Sulcata | weight-to-length ratio chart?

[Kr1st1n]

Hi everyone,
This is my first post… I’m kind of nervous because you all are so experienced and I am not (yet).
I also feel like I know so many of you because this forum is somewhat of my “tortoise care bible”!!…LOL so THANK YOU!!! You’ve all been so helpful in my journey thus far with my newest member of my family, Fergus/Fergie (gender TBD), a young sulcata (~1year old).
Okay, so my actual question… I understand that there’s no true sizing chart/growth rate chart for sulcatas because they can vary so much. However, is there anything that can help with determining if your sulcata’s weight is appropriate for their size? How do I know if my sulcata is under or over weight… or do I not need to worry about that?
Thanks in advance,
KV

 

[Tim Carlisle]

There is a body mass index formula you can use if you're good with math.

tBMI= cWTcm/tWTgr (or SCLcm^3 x 0.191)[/b]

EXAMPLE:
A tortoise with a straight-line carapace length (SCL) of 12.3 centimeters and a cWTgr (current weight in grams) of 349.
- The tWTgr is 355.425597 (12.3^3x0.191)
- 349/355.4= 0.982
- tBMI= 0.982

(Note- Google do all the work for you if you type in "[current weight in grams]/([SCL in centimeters]^3x0.191)=". The answer you get will be the tBMI.)

RESULTS:
You can determine if your tortoise is normal, dehydrated, or obese based on these results. Note- the figures used below are extrapolated from several sources and should be used as guidelines only!

- 0.66 or lower: There is less than a 2.5% chance that this tortoise is healthy at this weight. It is probably very dehydrated and/or underfed and should be seen by a vet.
- 0.66 to 0.83: There is only about a 15% chance that this tortoise is healthy at this weight. It is probably dehydrated and/or underfed and needs appropriate care.
- 0.83 to 1.00: This is a normal range, but statistically a little underweight, which may signal mild dehydration and/or being underfed. Review and correct cares and diet as appropriate.
- 1.00 to 1.16: This is a normal range, but statistically a little overweight, which may signal mild overfeeding. Review and correct cares and diet as appropriate.
-1.16 to 1.33: There is only about a 15% chance that this tortoise is healthy at this weight. It is probably at least somewhat obese and needs appropriate care.
1.33 or over: There is less than a 2.5% chance that this tortoise is healthy at this weight. It is probably obese and needs appropriate care.

 

[Tom]

Hi everyone,
This is my first post… I’m kind of nervous because you all are so experienced and I am not (yet).
I also feel like I know so many of you because this forum is somewhat of my “tortoise care bible”!!…LOL so THANK YOU!!! You’ve all been so helpful in my journey thus far with my newest member of my family, Fergus/Fergie (gender TBD), a young sulcata (~1year old).
Okay, so my actual question… I understand that there’s no true sizing chart/growth rate chart for sulcatas because they can vary so much. However, is there anything that can help with determining if your sulcata’s weight is appropriate for their size? How do I know if my sulcata is under or over weight… or do I not need to worry about that?
Thanks in advance,
KV

If the tortoise is eating well and you are soaking frequently, then I would not worry about this. Weigh weekly or monthly at the same time of day, following the same routine, and look for steady growth.

Your tortoise should feel dense and heavy for its size when you pick it up. If it feels light or hollow, then you have a problem.

 

[Kr1st1n]

There is a body mass index formula you can use if you're good with math.

tBMI= cWTcm/tWTgr (or SCLcm^3 x 0.191)[/b]

EXAMPLE:
A tortoise with a straight-line carapace length (SCL) of 12.3 centimeters and a cWTgr (current weight in grams) of 349.
- The tWTgr is 355.425597 (12.3^3x0.191)
- 349/355.4= 0.982
- tBMI= 0.982

(Note- Google do all the work for you if you type in "[current weight in grams]/([SCL in centimeters]^3x0.191)=". The answer you get will be the tBMI.)

RESULTS:
You can determine if your tortoise is normal, dehydrated, or obese based on these results. Note- the figures used below are extrapolated from several sources and should be used as guidelines only!

