return to the wild program

[jojodesca]

Hello,

I have been reading posts on here about how ppl are so sad that box turtles are being taken from the wild, and they are scarce in the forests. I agree that this is sad...and I am wondering if there are groups out there who hatch and release back to nature....and if not why can't we start one up. Has anyone else ever given thought to this on TFO?..your thoughts?

 

[ascott]

A novel idea... Unfortunately government has their hands in this, therefore---it is not as easy as it should be.....

---

...in my opinion....

 

[turtlemann2]

well im not going to name any names but there are some possibly on this forum and others for sure on sites such as turtletimes.com and turtleforum.com who live in the native area of there boxies, and soon after hatching release there babies inside state parks, forest and wildlife areas. though i belive this is technicly illegal it is commendable : )

the main thing that a person who would want to do this would need to be concerned with would be to not cross contaminate your freshly hatched babies with anything that came into contact with your adults (due to possible disease issues) and to release the babies in a sutible area such as near a pile of leaves fallen logs near water etc soon after the yoke sack has been absorbed

Now for all the wildlife coppers out in the world wide web I dont do this simply because i dont live in their native habitat though if i did i porbibly would but wouldnt say anything about it... so im off the hook for any government agency oversight .. : )

so when i get my babies i can find good homes for them thus reducing the demand for WC specimens thats the only way i can contribute to the crisis of pet trade collection

 

[ascott]

the main thing that a person who would want to do this would need to be concerned with would be to not cross contaminate your freshly hatched babies with anything that came into contact with your adults (due to possible disease issues) and to release the babies in a sutible area such as near a pile of leaves fallen logs near water etc soon after the yoke sack has been absorbed

This is so dangerous to the wild populations already fighting to survive and find a way to thrive. I hope that you really do not participate in this type of behavior.

Now, please do not misunderstand me....I am all for there being guidelines in which to promote the survival of species at high risk for disappearing from this earth...however, not all people take cross contamination seriously let alone know exactly what that means. Also, stress alone can cause havoc, even with a quarantined tortoise/turtle.

Please reconsider this promotion. I beg of you.

 

[dmmj]

If I am not mistaken wild life rehabbers release the turtles that are injured that they rehabilitate back into the wild. As for releasing dozens or maybe hundreds of hatchlings back into the wild, I can see several problems, for instance you could release to many into one area then they would slowly die because of food issues.

 

[jojodesca]

This is a subject I plan to seek out some answers to and see if ppl do this, legally of course..There has to be some group that deals with conservation of certain species..

Disclaimer* I am only asking to gain knowledge of this subject, I have not participated in anyway of hatch and release.

 

[dmmj]

As an example the California desert tortoise can not be released back into the wild once taken out of the wild, but there are programs that head start them. They do it out in the desert and they do it as close to wild conditions as possible, and of course they do it with the government, in fact you can't do this without a specal permit and I don't know of anyone who does it privately.

 

[turtlemann2]

the main thing that a person who would want to do this would need to be concerned with would be to not cross contaminate your freshly hatched babies with anything that came into contact with your adults (due to possible disease issues) and to release the babies in a sutible area such as near a pile of leaves fallen logs near water etc soon after the yoke sack has been absorbed

I hope that you really do not participate in this type of behavior.

however, not all people take cross contamination seriously let alone know exactly what that means.

Also, stress alone can cause havoc, even with a quarantined tortoise/turtle.

Please reconsider this promotion. I beg of you.

i dont, i live all the way accross the country in oregon which is why my babies can be adopted which in turn reduces the amount of sales of WC specimens in petstores.

many groups do have breeding programs and release into the wild though you are completely right many people have no clue what it means to be steral and free of contamination.

stress really has little effect, the yoke sack is absorbed with in a few days, many breeders move there hatchlings from their incubators and into a resting tank where the hatchlings absorbe their yoke before being place on any substright or medium

im in NO way suggesting that a person raise a hatchling for even a few weeks before he or she released it (they need to be keep practicly human free for the few days before realease) i mean the moment their yoke is absorbed and weather conditions comply.

i will take back a portion of my "endorsment" but im just saying it happens i know of several people who do practice this, in fact one operates a rescue for wild turtles and the ones whom are deemed unable to release, well they still mate and lay eggs

this should not be undertaken by the timid of heart. and besides many of us want to keep our little guys because they are indeed so cute, in fact nothing cuter in my mind at least herpitogicly speaking : ) so most of us will keep our gift them to friends sell them, all in turn reduce the need for WC

 

[ascott]

I completely get it....wanting to put some back in their Wildlands...I really do. I only kinda freaked out because it should not be done just because it feels good.... There are loads of people that practice this type of destructive behavior and once again the wild suffers.

There are groups that are government based that set up rehab centers...however a large amount of testing and screening is done to help lessen the chance of an ailing tortoise/turtle being released back into the general population...

I had the opportunity ONCE in my life to participate with a fish and game rep to return a CDT to its Wildland.....it had strolled up onto a persons yard and played like a rock..the person spotted it and held it (apparently due to the persons yard was surrounded by fwy and Hwy) and called fish and game...he did not visit with it...he did not offer it food..he did nothing but place it in a shady spot...and he had done this about 45 minutes to an hour before we got there.

