Russian Tortoise Enclosure

[CathyNed]

Hi everyone. I am looking to improve my tort enclosure and was looking for some help. I have a Russian. I was told he was about 20 when i got him from pet shop?!? His carpace is 120 x 85. And ive had him about 8 years. Ill give you a run down on what he has.....what i intend to do and from there im willing to take on any advice....

At the moment he is in a 4 x 2 x 2 vivarium type enclosure. Wood all round with glass front. I get the feeling these types are not ideal. I could take off front glass and block off the bottom section with wood so he cant get out and leave top setion open? Would that be better?

Substrate: i used peat before and he was tempted to eat it. i am currently using repti bark. It is 100% fir bark. Should it be wet/moist/dry? Should i mix peat or coconut coir with it as a better substrate?

Lighting: I am currently using an exoterra 50w daylight basking spot and a 13w reptile uvb 150. Both lamps are about 8 inches away. I have bought a 24" tube 20w 10.0 repti glo bulb that i intend to replace the 13w reptile uvb 150 and am just waiting on the fixture which will be delivered tuesday. I want to order a cha bulb for night time. What would people recommend? I presume cha bulbs need ceramic fixture? I have a heat mat that i leave on day and night under substrate but im thinking its pretty useless and should be thrown out based on reports. When all are fitted i intend to have the 24"tube running along centre of enclosure with basking at one end and cha at other. Does that seem right?

I put him out in the garden when there are good temps but in Ireland that is not often enough.

Is it a good/bad idea to plant some of the tesudo mix in a tray and when it comes up bury the tray in the enclosure level with substrate?

 

[CathyNed]

 

[CathyNed]

This is the 24" tube info

 

[CathyNed]

All suggestions /ideas welcom...

 

[Tom]

All suggestions /ideas welcom...

There is a lot to touch on here:
1. First, stop using the coil bulb ASAP. I'm talking about the 13 watt one. You tortoise will be fine until the long tube type one is installed.
2. I would not use a 50 watt spot. You need a larger basking area, and those "spot" bulb concentrate to much heat in one small area. I like to use 65 watt "flood" bulbs from the hardware store.
3. For the bulb in #2, you need to use your thermometer to set the height. It should be 95-100 at the height of the top of the tortoises shell. You can adjust the height, use a different wattage, or run it through a rheostat to get the correct basking temperature. And yes, you will need a ceramic based fixture for this bulb and the CHE, if you decide you need one of those after reading #4...
4. How cold is your house at night? A russian/Horsfield should not need hight heat unless your house is dipping below 15C at night.
5. Vivarium style enclosures work very well. They contain all the heat and humidity where you want it: In the enclosure with the tortoise, not circulating in the room. The main issue with them for older tortoises is that they are much too small. Your tortoise should ideally be living in something around 244x122cm. Like a sheet of plywood. They need a lot of room to roam. In the wild they will sometimes wander for miles.
6. Your Testudo seed mix in a tray idea is PERFECT! Grow several trays at a time and switch them out as needed.
7. Fine grade orchid bark (AKA "Repti-Bark") is the best substrate for adult russians in my experience, so you've done great there. Yes, keep it damp. But not wet. And no need to add anything to it.

All of this and more is elaborated upon in these two threads:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

 

[CathyNed]

