Sleeping all day

penpolice

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Hi. My adult mesopotamian greek tortoises are sleeping all day. Recently the number of inactive tortoises is increasing. Day temp is about 25c and night temp is about 15~17c. They can use direct sun light from the opened windows. Three basking spots are positioned. Very few of them are very active and eating very well but rest of them are inactive and just sleeping all day. Although I put them front of the food, they eat very well. What's the problem with them? I attached some photos of my enclosure. Check them all right. Thank you.
 

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wellington

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Very nice enclosure, but an awful lot of torts in it of all sizes. What is the basking temps? They need to bask under a 95-100F temps to digest food
Also be sure to check temps at tort level.
What size is the enclosure and how many torts in it?
My first guess would be basking not hot enough and second guess would be a lot of stressed out tortoises being in such a large group.
I don't keep that many so let's see if the over crowding is a problem.
@HermanniChris
 

penpolice

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Very nice enclosure, but an awful lot of torts in it of all sizes. What is the basking temps? They need to bask under a 95-100F temps to digest food
Also be sure to check temps at tort level.
What size is the enclosure and how many torts in it?
My first guess would be basking not hot enough and second guess would be a lot of stressed out tortoises being in such a large group.
I don't keep that many so let's see if the over crowding is a problem.
@HermanniChris
The basking temp is about 37c. There are 58 greek tortoises in that enclosure. I'm building new enclosure now but It's not finished yet. Are there too many tortoises in that enclosure? Oh, the enclosure size is about 50m²(82x82feet?). If threre are too many, I will divide into appropriate numbers. How many tortoises are correct number in that size?
 

wellington

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The basking temp is about 37c. There are 58 greek tortoises in that enclosure. I'm building new enclosure now but It's not finished yet. Are there too many tortoises in that enclosure? Oh, the enclosure size is about 50m²(82x82feet?). If threre are too many, I will divide into appropriate numbers. How many tortoises are correct number in that size?
Wait for those with a lot more tortoises to respond. Your temps all seem good.
Maybe if you figure a 4x8 foot enclosure is recommended for one. So 32 square feet per tort or 1856 square feet for all 58.
If your enclosure is really 82x82 feet you would have or 6500 square feet and more then enough room.
 

wellington

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Couple things that might help is a bunch of sight barriers, bushes/plants that block the tortoises from being able to see down to other parts of enclosure. Also more feeding stations where a smaller group could eat from instead of all at the same place.
I would change out the water dishes for bigger flatter ones that they can easily get into and soak if they wanted.
 

harrythetortoise

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Hi. My adult mesopotamian greek tortoises are sleeping all day. Recently the number of inactive tortoises is increasing. Day temp is about 25c and night temp is about 15~17c. They can use direct sun light from the opened windows. Three basking spots are positioned. Very few of them are very active and eating very well but rest of them are inactive and just sleeping all day. Although I put them front of the food, they eat very well. What's the problem with them? I attached some photos of my enclosure. Check them all right. Thank you.
Has the temperature recently dropped in South Korea? If so, the drop in the ambient temperature might be what's making them sluggish.
 

Yvonne G

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What a nice space you've made for the tortoises! It's in a greenhouse, right? Some material that greenhouses are made of don't allow the UVB to penetrate through, so do you have a good UVB light somewhere in the enclosure?
 

Markw84

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The basking temp is about 37c. There are 58 greek tortoises in that enclosure. I'm building new enclosure now but It's not finished yet. Are there too many tortoises in that enclosure? Oh, the enclosure size is about 50m²(82x82feet?). If threre are too many, I will divide into appropriate numbers. How many tortoises are correct number in that size?
A few things you might consider:

Your conversion of measurements is way off. 50 m² is just over 500 sq ft. And from your photos, it does appear your enclosure is about 24' x 24'. That is quite small for 59 tortoises. Especially the way it is set up, there is really no place for them to feel secure. They need places they can hide and feel secure from other tortoises. The fake plants you have provided look nice to your eye, but they do nothing for the tortoise as far as providing cover. They need low hanging branches they can hide beneath. Or covered hides they can crawl into scattered in different places within the enclosure. Sight barriers as mentioned above will add greatly to a feeling of some separation for them.

An enclosure that size and of that material is difficult to heat to proper levels to create good "summer" activity for these tortoises. The ground temperatures are going to provide the main temperature levels for a tortoise and no matter what type of overheat heat you provide, you will still have to deal with ground temperatures your tortoises are experiencing. Get an IR heat gun and check the temperature of your tortoise and the ground upon which they are resting. I will bet it is way too cold to support proper activity and causing the inactivity you see.

Most greenhouse material does indeed block any UVB which is necessary for good metabolic function. The few hanging fluorescent fixtures you do have if they are UVB fixtures are mounted in a way that will provide little if any UVB of appropriate levels. The amount and intensity of UV is one of the triggers for circannual rhythms and your tortoises are living in what they may well percieve as perpetual winter lighting.

Testudo species tend to be quite territorial. Males are combative. I would think separating into smaller breeding groups of perhaps 2.8 by species/subspecies would be a much better approach, or even having some separate enclosures for females with rests from male activity.
 

