UV lighting for Redfoots

[KiraBeckham]

Hello,

I have recently welcomed a juvenile Redfoot into my home (approximately 2.5 to 3 years old we think).

I ordered the Arcadia pro t5 12% uvb 24" based on recommendations I saw here but am now doubting that purchase. I've since read that Redfoots, being a forest dwelling species do better with 6% uvb. It took me almost 2 weeks to get this light so I really don't want her waiting any longer to get that UVB but I also don't want the lighting to be too strong.

Bottom line, is the Arcadia pro t5 12% bulb a good choice for a Redfoot?
I've seen on here that 3 to 4 hours a day is enough for a Redfoot but my vet is advising 12 hours per day (or aligned with natural sun cycles). Thoughts?

Thanks so much, Kira

 

[wellington]

Hello,

I have recently welcomed a juvenile Redfoot into my home (approximately 2.5 to 3 years old we think).

I ordered the Arcadia pro t5 12% uvb 24" based on recommendations I saw here but am now doubting that purchase. I've since read that Redfoots, being a forest dwelling species do better with 6% uvb. It took me almost 2 weeks to get this light so I really don't want her waiting any longer to get that UVB but I also don't want the lighting to be too strong.

Bottom line, is the Arcadia pro t5 12% bulb a good choice for a Redfoot?
I've seen on here that 3 to 4 hours a day is enough for a Redfoot but my vet is advising 12 hours per day (or aligned with natural sun cycles). Thoughts?

Thanks so much, Kira

Vets, FB and most other places don't have the correct info
@ZEROPILOT will tell you what you need to know about RF

 

[KiraBeckham]

Vets, FB and most other places don't have the correct info
@ZEROPILOT will tell you what you need to know about RF

And, it might help to provide a little more context on our enclosure. It is roughly 4 feet by 3 feet stock tank that we are keeping enclosed with green house sheeting temporarily. It is 24" tall so I was thinking of setting the UVB light up at about 20" from the floor which would be roughly 15" or 16" above the tortoises shell? Thanks!

 

[Tom]

Hello,

I have recently welcomed a juvenile Redfoot into my home (approximately 2.5 to 3 years old we think).

I ordered the Arcadia pro t5 12% uvb 24" based on recommendations I saw here but am now doubting that purchase. I've since read that Redfoots, being a forest dwelling species do better with 6% uvb. It took me almost 2 weeks to get this light so I really don't want her waiting any longer to get that UVB but I also don't want the lighting to be too strong.

Bottom line, is the Arcadia pro t5 12% bulb a good choice for a Redfoot?
I've seen on here that 3 to 4 hours a day is enough for a Redfoot but my vet is advising 12 hours per day (or aligned with natural sun cycles). Thoughts?

Thanks so much, Kira

Several things...

1. Wellington is certainly right about the vets... Most know nothing about tortoise care, and do more harm than good. Natural sun cycles, as far as UVB is concerned, are zero UV in the morning, a steady build up late morning, peak mid day, and tapering off to zero again by late afternoon. This is why I think a few hours of mid day UV is best. Because it more closely mimics what happens outside.
2. There is no where in the world with high levels of UV for 12 hours a day. Daylight for 12 hours a day, yes. But not strong UV all day every day. 2-3 hours in our enclosures is plenty. 15 minutes is enough to get the job done.
3. The 12% bulb will be fine. Mount it a little higher than you would for a basking species.
4. You need ambient lighting on for 12 hours a day. This is best provided with LEDs of the correct color temp of 5000-6500. Create lots of "shade" areas and hiding places for your tortoise to escape the bright lights. Don't rely on a UV tube for lighting your enclosure. Ambient lighting is for ambient lights and UV tubes are for UV. Two separate things.
5. RFs take in a fair amount of dietary D3. Because of this, their UV requirements tend to be lower than most other tortoise species and situations. The fact that they are considered "forest' tortoises and live large percentages of their lives under a tree canopy, demonstrates this further. I am aware that some wild RFs bask in the sun more than some others, but I think most people will agree that they have more of an affinity for the shade when compared to most other species.

@ZEROPILOT , or any other experienced RF keeper: Please shoot me down if any of this is not correct.

 

[KiraBeckham]

Tom, Thanks so much for your detail. Does ~ 16" above the shell of the tortoise seem appropriate for height? And a quick question on the ambient LED lighting. She is in a room that is south facing and so gets loads of natural light during the day. She has lots of plants and a hide to escape the light if she wants but definitely seems to enjoy basking in the sunlight each day. With that amount of natural light do you still recommend the LED?