There is a lot to touch on here:
1. First, stop using the coil bulb ASAP. I'm talking about the 13 watt one. You tortoise will be fine until the long tube type one is installed.
2. I would not use a 50 watt spot. You need a larger basking area, and those "spot" bulb concentrate to much heat in one small area. I like to use 65 watt "flood" bulbs from the hardware store.
3. For the bulb in #2, you need to use your thermometer to set the height. It should be 95-100 at the height of the top of the tortoises shell. You can adjust the height, use a different wattage, or run it through a rheostat to get the correct basking temperature. And yes, you will need a ceramic based fixture for this bulb and the CHE, if you decide you need one of those after reading #4...
4. How cold is your house at night? A russian/Horsfield should not need hight heat unless your house is dipping below 15C at night.
5. Vivarium style enclosures work very well. They contain all the heat and humidity where you want it: In the enclosure with the tortoise, not circulating in the room. The main issue with them for older tortoises is that they are much too small. Your tortoise should ideally be living in something around 244x122cm. Like a sheet of plywood. They need a lot of room to roam. In the wild they will sometimes wander for miles.
6. Your Testudo seed mix in a tray idea is PERFECT! Grow several trays at a time and switch them out as needed.
7. Fine grade orchid bark (AKA "Repti-Bark") is the best substrate for adult russians in my experience, so you've done great there. Yes, keep it damp. But not wet. And no need to add anything to it.

All of this and more is elaborated upon in these two threads:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Thanks a million Tom. I was hoping you would pop in. You seem to be a source of very good info. Will get the seed trays started asap. With regards to coil bulb is the danger regarding torts eyesight or are there other problems. My russian is unwell and ive been checking over the husbandry to try and source the problem. Ive posted in the tortoise health section entitled sick russian tort if you want to have a look and see what you think.

Will i ditch the heat mat asap.
Ok ill have a look for a flood bulb 65 watt online.lights in my enclosure hang about 8 inches from torts shell so if i get that type of bulb and test for temps will that and the 24" tube type be adequate light/heat. Regarding che i assume they come in various strengths. Temp may drop below 15 but not muh so wont need anything too high. Is it ok to swap out the bulbs flood bulb to che at night or should i set up another fixture. Any particular brand of thermometer/thermostat you would recommend, click type?

 

[CathyNed]

Pet shops around here (ireland) give terrible advice.....

 

[Tom]

I would not recommend a heat mat, so I think you've made a good decision there.

Your new 24" tube will only make light and UV, very little heat, so you will still need the heat lamps.

I would run the CHE in its own fixture in addition to the other two bulbs. If you set the thermostat to somewhere around 18-19C, it will keep things warmer day and night for you, without getting things too hot. Mount this fixture over the middle, and the basking bulb over one end.

I use and recommend both of these thermostat, but I don't know what is available over there:
http://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller
https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/MTPRTC

 

[Tom]

Pet shops around here (ireland) give terrible advice.....

It is that way in most of the world. There seems to be a big difference of opinion between people who actually keep and raise tortoises and the people who don't, but sell them all day. Imagine that.

 

[CathyNed]

Sorry about the lights again.... tube holder will arrive tomorrow or tuesday. The tube bulb i pictured says 33% uva 10% uvb. Is that ok for russians uva uvb needs. Would you place this tube centrally on the ceiling of viv or more towards the back wall.

Basking flood will be on the left... mat removed.

Che should be central or can it be on the left of viv? Im just wondering regarding space with che and tube?

Uva tube and flood on for about 12 hours ya? Che then coming on when basking goes out?

Sorry lighting is a minefied. Wanna make sure its bot causing my torts problem

 

[CathyNed]

It is that way in most of the world. There seems to be a big difference of opinion between people who actually keep and raise tortoises and the people who don't, but sell them all day. Imagine that.

Sorry about the lights again.... tube holder will arrive tomorrow or tuesday. The tube bulb i pictured says 33% uva 10% uvb. Is that ok for russians uva uvb needs. Would you place this tube centrally on the ceiling of viv or more towards the back wall.

Basking flood will be on the left... mat removed.

Che should be central or can it be on the left of viv? Im just wondering regarding space with che and tube?

Uva tube and flood on for about 12 hours ya? Che then coming on when basking goes out?

Sorry lighting is a minefied. Wanna make sure its bot causing my torts problem

 

[Tom]

Sorry about the lights again.... tube holder will arrive tomorrow or tuesday. The tube bulb i pictured says 33% uva 10% uvb. Is that ok for russians uva uvb needs. Would you place this tube centrally on the ceiling of viv or more towards the back wall.

