Soft shell

[Yoda_the_redfoot]

I have a red foot tortoise he is almost 5 months old and his whole shell seems to be a little soft. I have read a lot about when they are young they have soft shells but I don’t think that is the case anymore. And yes he gets calcium with vitamin d3 in it he goes outside daily to get all of the sun rays. Should I be worried, and or is there anything I can do

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
Can you tell a bit more about his care and Yoda himself (some photos would be great):
1. His diet, how often do you give calcium or other supplements
2. His enclosure (lightning, heating, humidity temperatures)
3. Routines: when and how long he is outside, soakings
4. His behaviour - is he active, exploring, eating, pooping (are poops firm and well-formed?).
5. Are we talking about top of his shell or bottom part (plastron)?

 

[Yoda_the_redfoot]

He used to get calcium every other day but recently I have been giving it to him everyday, yes it is the one with vitamin d3. As of his enclosure he has a fullers basking bulb 100watt, there is also a 5.0 uvb bulb, and his humidity is at a constant 82-90 percent. He gets a bath every other day, and I take him outside everyday for atleast an hour as I’m at school during the day. He is active, he comes out and walks around his enclosure everyday, he eats daily, and his poops are consistent. As of here his shell is soft I would say every where but mainly the bottom.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

This sounds fine.

1. With 1 hour of sunshine (if it's between 10AM and 3PM) and a UVB bulb he doesn't need Calcium + D3. Just plain calcium powder (and optionally a cuttlefish bone in the enclosure). A tiny pinch 2-3 times a week is more than enough with proper diet.
2. Soak him daily. Twice a day (in the morning and after walk outside) won't harm. Also, ensure he has a large enough shallow water dish, so he can drink soak on his own (terracotta saucers are great option).

A few follow-up questions:
1. What kind of UVB lamp you use (a coiled bulb or straight tube)? Exact model, if you have a box, would be great.
2. What are temperatures in the enclosure (night/day ambient and under basking lamp)?
3. How do you keep temperatures at night?
4. What do you feed him? How much, how often?
5. Can you weigh/measure him? Maybe you keep a track of his weight/size?
6. Can you post some photos of him and the enclosure?

Some shell softness is still normal at 5 months, but it should not be like a sponge, of course, more like a Tupperware container lid.

 

[Yoda_the_redfoot]

This sounds fine.

1. With 1 hour of sunshine (if it's between 10AM and 3PM) and a UVB bulb he doesn't need Calcium + D3. Just plain calcium powder (and optionally a cuttlefish bone in the enclosure). A tiny pinch 2-3 times a week is more than enough with proper diet.
2. Soak him daily. Twice a day (in the morning and after walk outside) won't harm. Also, ensure he has a large enough shallow water dish, so he can drink soak on his own (terracotta saucers are great option).

A few follow-up questions:
1. What kind of UVB lamp you use (a coiled bulb or straight tube)? Exact model, if you have a box, would be great.
2. What are temperatures in the enclosure (night/day ambient and under basking lamp)?
3. How do you keep temperatures at night?
4. What do you feed him? How much, how often?
5. Can you weigh/measure him? Maybe you keep a track of his weight/size?
6. Can you post some photos of him and the enclosure?

Some shell softness is still normal at 5 months, but it should not be like a sponge, of course, more like a Tupperware container lid.

During the day the ambient heat is around 80-82 and underneath the hotspot it reaches about 90 degrees. At night it gets to around 75 I don’t have a heating source for nighttime. For food he eats a bunch lettuce, tortoise diet pellets, meal worms,strawberry, watermelon, and also hibiscus flowers. His diet is about 80 percent greens 15 percent fruit and about 5 percent protein, he eats once a day. He does have a water dish in his enclosure which he drinks from daily. For weight when I first got him which was two months ago he was 65 grams he now is 72-74 grams. In his enclosure for the bottom substrate there is coconut coir which I keep moist to help with humidity, and then on top of it is reptile bark and the bark is always dry. He also has a burrow that I built for him. Since the top of the enclosure is mesh I keep damp towels on top of it to hold humidity. I listed some photos below

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

During the day the ambient heat is around 80-82 and underneath the hotspot it reaches about 90 degrees. At night it gets to around 75 I don’t have a heating source for nighttime. For food he eats a bunch lettuce, tortoise diet pellets, meal worms,strawberry, watermelon, and also hibiscus flowers. His diet is about 80 percent greens 15 percent fruit and about 5 percent protein, he eats once a day. He does have a water dish in his enclosure which he drinks from daily. For weight when I first got him which was two months ago he was 65 grams he now is 72-74 grams. In his enclosure for the bottom substrate there is coconut coir which I keep moist to help with humidity, and then on top of it is reptile bark and the bark is always dry. He also has a burrow that I built for him. Since the top of the enclosure is mesh I keep damp towels on top of it to hold humidity. I listed some photos below

Thank you for the details!
You are doing great with care. And he looks beautiful and healthy!

