Reptisun 5.0 HO or 10.0 HO for 6 month old Russian

[Onomatotia]

Hello!

I've been lurking for weeks, reading about and researching correct husbandry for Russian tortoises. I've read the baby Russian care sheet and many threads regarding everyone's experience with young Russians. So thank you everyone for the knowledge you've already imparted!

My husband and I are getting a tortoise from a forum member, Carol S. (thanks for everything Carol!), but are waiting on the weather to warm up so that shipping is safe. We live in Ohio and are in the dead of winter.

I'm setting up his indoor enclosure ahead of time to monitor temperatures, humidity, etc. so that we're ready to go when he finally gets here. He'll be spending the remainder of his babyhood in a 75 gallon aquarium (with the bottom few inches blacked out). When the weather permits, he will spend his days outside in a 10'x30' enclosure and come in the house at night. For now though, he's stuck inside. We will also be upgrading the size of his indoor enclosure once he gets a little larger.

Our original plan while using the aquarium was to use a MVB for UVB and basking and CHE on a thermostat to heat his humid hide. I have a few concerns with that setup though (we have a really curious cat who I don't want to ruin the bulb or burn down the house). I'm now leaning more towards using a regular flood light to bask, a waterproof heating pad on a thermostat under the burrow area to heat his humid hide, and a Reptisun 10.0 HO tube light in a Reptisun HO tank hood with Plexiglass or a modified screen top to cover the remaining opening. My question is this, will a UVB light that runs the entire length of the tank be overkill? The hood will be about 15-16" above the substrate. There will be no screen or mesh under the UVB tube. Would the Reptisun 5.0 HO bulb in the HO fixture be a better bet? I want to make him a cave/burrow out of half a pvc pipe covered in coco coir and plants. I want him to have a hide he can climb on and explore so that he doesn't lose any valuable floor space. On top of that hill I estimate the distance to the UVB will only be about 10".

Sorry for such a long post and I'm sorry if it seems redundant. I've been bothering poor Carol nonstop too! I just want to make sure that I'm doing everything to make this little guy a happy and healthy member of our family.

Thank you!

 

[Markw84]

10" would be way too close for a 10.0 HO. But there are several factors that needs to be known to really answer your question. So we want to be sure we know what we mean by the labels when we talk UVB bulbs as its easy to get confused, and without knowing ALL the factors, we cannot make any conclusions...

The FIXTURE is not HO. The BULB can be an HO (high output).
Fixtures are defined by size - both length and diameter of bulb it accepts.
A fixture can be of a length to fit best in your application. You don't need to have a fixture the whole length of the enclosure/tank. In fact, I prefer to have it about 1/2 the length of the enclosure giving a light gradient. A 75 gal tank is normally 48" long - so you could get a 24"/22" fixture for your tank that would work perfectly.
The size of bulb the fixture accepts is normally either T-5 or T-8 for our purposes. There are T-12 fixtures, but not used much in reptile enclosures anymore.
The T-5 is the brightest and most common for the best HO tubes now. A T-5 tube is about 1/2 inch in diameter.
The T-8 is a larger tube about 1" in diameter. You will find both offered for reptile application so you need to know which you are getting.

The HO refers to the bulb being a more powerful source of light vs a standard bulb of similar design, yet not designated "HO". So the HO indicates is a high output bulb compared to another otherwise similar bulb.

The 5.0 vs 10.0 can apply to ANY type fluorescent bulb. It simply means the light output of the bulb is either 10% in the UV spectrum, or 5% in the UV spectrum. So with what appears as the same brightness of light - to us looking at it - the 10.0 will be actually putting out 2x the UV.

The use of a HOOD on the fixture also dramatically changes things too. A mirror-type reflective hood will just about DOUBLE the amount of UV at tortoise level vs the same application without a reflective hood on the fixture.

This means...
T-8 bright
T-5 brighter/ more UV

Standard bright
HO brighter/ more UV

5.0 good UV
10.0 twice more UV

SO... IF you go with a 24" T-5 HO 5.0 with a reflector, you will probably be in about the proper UV range with the fixture at your 15-16" height. A T-5 HO 10.0 would normally be mounted about 22-24" above tortoise level.

DISCLAIMER... These are rough guidelines. You cannot know for sure without a UV meter to test the actual reading your installation produces. It is that same as stating a 100 watt flood bulb should give you 100F at 20". There is no way to know if that is actually happening in the enclosure without checking with a thermometer.

I know... TMI. But it might be useful to some as these questions come up frequently and not enough info is given.