It was a beautiful tortoise...likely 20+ years old and had good weight to it...all of the physical checks were good and because there was zero exposure to other reptiles and it had not released any fluids and because it was found on its native area but near Hwy and fwy it could be moved back into the desert....which is awesome...however, it was the most nerve racking thing to have done...where to take him to..are there enough hiding spots...enough food items around....not a large amount of scat from predatory animals....west /east facing..are there off road vehicle trails around...does this look like a desirable off road area...all kinds of OCD moments....but it absolutely did "feel" awesome knowing that regal creature was not banished from where it belongs because of the actions of man...it was fabulous...

 

[Katherine]

I live in an area where the BTs I raise are native but almost completely gone from the wild- so of course this concept had crossed my mind before. Unfortunately even if you could hatch the eggs in a sterile environment, in addition to the fact that a 'domesticated' generation of turtle may not do well in the wild, there is also the issue of creating a genetic bottle neck. For example if I released a clutch of box turtles into the woods near my house, where there are no longer any naturally occurring box turtles, and they grew up and got sexually mature there their only option for building a new generation would be to inbreed. Even if I let several clutches from different parents go, without the presence of 'wild' box turtles I just do not feel there would be enough genetic variety to avoid an inevitable bottleneck. Just something to think about before you open the gate on your backyard pen.

Another thing I think is worth consideration is the reason the box turtles are no longer prevalent and the niche they have left open for alternate species. I am not by any means suggesting that it is natural or beneficial not to have wild box turtles- just that when a species decreases in population often times other animals are quick to move into their niche so it would be worth considering what types of creatures and flora would be displaced or affected (and how) before releasing our companion box turtles. Also, if the primary reason box turtles are not present in your area is human predation; we should definitely address this issue before assuming new releases would not meet the same fate.

I would love to start seeing more box turtles on hikes though the wooded areas by me, but I think (unfortunately) that the solution to demise of local native species is a lot more detailed than release of hatchlings. In my opinion, one of the most impactful and simplest things an individual could do to help the problem would be to treat their local flora and wildlife with the utmost respect/consideration and refuse to support the sellers of wild caught species.

 

[Jacqui]

Katherine makes for me most of my thoughts, so I don't have to write it all myself. Thank you! Just releasing them will do no good, if there is no place for them to survive out there, which is often why the adults are no longer found. Between man and the ever changing predator loads, survival just may not be in the cards.

 

[ripper7777777]

Great topic, I have thought about this myself and while I agree simply releasing captive born hatchlings isn't the answer, unless your looking to feed coyotes, it does seem like breeding programs could take place. There are lots of people interested in saving the box turtle. If these people were all organized under state run groups or state approved groups they could be utilized along with their resources to act as breeders. So say a Zoo starts the program that the state pays for, 50 volunteers care for and breed a species, at a certain age the babies are turned over for release into a large area run by the Zoo, say 2 to 5 acres setup for them, but a wild habitat or simulated wild, this would be a way to slowly prepare wild turtles.

The real problem is figuring out how to relocate box turtles without killing them, they don't like to be relocated. I'm sure this problem along with all the others can be over come and breeding/release programs could work, it has worked to save other species. The simple fact is, if we don't do something it won't be long before the only place we see Box turtles is in people's backyards. People can say save the forest all they want, that would be great, and is a great idea, I live in area destroyed by over development and will be leaving soon in disgust, but it is the way things are. But even if the habitats are preserved I think the export of wild turtles has already doomed the species.

I don't pretend to know all the answers, but I know the answers are out there and some maybe drastic, but I think we are getting close to drastic measure time.

 

[Jacqui]

I think the way to do it, is to keep the Government and states out of it. When they get involved you end up with more paperwork and resources (time, money, even people) being used in way that are not helpful to the project. I could see working along side of to some extent those folks, but not as a part of them. Such as working with them to allow the turtles to be released upon their lands.

 

[ripper7777777]

I think the way to do it, is to keep the Government and states out of it. When they get involved you end up with more paperwork and resources (time, money, even people) being used in way that are not helpful to the project. I could see working along side of to some extent those folks, but not as a part of them. Such as working with them to allow the turtles to be released upon their lands.

Agreed, it sounds great in theory but we all know gov. and state agencies only work in theory. It would be nice to use their lands.

Here in Houston we have several smaller parks that are wildlife areas, those would be great for such a re-population effort.

I'm currently working on how to repopulate the 3 acres my family bought, of course part of that land will be for housing humans, but the rest will be left wild.

 

[ascott]

Who would set the level of quality care and control for a facility to qualify as a reliable and trustworthy facility...what/who would be a means for enforcement of rules for a facility to be certain all rules and guidelines are being followed and met to assure healthy disease free animals are being released....who will do environmental impact tests to assure everyone is releasing where and what quantity is an acceptable sustainable population....if the government and federal agencies are going to be banished from the process that is??

 

[ripper7777777]

Well I don't think all gov. should be removed, it's only the higher ups that screw things up by dipping their hands into funds or clouding up the water with other laws tacked on.

Really this thing is like something a grant and a Zoo or Private party should handle, to make sure all the money is used properly.


and Really I think it should be more of a contained wild population, so we have an area or park that we know Box turtles may have once been there but have since disappeared due to man. So in reality they would still be captive but in a 5 acre pin.

Otherwise we would have to figure out how to make sure they are not gonna bring in new genetic problems or diseases that would harm the few remaining Box Turtles.

Other Captive breeding programs have wild caught, moved to large holding areas to encourage breeding and than released, keeping man and germs at bay.


Again I have no real idea how to solve the problem, but Habitat reform and laws won't do it, not all of it, Turtles breed when they run across each other, so if they don't run across each other they won't breed and if they do most hatchlings will be food. So having 5 box turtles in an acre doesn't mean lots of box turtles in 20 years.