I'm very happy I don't need to return the 12.0 bulb. Thanks again!

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Several things...

1. Wellington is certainly right about the vets... Most know nothing about tortoise care, and do more harm than good. Natural sun cycles, as far as UVB is concerned, are zero UV in the morning, a steady build up late morning, peak mid day, and tapering off to zero again by late afternoon. This is why I think a few hours of mid day UV is best. Because it more closely mimics what happens outside.
2. There is no where in the world with high levels of UV for 12 hours a day. Daylight for 12 hours a day, yes. But not strong UV all day every day. 2-3 hours in our enclosures is plenty. 15 minutes is enough to get the job done.
3. The 12% bulb will be fine. Mount it a little higher than you would for a basking species.
4. You need ambient lighting on for 12 hours a day. This is best provided with LEDs of the correct color temp of 5000-6500. Create lots of "shade" areas and hiding places for your tortoise to escape the bright lights. Don't rely on a UV tube for lighting your enclosure. Ambient lighting is for ambient lights and UV tubes are for UV. Two separate things.
5. RFs take in a fair amount of dietary D3. Because of this, their UV requirements tend to be lower than most other tortoise species and situations. The fact that they are considered "forest' tortoises and live large percentages of their lives under a tree canopy, demonstrates this further. I am aware that some wild RFs bask in the sun more than some others, but I think most people will agree that they have more of an affinity for the shade when compared to most other species.

@ZEROPILOT , or any other experienced RF keeper: Please shoot me down if any of this is not correct.

No sir. You are indeed correct.
That stronger tube will end up paying for itself many times over. Because as it's effectiveness diminishes, it can just be lowered an inch or two over time and still be effective. Possibly for years.
Unfortunately the only way to know exactly where to mount it, you'll need a SOLARMETER 6.5 so that you can measure the exact UVB level.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Tom, Thanks so much for your detail. Does ~ 16" above the shell of the tortoise seem appropriate for height? And a quick question on the ambient LED lighting. She is in a room that is south facing and so gets loads of natural light during the day. She has lots of plants and a hide to escape the light if she wants but definitely seems to enjoy basking in the sunlight each day. With that amount of natural light do you still recommend the LED?

I'm very happy I don't need to return the 12.0 bulb. Thanks again!

That natural sunlight is great for ambient lighting. But will provide no UVB since the window glass and the screen will block it out.
It might actually be perfect since REDFOOT tend to stay out of the direct sunlight

 

[KiraBeckham]

Thanks to all.

I will keep the 12.0, get a Solarmeter 6.5, and stick with ambient light from the windows unless her setting changes in which case I'll get her the LED for ambient.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Thanks to all.

I will keep the 12.0, get a Solarmeter 6.5, and stick with ambient light from the windows unless her setting changes in which case I'll get her the LED for ambient.

Sounds great.
What are you using for heat?
I probably missed that part.

 

[KiraBeckham]

@ZEROPILOT , @ok maybe I'm dense but I set up the enclosure last night with my new VE RHP. I We had problems with off gassing but I wanted to try it again since they seem recommended and I'm trying to get Temps closer to 80 degrees. I have not yet added the UVB light yet. I was planning to just maintain ambient temperatures between say 78 and 85 degrees using the RHP. The photo doesn't show this burt the enclosure is covered with greenhouse sheeting to hold in heat and humidity. I have 2 problems. I still smell the off gassing and 2, my thermostat is set to 83 degrees but the digital thermostat stays around 75 degrees until the sun came around today and really warmed things up. I have the thermostat probe at 2 1/2 inches below the RHP per the instructions. Why does it hover at 75 despite the temp being programmed at 83? Do you have problems with off gassing?

She was doing well until the other day. I gave her 1/4 of a hard boiled egg with her usual greens which she loved. That night she had a massive diarrhea and the following day started passing really smelly urates. She seems sluggisg today and hasn't eaten today or yesterday. I gave her warm soaks, cleaned her enclosure after each accident, but am worried about her. She almost seems cold to me since installing the RHP so I'm baffled and desperately want to get her Temps stable if she's unwell.

Could I have harmed her with the hard boiled egg? Do you feed your RFs protein? Wow tortoise keeping seems hard.