Sarah2020

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Wow I have never seen so many tortoise together in a private enclosure! They need larger water dishes (try large flower pot bases) that they can climb in and soak and drink hydration is very important and they look dry are you soaking them in warm shallow water? I agree with site barrier try using large rain water guttering the smaller ones will have fun going up and down and they can not see end to end the enclosure and also some low rocks. Try wetting the food you provide it looks dry.
Read the care sheet. I also think substrate is needed can you see if you can buy orchid bark which you can spray to provide some humidity.
Let us know how you get on this is a great forum for help and ideas.
 

penpolice

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Couple things that might help is a bunch of sight barriers, bushes/plants that block the tortoises from being able to see down to other parts of enclosure. Also more feeding stations where a smaller group could eat from instead of all at the same place.
I would change out the water dishes for bigger flatter ones that they can easily get into and soak if they wanted.
Thank you for advice. I will plant many bush things for offering sight barriers and hides. I have changed water dish more lager than prior one. I also concerned about the humidity level of my country. Yesterday night humidity is 86%. Daytime 34% because of sunlight. I think nigttime humidity is too high for mesopotamian greek tortoises. Is it okay for them? If not, how do you think I make the large thermo regulated shelter for nighttime?
 

penpolice

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Has the temperature recently dropped in South Korea? If so, the drop in the ambient temperature might be what's making them sluggish.
Yes. Summer is coming soon but recently night temperature is dropped at 10c. But day temp is about 25~35c. I'm worried about that huge gap of temps are harmful for my torts. If I don't wake them up, they are sleep all day. Very few of them are moving around and eat some their food.
 

penpolice

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What a nice space you've made for the tortoises! It's in a greenhouse, right? Some material that greenhouses are made of don't allow the UVB to penetrate through, so do you have a good UVB light somewhere in the enclosure?
I have some uvb light but Nowadays I open up windows and doors for direct sunlight.
 

penpolice

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A few things you might consider:

Your conversion of measurements is way off. 50 m² is just over 500 sq ft. And from your photos, it does appear your enclosure is about 24' x 24'. That is quite small for 59 tortoises. Especially the way it is set up, there is really no place for them to feel secure. They need places they can hide and feel secure from other tortoises. The fake plants you have provided look nice to your eye, but they do nothing for the tortoise as far as providing cover. They need low hanging branches they can hide beneath. Or covered hides they can crawl into scattered in different places within the enclosure. Sight barriers as mentioned above will add greatly to a feeling of some separation for them.

An enclosure that size and of that material is difficult to heat to proper levels to create good "summer" activity for these tortoises. The ground temperatures are going to provide the main temperature levels for a tortoise and no matter what type of overheat heat you provide, you will still have to deal with ground temperatures your tortoises are experiencing. Get an IR heat gun and check the temperature of your tortoise and the ground upon which they are resting. I will bet it is way too cold to support proper activity and causing the inactivity you see.

Most greenhouse material does indeed block any UVB which is necessary for good metabolic function. The few hanging fluorescent fixtures you do have if they are UVB fixtures are mounted in a way that will provide little if any UVB of appropriate levels. The amount and intensity of UV is one of the triggers for circannual rhythms and your tortoises are living in what they may well percieve as perpetual winter lighting.

Testudo species tend to be quite territorial. Males are combative. I would think separating into smaller breeding groups of perhaps 2.8 by species/subspecies would be a much better approach, or even having some separate enclosures for females with rests from male activity.
Thank you for advice. I will build more spacious house for them and plant a variety of bush thing. As you said the ground temp is too low for them. It is about 15c. Very first time when they came here, males are very beany. So they always chasing females and mounting all day. But nowadays I have not seen any behaviour like that. They are just walk around and eat some. Recently females are butting and mounting to other tortoises. And two females laid eggs. I have four eggs in my incubator. But recently they are all sleeping. Yesterday night temp is 10c. Are they going to hibernating? and I'm really worried about humidity level. Night humidity is about 86%. Day humidity is about 20~40%. Is it okay for my mesopotsmian greek tortoise? I heard they came from jordan. I think that place is very arid. I feel so tragedy because my torts are suffering beacuse of my fault.
 

wellington

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I think you need to give some heat at night if it's getting that low. That cold and high humidity is a problem and can cause illness. 60F is the lowest it should go. I would go higher because of the higher humidity, maybe 70F at night. Adding night heat will lower the humidity. As it gets warmer in your area and nights stay warmer then you can turn the heat off at night as long as your nights stay above 60F
 

penpolice

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You might think about separating them into 3 or 4 smaller groups instead of one big group. Small groups would be easier to watch for behavior problems and illnesses. In a small group an illness could only spread to that small group instead of the whole bunch.
Okay. I will seperate them into small group. Thank you so much!
 

Sarah2020

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Have a read of the care sheet it may give you some extra inspiration. Humidity is good for smooth shell growth but diet, environment, heat, light and water are all important. Send some updated pics once you make changes there may be more ideas. Are you adding calcium and any extra vitamins to their diet to help shell growth?

Caresheet
 

penpolice

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Have a read of the care sheet it may give you some extra inspiration. Humidity is good for smooth shell growth but diet, environment, heat, light and water are all important. Send some updated pics once you make changes there may be more ideas. Are you adding calcium and any extra vitamins to their diet to help shell growth?

Caresheet
I have changed some like attached photos. I'm using calcium and vitamins with every meal. Vit.D3 with calcum is used two days in week. Check those photos and advice please. Thank you!
 

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Sarah2020

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This looks good to me lots of hiding and look an interesting place to live! Suggest more water dishes and refreshed regularly as they mess them up. They do not like change so let them settle in and see if this improves for you. Check heat,light is as per care sheet.
 

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Really neat to see so many all in one place. It looks like you may have a few of a different subspecies, or at a minimum, from a different locale. These look to be the old T.g. floweri subspeices. 10 C is too cold for theses torts. This locale of T.g. terrestris does not brumate, so they need to be kept above 15 C at night.

Did you import all these at once or in groups? Did you get them recently or have you had them for a while?

I would worry about disease with so many wild caught tortoises. How are the nares looking?
 
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