You can make a few adjustments:
1. Ramped water dishes aren't 100% safe for hatchlings. There is a risk of flipping and drowning. A simple shallow non-glazed terracotta saucer, buried in substrate is a better option.
2. Instead of towels you can wrap mesh top with a tin foil with cuts for the lamp fixture. This should work better for retaining heat and humidity.
3. Add some variety to his diet: hibiscus leaves (not only flowers) - are a great source of calcium and fiber, other fruit like papaya and mango, opuntia cactus (aka "prickly pear" or "nopales", both fruit and pads). Mulberry or young grape leaves are good foods as well. Radicchio, chickory, endive, kale, cilantro or "Spring Mix" salad from a grocery store. Some white mushrooms. A bit of boiled chicken breast (low fat, without salt) or a piece of hard boiled egg. If you can find broadleaf plantain, mallow, dandelions without pesticides - this would be great too.
4. If you spray tank walls - be careful so water don't get on the basking bulb (they can explode). I guess, you don't spray and it's just a condensate on the photo but just in case.
5. If it's a mister hose on the wall - try not to use mister and pour water in enclosure corners (to keep coir moist).
6. If you use gauges to measure temperatures and humidity (I see them on the wall) - better get a cheap digital thermometer/hygrometer from a hardware store for more accurate readings.
7. The coil type UVB bulb in a narrow dome is not the best setup (it gives a narrow spot of UVB which may be too strong and hard get under). Also, mesh takes away significant amount of UVB and without a meter it's hard to guess what your guy actually gets. Straight tube fluorescent lamps (T5 type) are easier to set up safely. With daily outdoor sunbaths, you may just turn off the UVB bulb (UV index is high enough from 11AM to 5PM).
8. You can add some more hides or shady areas to the enclosure - potted safe plants, for example.

 

[Yoda_the_redfoot]

Thank you for the details!
You are doing great with care. And he looks beautiful and healthy!

You can make a few adjustments:
1. Ramped water dishes aren't 100% safe for hatchlings. There is a risk of flipping and drowning. A simple shallow non-glazed terracotta saucer, buried in substrate is a better option.
2. Instead of towels you can wrap mesh top with a tin foil with cuts for the lamp fixture. This should work better for retaining heat and humidity.
3. Add some variety to his diet: hibiscus leaves (not only flowers) - are a great source of calcium and fiber, other fruit like papaya and mango, opuntia cactus (aka "prickly pear" or "nopales", both fruit and pads). Mulberry or young grape leaves are good foods as well. Radicchio, chickory, endive, kale, cilantro or "Spring Mix" salad from a grocery store. Some white mushrooms. A bit of boiled chicken breast (low fat, without salt) or a piece of hard boiled egg. If you can find broadleaf plantain, mallow, dandelions without pesticides - this would be great too.
4. If you spray tank walls - be careful so water don't get on the basking bulb (they can explode). I guess, you don't spray and it's just a condensate on the photo but just in case.
5. If it's a mister hose on the wall - try not to use mister and pour water in enclosure corners (to keep coir moist).
6. If you use gauges to measure temperatures and humidity (I see them on the wall) - better get a cheap digital thermometer/hygrometer from a hardware store for more accurate readings.
7. The coil type UVB bulb in a narrow dome is not the best setup (it gives a narrow spot of UVB which may be too strong and hard get under). Also, mesh takes away significant amount of UVB and without a meter it's hard to guess what your guy actually gets. Straight tube fluorescent lamps (T5 type) are easier to set up safely. With daily outdoor sunbaths, you may just turn off the UVB bulb (UV index is high enough from 11AM to 5PM).
8. You can add some more hides or shady areas to the enclosure - potted safe plants, for example.

Ok thanks so much for the help. But my main concern is really that his shell is soft will it just eventually go away or is it something I will have to fix my self? As for his shell is the uvb the reason it has gone soft? Is there a way I can make the uvb light get to him better, perhaps a different light setup?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Yes, I understand. If the shell is not "squishy" but has a bit of elasticity - this will go away as he grows. Your care of him is good enough, so I wouldn't worry.

Sometimes, shell gets soft and softer because of renal failure or blooming worms infestation. In that case you need a good vet. You usually see reduce in weight, appetite and activity in these cases.

I'll call @ZEROPILOT to check that I'm not missing something (thanks in advance!)

 

[Yoda_the_redfoot]

Yes, I understand. If the shell is not "squishy" but has a bit of elasticity - this will go away as he grows. Your care of him is good enough, so I wouldn't worry.

Sometimes, shell gets soft and softer because of renal failure or blooming worms infestation. In that case you need a good vet. You usually see reduce in weight, appetite and activity in these cases.

I'll call @ZEROPILOT to check that I'm not missing something (thanks in advance!)