Basking flood will be on the left... mat removed.

Che should be central or can it be on the left of viv? Im just wondering regarding space with che and tube?

Uva tube and flood on for about 12 hours ya? Che then coming on when basking goes out?

Sorry lighting is a minefied. Wanna make sure its bot causing my torts problem

Questions are good. Its fantastic the you ask them. The more you understand, the happier your tortoise will be.

I would mount the UV tube and the CHE both over the middle of the enclosure. Or approximately in the middle, where it is convenient over your particular enclosure.

That UV tube mounted at that distance should be fine. I would get a new one every fall.

Yes on the UV tube and flood for 12 hours. You might need to go to 13-14 hours in fall, if you don't want the tortoise to hibernate.

The CHE will be controlled by the thermostat 24/7. It will come on only when the temperature drops below your set point and go off when the temp is just above your set point. If the temperature never drops below your set point, it will never turn on. Sometimes in the mornings, both the basking bulb and the CHE might be on at the same time for a bit until the basking lamp warms things up after a chilly night.

 

[CathyNed]

Questions are good. Its fantastic the you ask them. The more you understand, the happier your tortoise will be.

I would mount the UV tube and the CHE both over the middle of the enclosure. Or approximately in the middle, where it is convenient over your particular enclosure.

That UV tube mounted at that distance should be fine. I would get a new one every fall.

Yes on the UV tube and flood for 12 hours. You might need to go to 13-14 hours in fall, if you don't want the tortoise to hibernate.

The CHE will be controlled by the thermostat 24/7. It will come on only when the temperature drops below your set point and go off when the temp is just above your set point. If the temperature never drops below your set point, it will never turn on. Sometimes in the mornings, both the basking bulb and the CHE might be on at the same time for a bit until the basking lamp warms things up after a chilly night.

Hi Tom...a couple more questions.... does the following cthermometer click and point look ok? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zoo-Med-FS...3&sr=1-8&keywords=reptile+digital+thermometer
Does this look like the thermostat you have....it comes with two different probes the one in pic and a long bar type one? Any preference?https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3UXTXY26MYLSA
Are these the bulb types you mentioned I should switch my basking to?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B52C8SE/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
Do you use these fixtures over bulbs?which ones and why?
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...e+light+fixture&sprefix=Reptile+light,aps,341

If I was to get a mercury vapor bulb what would that replace in my lighting list?
Just trying to set up properly. Thanks in advance...

 

[Tom]

Hi Tom...a couple more questions.... does the following cthermometer click and point look ok? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zoo-Med-FS...3&sr=1-8&keywords=reptile+digital+thermometer
Does this look like the thermostat you have....it comes with two different probes the one in pic and a long bar type one? Any preference?https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3UXTXY26MYLSA
Are these the bulb types you mentioned I should switch my basking to?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B52C8SE/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
Do you use these fixtures over bulbs?which ones and why?
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_ime_i_1_13?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=reptile+light+fixture&sprefix=Reptile+light,aps,341

If I was to get a mercury vapor bulb what would that replace in my lighting list?
Just trying to set up properly. Thanks in advance...

These are good questions.

1. The infrared thermometer is good. I have two of those and they work fine.

2. I don't have any experience with that thermostat, but it looks like it will work. I didn't see the wattage it can handle listed anywhere. Make sure it can handle double the load you intend to put on it, or more.

3. Yes. Those are the exact same basking bulbs I use. Same brand and everything.

4. Either of the Zilla 8.5 inch fixtures will work. There is a black one and a silver one. Both are fine.

5. If you were to get a MVB, it would replace the basking bulb and your UV tube. I think it best to use the basking bulb and UV tube. MVBs just have not proven reliable lately and apparently they now stop making UV in 3 months. Plus the UV tube will brighten up the whole enclosure.

 

[CathyNed]

These are good questions.

