 bulbs shone above and leave the other grow light bulb in the other socket. This is an excellent choice:



Here is another. I have a few of these in use and am really pleased with them:



Hope this helps and you are able to find something. I would think the pet shop you took all those pictures of those other bulbs would stock at least some of these T5 bulbs. Perhaps now that you know what you are looking for, you can find them, or have them order for you. The compact fluorescents are not a good choice for a tortoise. All the basking bulbs you pictured are "spot" type bulbs and also not a good choice for basking as they concentrate too much heat in a very small area. For basking, I use a regular incandescent FLOOD bulb from a hardware or home improvement store. I put that in a brooder fixture made for heat for baby chicks. Use a fixture with a wide hood, not a closed "deep dome" hood the reptile shops sell. Those will overheat a bulb and dramatically shorten the life of the bulb. Here's the bulb and fixture I use:

 

[TortyDxb]

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

Yet another case of incorrect information given to the customer by the pet store. I don't know how readily supplies are available in the UAE, so you may have to buy online. You will need a UVB light - either one or the other of these (not both):

This is a Mercury Vapor UVB bulb and it provides heat and UVB in one bulb, and you need to mount it in a fixture that has a ceramic (the white portion) base:

View attachment 227882 View attachment 227878
For night time heat without light you can use a ceramic heat emitter (CHE):

View attachment 227879

Then if you don't want the MVB shown above, you can use a fluorescent UVB bulb like this but it doesn't provide heat:


View attachment 227880 View attachment 227881


The little plastic tub you're using is basically a carrying case. It's much too small to house tortoises in for all the time. You can buy a large plastic tub like this:

Or a cow/horse waterer like this (they come in different sizes):

I like to use small grade orchid bark, but you may have trouble finding that, so you can use coco coir:

you soak it in warm water and it falls apart like this:

You will need a couple hiding places similar to this:

View attachment 227883

or:

Here's a link to the Greek care sheet we have pinned at the top of our Greek section:

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/greek-tortoise-testudo-graeca-care-sheet-overview.87146/

@Yvonne G very useful post thank you @Qads all the heat and light bits mentioned in this particular post are available in dubai. Maybe a bit expensive tho. Either at the pet shop on sheikh zayed road near - the tesla showroom (google it) or online also I believe, for e.g. https://www.dubaipetfood.com/shop/heat-globes-933c1.html

That pet store had calcium supplements too.

Coco coir is available in massive sacks behind international city at Warsan garden centre, ask about as it’s a bit like a souk there with multiple sellers. Some have some don’t. It was cheap.

I think you look like you are doing a great job and slowly getting there - well done

 

[Tort dude]

Welcome to the forum!

I’m going to be a bit blunt here, but the short answer to your question? Everything.

That is no Russian tortoise you have there. I believe that it is a Greek, but you should wait for a second opinion. Your tortoises should never be kept in pairs, and they need to be separated immediately.
In the meantime, take a look at this care sheet. It says it’s for Russians, but it covers other teststudos too.
Russian Tortoise Care Sheet
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Russian-Tortoise-Care-Sheet.80698/
Your tortoise needs a minimum enclosure size of 4x8 feet. The one they’re in is way too small for one tortoise, let alone two.
That substrate needs to go. Your tortoise needs a substrate that can hold humidity well, like coco coir or orchid bark.
How often do you soak?
What are your enclosure temps?
You need to put in a water bowl and a food bowl.
Your diet needs immediate change.

Your tortoises likely have a respiratory infection because they are too cold.
Please read the care sheet and come back with more questions.

you have no idea what you are talking about. the can live in a 3x2 and still be the healthiest tort in the world. not that big is bad but you dont have to have a swimming pool as an enclosure.!!!