Ok, I don’t think he has worms as he is very active and eats daily also has been gaining weight not loosing.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Ok thanks so much for the help. But my main concern is really that his shell is soft will it just eventually go away or is it something I will have to fix my self? As for his shell is the uvb the reason it has gone soft? Is there a way I can make the uvb light get to him better, perhaps a different light setup?

Lack of UVB can be the reason if his shell is softer than before (sorry, it wasn't 100% clear from your initial post). UVB and correct temperatures are required to synthesize vitamin D3 which is needed for proper calcium ingestion. Tortoises aren't good at absorbing D3 from foods (and at the same time there is a risk of overdosing D3).

Better option for the UVB light is a fluorescent tube. And, perhaps, the best ones on the market are Arcadia ProT5 kits (long-lasting and have predictable UVB output). Which one to use (Forest 6% or Desert 12% lamps) depends on your terrarium height. For Desert lamps with higher UVB output mounting height should be about 20" above substrate (without mesh in-between). What are your terrarium dimensions?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Ok, I don’t think he has worms as he is very active and eats daily also has been gaining weight not loosing.

That's good to know! Steady growth is usually the sign of a healthy hatchling.

 

[Yoda_the_redfoot]

Lack of UVB can be the reason if his shell is softer than before (sorry, it wasn't 100% clear from your initial post). UVB and correct temperatures are required to synthesize vitamin D3 which is needed for proper calcium ingestion. Tortoises aren't good at absorbing D3 from foods (and at the same time there is a risk of overdosing D3).

Better option for the UVB light is a fluorescent tube. And, perhaps, the best ones on the market are Arcadia ProT5 kits (long-lasting and have predictable UVB output). Which one to use (Forest 6% or Desert 12% lamps) depends on your terrarium height. For Desert lamps with higher UVB output mounting height should be about 20" above substrate (without mesh in-between). What are your terrarium dimensions?

I’m not sure, I do know that it’s a 40 gallon tank also even if I buy a better uvb source the mesh will still be in the way so how should I go appon doing this do I need a whole new cover lid or with the new uvb light will it not matter

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I’m not sure, I do know that it’s a 40 gallon tank also even if I buy a better uvb source the mesh will still be in the way so how should I go appon doing this do I need a whole new cover lid or with the new uvb light will it not matter

Fine mesh filters around 30% of UVB. Standard 40 gallon terrariums are 18" tall. Substrate thickness is 3-4" (estimate from the photo).

We have two options: fix Forest 6% lamp under the mesh (it's less flexible) or get Desert 12% lamp and put it on the mesh top (this gives some room for adjustments and this lamp can be reused in a larger enclosure). You will need the shortest tube (22") and a timer socket to set it for 4 hours in a day.

 

[Yoda_the_redfoot]

Fine mesh filters around 30% of UVB. Standard 40 gallon terrariums are 18" tall. Substrate thickness is 3-4" (estimate from the photo).

We have two options: fix Forest 6% lamp under the mesh (it's less flexible) or get Desert 12% lamp and put it on the mesh top (this gives some room for adjustments and this lamp can be reused in a larger enclosure). You will need the shortest tube (22") and a timer socket to set it for 4 hours in a day.

Ok thank you so much, just one more question from when to when should the four hour period be for it to be on, and with this bulb do I still need the heat light to?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

1. From 10AM to 2PM (matching sun UV peak). But may need correction to tortoise behaviour. If he basks at 9AM, timer should include this time.
2. Yes, flourescent tubes don't provide heat, so they should be used with basking lamps. Basking lamp should be on 12 hours a day.

Please, keep us updated!

 

[Yoda_the_redfoot]

1. From 10AM to 2PM (matching sun UV peak). But may need correction to tortoise behaviour. If he basks at 9AM, timer should include this time.
2. Yes, flourescent tubes don't provide heat, so they should be used with basking lamps. Basking lamp should be on 12 hours a day.

Please, keep us updated!

Ok, thanks for all the help I’m truly sorry but I do have one last question, which is when I weigh him he will be 72 grams and then the next day he will all of a sudden be 68 grams but he usually goes back up is this bad or is it normal?

 

[Ink]

So your tortoise is in a 40 gallon glass tank? How much calcium do you give him? Daily?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

It's normal Their weight may go up and down a little if they eat, poo and so on. Try to weight him at the same time each week, before or after feeding, for example. On average you should see steady growth from week to week.

Feel free to ask any questions That's what this forum for

 

[Yoda_the_redfoot]

So your tortoise is in a 40 gallon glass tank? How much calcium do you give him? Daily?

Yes he is in a 40 gallon tank as he is not even 5 months old and is only about 3 inches long and 2 wide I am planing on getting him a bigger enclosure as he gets older, I give him calcium every other day, I’m now going to start giving it to him only 2-3 days a week