- 0.66 or lower: There is less than a 2.5% chance that this tortoise is healthy at this weight. It is probably very dehydrated and/or underfed and should be seen by a vet.
- 0.66 to 0.83: There is only about a 15% chance that this tortoise is healthy at this weight. It is probably dehydrated and/or underfed and needs appropriate care.
- 0.83 to 1.00: This is a normal range, but statistically a little underweight, which may signal mild dehydration and/or being underfed. Review and correct cares and diet as appropriate.
- 1.00 to 1.16: This is a normal range, but statistically a little overweight, which may signal mild overfeeding. Review and correct cares and diet as appropriate.
-1.16 to 1.33: There is only about a 15% chance that this tortoise is healthy at this weight. It is probably at least somewhat obese and needs appropriate care.
1.33 or over: There is less than a 2.5% chance that this tortoise is healthy at this weight. It is probably obese and needs appropriate care.

OMG!! My tortoise is obese!?!?
SCL=3.6”… so that’s 9.14 centimeters
Weight=193 grams
tBMI=1.32

 

[Tim Carlisle]

OMG!! My tortoise is obese!?!?
SCL=3.6”… so that’s 9.14 centimeters
Weight=193 grams
tBMI=1.32

How are you measuring its length?

 

[Tom]

OMG!! My tortoise is obese!?!?
SCL=3.6”… so that’s 9.14 centimeters
Weight=193 grams
tBMI=1.32

Those ratios never work for tortoises. Too much variety in size, shape, volume, etc... The main one that people often refer to, "The Jackson Ratio", was made for hermanni if memory serves, but even within that species, there is a lot of variety of sizes and shapes with much geographical variation.

 

[Tim Carlisle]

Those ratios never work for tortoises. Too much variety in size, shape, volume, etc... The main one that people often refer to, "The Jackson Ratio", was made for hermanni if memory serves, but even within that species, there is a lot of variety of sizes and shapes with much geographical variation.

Correct. Not very accurate when it comes to sulcatas in particular. It's fun to play around with the math though

 

[Kr1st1n]

If the tortoise is eating well and you are soaking frequently, then I would not worry about this. Weigh weekly or monthly at the same time of day, following the same routine, and look for steady growth.

Your tortoise should feel dense and heavy for its size when you pick it up. If it feels light or hollow, then you have a problem.

I acquired/rescued my little Fergus on July 5th this year and s/he was said to be born in early summer of 2022… so just over a year old.
On the day I got it, it’s SCL was 2.93”and weighed 105 grams…
As of yesterday (41 days later), it’s now 3.6” and currently weighs 193. So it definitely feels dense… maybe too dense and that’s what I was concerned about. And in looking at the tBMI formula Tim provided, it’s obese!?! 😢

*What are the portions I should be feeding?*

I’m in the process of building a garden of good food for it (my dandelions just started sprouting!!)… but in the interim, it’s been eating spring mix, wheat grass, collard greens, bok choy, mazuri, aloe, and some veggies every once in a while. I live in Tucson, AZ, so I don’t have any natural weeds, grass, vegetation in my yard (yet!!! In progress).
It gets daily soaks for at least 40 mins… and its enclosure remains at a 60% - 90% humidity level (I use a hygrostat) and multiple thermostats to keep temps correct throughout different areas of it.
It also gets 1-2 hours of outdoor time in a big open enclosure with 1/4” hardware cloth surrounding it so no rodents can get in and a couple misters above keep it “cool” (and when I say cool, I mean getting it to 95°).

 

[Kr1st1n]

How are you measuring its length?

I’m using a digital caliper.

 

[Tim Carlisle]

I’m using a digital caliper.