 

[Tom]

The thermostat probe needs to be down near the tortoise, not up near the RHP.

With an open top like that, a single RHP might not be enough. They don't generate all that much heat. You may need to add a CHE or another RHP. The green house sheeting is good for holding in humidity, but not so good for holding in heat, as you are seeing.

 

[KiraBeckham]

@ZEROPILOT , I was a CHE but just switched to the VE Radiant Heat Panel described and shown above. It's 80W because we're in freezing Colorado.

 

[KiraBeckham]

@wellington , ok, I will move the probe down. By doing that should I hopefully see the Temps go up. The CHE had done a great job of keeping her warm even with a more open sheet to make room for the bulb. The guy at VE, was very convincing that the probe should be 2 inches under the panel. I'll try moving it but if I can't get Temps up well I'll move back to the CHE for now.

 

[Tom]

@wellington , ok, I will move the probe down. By doing that should I hopefully see the Temps go up. The CHE had done a great job of keeping her warm even with a more open sheet to make room for the bulb. The guy at VE, was very convincing that the probe should be 2 inches under the panel. I'll try moving it but if I can't get Temps up well I'll move back to the CHE for now.

Best to use the RHP AND the CHE.

Having the probe up near the panel makes no sense. You don't want to maintain 80+ degrees 2 inches under the panel. You want to maintain that temperature down where the tortoise is away from the heat sources. If it is cooler than the set point down where the tortoise is, the heat sources should remain on.

 

[wellington]

If the radiant panel won't bring the temps up warm enough, run both, panel And che. You should be able to run them on the same thermostat, @ZEROPILOT @Tom

 

[wellington]

If the radiant panel won't bring the temps up warm enough, run both, panel And che. You should be able to run them on the same thermostat, @ZEROPILOT @Tom

Lol, Tom already answered at same time I posted.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Hard boiled egg is fine. But Redfoot don't pass urates. So I think you might be seeing egg that didn't get totally digested due to being kept too cool.
That would also explain the smell.
Redfoot can survive at temperatures in the 70s. But it's my understanding that digestion needs around 80°

Keep in mind I do not keep tortoises indoors longtime. I also live in a tropical climate and I have no first hand experience with heat mats. So, while I love offering information about Redfoot health, behavior and care, etc...There is an entire swath of information that I'm just not very informative about. The parts about keeping Redfoot in actually cold places. Small enclosures. Or keeping a large indoor enclosure both warm and humid are things I've never had to deal with. And I actually admire anyone who does so successfully.

 

[KiraBeckham]

@ZEROPILOT, so, I'm trying to do my best by this tortoise but she definitely belongs in a place like Florida. Trying to emulate a hot humid environment here is definitely tricky. Do you know if Divine Tortoise Sanctuary in Florida has a good reputation? I'm trying to get her a forever home there. You don't have space for a new one do you? Ha!

 

[ZEROPILOT]

If the radiant panel won't bring the temps up warm enough, run both, panel And che. You should be able to run them on the same thermostat, @ZEROPILOT @Tom

I've never owned a heat panel or pig

@ZEROPILOT, so, I'm trying to do my best by this tortoise but she definitely belongs in a place like Florida. Trying to emulate a hot humid environment here is definitely tricky. Do you know if Divine Tortoise Sanctuary in Florida has a good reputation? I'm trying to get her a forever home there. You don't have space for a new one do you? Ha!

A real "Rescue" or "Sanctuary" in Florida is like BIGFOOT. I'd like to think that there is a real one, but I've never seen one.
Over the past decades I've tried to find one to place a few Redfoot with. I've contacted at least two out of interest at the time to ad an individual or two to my group. And I always found the same thing...Tortoises kept in horrible conditions. Species mixed together and cash is king. Meaning that the tortoises health is secondary.
Years ago, one such "rescue" from Miami that I was familiar with became a member here on the forum....You guessed it.....he was here looking for free tortoises to sell.
I called him out and he quickly crawled back under the rock from where he came.

Honestly. I'm sure that actual sanctuaries do exist. And I don't know anything about the one you mentioned. The only honest to goodness one I know of is for Florida's native Gopher tortoises. And it is supported by the state of Florida.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I just looked at DIVINEs FACEBOOK pages.
I saw a lot of tortoise species. They seemed separated by species and I saw nothing alarming.
No red flags. I'm happily surprised.