1. The infrared thermometer is good. I have two of those and they work fine.

2. I don't have any experience with that thermostat, but it looks like it will work. I didn't see the wattage it can handle listed anywhere. Make sure it can handle double the load you intend to put on it, or more.

3. Yes. Those are the exact same basking bulbs I use. Same brand and everything.

4. Either of the Zilla 8.5 inch fixtures will work. There is a black one and a silver one. Both are fine.

5. If you were to get a MVB, it would replace the basking bulb and your UV tube. I think it best to use the basking bulb and UV tube. MVBs just have not proven reliable lately and apparently they now stop making UV in 3 months. Plus the UV tube will brighten up the whole enclosure.

Thanks a million Tom. I'll stick with basking and tube so. About the tube...does it have to be mounted to the roof facing down or could it be mounted to the back or front wall at the top facing in?

Are the shades needed/serve a purpose or are they ornamental?

 

[Tom]

Either way of mounting is fine as long as it is close enough to the tortoise.

Shades are not needed, but reflector hoods direct more light where you want it. I recommend reflector hoods, especially with a regular 10.0 bulb like the one you've got.

 

[CathyNed]

Either way of mounting is fine as long as it is close enough to the tortoise.

Shades are not needed, but reflector hoods direct more light where you want it. I recommend reflector hoods, especially with a regular 10.0 bulb like the one you've got.

 

[CathyNed]

Either way of mounting is fine as long as it is close enough to the tortoise.

Shades are not needed, but reflector hoods direct more light where you want it. I recommend reflector hoods, especially with a regular 10.0 bulb like the one you've got.

Hi Tom. Im getting very high temp readings from the 50w basking spot lamp alright. If i get flood bulbs as mentioned above should i get lower wattage than 65w as the 50 w is giving off too much heat. Another strange question but where do i aim my thermometer to get temps... down at the substrate, down on my torts shell, just into the air in enclosure...

 

[Tom]

Hi Tom. Im getting very high temp readings from the 50w basking spot lamp alright. If i get flood bulbs as mentioned above should i get lower wattage than 65w as the 50 w is giving off too much heat. Another strange question but where do i aim my thermometer to get temps... down at the substrate, down on my torts shell, just into the air in enclosure...

I would not use the spot. The 65 watt flood will probably be just right in that situation. Raise or lower the fixture to get the right temperature under it. Or of that is not an option, use a rheostat to control the temperature.

I prefer to use a remote temp probe to check temps under the basking lamp. I let it sit there and cook for hours to really make sure the temp is correct under it. You also need to be checking at tortoise shell height. This will vary with the size of your tortoise. Infrared thermometers can still work for this application, but its best if you pint it at a solid surface. I use flat rocks under my basking lamps. This makes it easy, but different rock types and different colored rocks will give different readings. Darker rocks will get hotter. Take this all into consideration.

 

[CathyNed]

I would not use the spot. The 65 watt flood will probably be just right in that situation. Raise or lower the fixture to get the right temperature under it. Or of that is not an option, use a rheostat to control the temperature.

I prefer to use a remote temp probe to check temps under the basking lamp. I let it sit there and cook for hours to really make sure the temp is correct under it. You also need to be checking at tortoise shell height. This will vary with the size of your tortoise. Infrared thermometers can still work for this application, but its best if you pint it at a solid surface. I use flat rocks under my basking lamps. This makes it easy, but different rock types and different colored rocks will give different readings. Darker rocks will get hotter. Take this all into consideration.

Raising height of lamp is only possible if i cut out holes for bulbs/lamp in the wooden enclosure. Otherwise they cant be raised much more.to measure temp under basking spot do i point thermometer down at torts shell and measure temp or do i measure temp of substrate by pointing directly at substrate directly under lamp? Is it the tort/ the air or substrate i want at a temp of 100 ish. He is asleep 247 unless i touch/ lift him out of enclosure to give him a soak. I feed him directly after soak and he sleeps again