Just remember... that formula is more a guideline than a rule. Highly doubtful your tort is obese. At that size it's probably "baby fat" lol

 

[jaizei]

I acquired/rescued my little Fergus on July 5th this year and s/he was said to be born in early summer of 2022… so just over a year old.
On the day I got it, it’s SCL was 2.93”and weighed 105 grams…
As of yesterday (41 days later), it’s now 3.6” and currently weighs 193. So it definitely feels dense… maybe too dense and that’s what I was concerned about. And in looking at the tBMI formula Tim provided, it’s obese!?! 😢

*What are the portions I should be feeding?*

I’m in the process of building a garden of good food for it (my dandelions just started sprouting!!)… but in the interim, it’s been eating spring mix, wheat grass, collard greens, bok choy, mazuri, aloe, and some veggies every once in a while. I live in Tucson, AZ, so I don’t have any natural weeds, grass, vegetation in my yard (yet!!! In progress).
It gets daily soaks for at least 40 mins… and its enclosure remains at a 60% - 90% humidity level (I use a hygrostat) and multiple thermostats to keep temps correct throughout different areas of it.
It also gets 1-2 hours of outdoor time in a big open enclosure with 1/4” hardware cloth surrounding it so no rodents can get in and a couple misters above keep it “cool” (and when I say cool, I mean getting it to 95°).

How reliable would you consider that age? Is it possible whoever said '22 misspoke and meant '23.

When they're 'stunted' and don't grow for a year, it's not common for them to immediately grow at a normal rate. Doubling in weight in 6 weeks is very much normal for a hatchling sulcata, maybe a little on the faster side.

 

[Kr1st1n]

How reliable would you consider that age? Is it possible whoever said '22 misspoke and meant '23.

When they're 'stunted' and don't grow for a year, it's not common for them to immediately grow at a normal rate. Doubling in weight in 6 weeks is very much normal for a hatchling sulcata, maybe a little on the faster side.

How reliable would you consider that age? Is it possible whoever said '22 misspoke and meant '23.

When they're 'stunted' and don't grow for a year, it's not common for them to immediately grow at a normal rate. Doubling in weight in 6 weeks is very much normal for a hatchling sulcata, maybe a little on the faster side.

good point... IDK... I never met the person... someone I know rescued ~6 or so from a guy who I don't think was caring for them very well (hence the need for being rescued). If it was born in 2023 though, that would mean that it was really only barely a month old when I got it... so would 2.9" be big for a 1 month old sulcata... I genuinely have no idea?

 

[Kr1st1n]

Just remember... that formula is more a guideline than a rule. Highly doubtful your tort is obese. At that size it's probably "baby fat" lol

I like that idea better! ... and the "baby fat" made me smile. S/he really is SO ADORABLE!! Hard to believe I'd fall in love with a reptile, but I'm hooked! I just wish it didn't hate me so much LOL... pees about 50% of the time when I handle it and I only handle it when taking for a soak or outdoor time. I've even started to wear mittens when handling and my exposed hands for feeding ... all in an attempt to form a positive association with my exposed hands! LOL haha!! IDK if it'll work or not, but my fingers are crossed!

 

[Kr1st1n]

🥰🐢

 

[Tom]

I acquired/rescued my little Fergus on July 5th this year and s/he was said to be born in early summer of 2022… so just over a year old.
On the day I got it, it’s SCL was 2.93”and weighed 105 grams…
As of yesterday (41 days later), it’s now 3.6” and currently weighs 193. So it definitely feels dense… maybe too dense and that’s what I was concerned about. And in looking at the tBMI formula Tim provided, it’s obese!?! 😢

*What are the portions I should be feeding?*

I’m in the process of building a garden of good food for it (my dandelions just started sprouting!!)… but in the interim, it’s been eating spring mix, wheat grass, collard greens, bok choy, mazuri, aloe, and some veggies every once in a while. I live in Tucson, AZ, so I don’t have any natural weeds, grass, vegetation in my yard (yet!!! In progress).
It gets daily soaks for at least 40 mins… and its enclosure remains at a 60% - 90% humidity level (I use a hygrostat) and multiple thermostats to keep temps correct throughout different areas of it.
It also gets 1-2 hours of outdoor time in a big open enclosure with 1/4” hardware cloth surrounding it so no rodents can get in and a couple misters above keep it “cool” (and when I say cool, I mean getting it to 95°).

Your tortoise is not obese. It is a healthy growing baby. You should be feeding it as much of the rights foods as it wants daily. Tortoises are grazers. Let your tortoise graze.

They can't get to 105 in a month, but the tortoise may be a little younger than they told you, or it may have just not grown much in that first year due to dry, poor care.

All the things you are doing sound great. Keep adding more variety to the diet. Start growing spineless opuntia. They like that much better than aloe. Try to keep humidity up over 80% all over all the time in the indoor enclosure. 60% is too low, unless that is right under the heat lamp, and then it would be normal for it to be so low.

Have you seen this and the care sheet at the bottom? I'll leave it here just in case you haven't.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Kr1st1n]

Your tortoise is not obese. It is a healthy growing baby. You should be feeding it as much of the rights foods as it wants daily. Tortoises are grazers. Let your tortoise graze.

They can't get to 105 in a month, but the tortoise may be a little younger than they told you, or it may have just not grown much in that first year due to dry, poor care.

All the things you are doing sound great. Keep adding more variety to the diet. Start growing spineless opuntia. They like that much better than aloe. Try to keep humidity up over 80% all over all the time in the indoor enclosure. 60% is too low, unless that is right under the heat lamp, and then it would be normal for it to be so low.

Have you seen this and the care sheet at the bottom? I'll leave it here just in case you haven't.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Thanks Tom, and to no surprise, I’ve already read what you sent … multiple times… I’ve pretty much read as many of your posts as I can find 😊… haha. The humidity is mostly over 80% but there’s one area (under basking spot) that tends to stay around 60%… so that’s why I gave the range…. I should have just said 85% LOL.

And thanks also for the portion guidance… that’s what I’ve been doing. I basically feed it with the expectation that the next time I feed it, there will be some leftover.

2 weeks ago I did plant 6 paddles of spineless optunia from cuts my neighbor gave me so those should start taking root and growing soon(ish)… and I’m hoping the monsoon season will produce some ground cover growth that I can foster continued growth of after the season ends.

So now that I feel better about its weight (I knew it was small for its age based off of what I’ve researched…and assuming the age is correct)… I just need to figure out why it hates me so much 😉 LOL 😂.

 

[Tom]

I just need to figure out why it hates me so much 😉 LOL 😂.

It sounds like you are now good to go on everything, so let's solve this last one for you!

It doesn't hate you. In the wild in Africa, everything wants to eat a baby tortoise. There are literally dozens of predators that would snap up a baby tortoise on sight. Primates, birds, snakes, lizards, crocs, big cats, small cats, hyenas, etc... It is perfectly normal for them to behave this way when they are little. You are a big scary "predator" to a tiny little tortoise.

What to do about this? Nothing. All of them come around by around 3-4 years old and start getting better and better. You will literally be tripping over your 5 year old because it will follow you around the pen like a puppy, and that is if you just go about your business and don't even try to desensitize or interact with it. If you hand feed it, pet it, carry it around, and spend lots of time with the tortoise, this can happen even faster. Just give your little baby some time and keep it healthy and growing. It will "like" you soon enough.

 

[Kr1st1n]

It sounds like you are now good to go on everything, so let's solve this last one for you!

It doesn't hate you. In the wild in Africa, everything wants to eat a baby tortoise. There are literally dozens of predators that would snap up a baby tortoise on sight. Primates, birds, snakes, lizards, crocs, big cats, small cats, hyenas, etc... It is perfectly normal for them to behave this way when they are little. You are a big scary "predator" to a tiny little tortoise.

What to do about this? Nothing. All of them come around by around 3-4 years old and start getting better and better. You will literally be tripping over your 5 year old because it will follow you around the pen like a puppy, and that is if you just go about your business and don't even try to desensitize or interact with it. If you hand feed it, pet it, carry it around, and spend lots of time with the tortoise, this can happen even faster. Just give your little baby some time and keep it healthy and growing. It will "like" you soon enough.

😍❤️😍 thank you!! Phew!