 

[Tom]

Everything Mark said…

To simplify, 5.0 bulbs don't make much UV and I find them to be a waste of money. At 15-16" I think the 10.0 HO will work well for you. I would run it on a timer for about 3-4 hours mid day, and then run an additional regular florescent tube all day long with the basking bulb. This will simulate the bright mid day sun and UV spike.

On another note, I've met Carol and her husband and they are excellent wonderful human beings. I bought six babies from her a few years ago and they were all perfect! I could not have been happier. While I was there she gave me a bunch of seeds from one of her broadleaf plantain plants and I've been feeding plantain to my tortoises ever since. You will be thrilled with your healthy new baby.

 

[Onomatotia]

Thanks Mark!
Not TMI at all! I've read quite a few lighting posts and still wasn't exactly sure what I needed. There are so many variables and preferences.
My only other experience with reptiles is bearded dragons, and they need to be BLASTED with UVB. Their requirements are very different from a baby tortoise, so I wanted to clarify instead of assume I already knew what I was doing. I will eventually invest in a UV meter since the tortoise will be spending his winters indoors and will rely exclusively on artificial UVB. I tend to prefer very brightly lit rooms in my own habitat, so it didn't occur to me that maybe tortoises prefer a gradient.

Hello Tom!
Thank you for the input. I've read so many of your posts...It's like speaking to a legend!
Carol is wonderful and has been extremely helpful. She's promised to send me some plantain seeds as well!
I do like the idea of running the UVB for a short burst midday and using a regular fluorescent bulb all day long. Do you think there is any risk of the 10.0 being too strong with the reflector in the hood and the UVB running the entire length of the tank, even for a short period of time each day? If so, I could also use Mark's suggestion and get a shorter fixture to create a gradient.

How long should the secondary fluorescent be? I'll have to mess around with the placement of the two fluorescent fixtures, just to make sure that I have enough room for my basking light. Any creative solutions for that one? I've thought of scrapping the hood idea and returning to my first plan of suspending the lights right above the tank, but that feels less secure and we do have that very curious, pain in the butt cat I mentioned earlier.

This is the fixture I was looking at.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B39QGIW/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20"

There are so many options. What I need is a checklist of very specific things and someone to boss me around.

I appreciate the feedback from both of you!

 

[Markw84]

You may also want to check out lightyourreptiles.com. That is where I , and I believe Tom, gets most our UVB fixtures. That site is also a bit less expensive that what you referenced above. The fixture you reference is $57.50. By the time you add a good UVB tube, you're at $100. lightyourreptiles.com sells a great fixture with reflector hood and bulb for $97. It is an Arcadia, and I personally feel that brand is one of the best.

I too go with the two fluorescent fixtures as Tom mentions and have the UVB on 4-5 hours mid-day and the other on 14 hours.

I also think a 48" fixture - or two - will be a hard fit for your situation in a 48" tank. Perhaps a 24" or 36" length would work better, and give that light gradient. Save you some money as well!

 

[Tom]

T
I do like the idea of running the UVB for a short burst midday and using a regular fluorescent bulb all day long. Do you think there is any risk of the 10.0 being too strong with the reflector in the hood and the UVB running the entire length of the tank, even for a short period of time each day?

I don't think a 10.0 will be too strong at that distance, but ONLY a meter can verify that. Here is the one I use and recommend:
http://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html

Mark is correct. I do get my Arcadia lights and fixtures from Lightyourreptiles.com.

I like my bulbs to run the length of the enclosure, or close to it. As long as there are hides and areas where the tortoise can escape the light, I prefer to make daytime look like day time when they are indoors.

 

[Markw84]

BTW. Arcadia makes 6.0 and 12.0 instead of the 5.0 and 10.0 so they are a bit stronger on uv output.

 

[Onomatotia]

Thanks again Mark and Tom! I'm think I'm going to go with 36 inch fixtures to ensure that I have enough room to mount everything. I'll suspend them from wall brackets above the tank or maybe a grow light stand. I don't think it will be too difficult to modify a screen cover or piece of plexiglass to accommodate the UVB and still be secure enough to keep the cat from rolling around in the substrate.

I plan on buying a UV meter in the next few months, but I appreciate all of the advice to get me started and the recommendations. I'm not sure how you read a UV meter, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Thanks for the web address! I have heard/read so many great things about Arcadia brand, but I ignorantly thought it was only available from overseas. This is great!

Do you use full spectrum fluorescent tubes to supplement the basking light? I'm not sure if that's a stupid question or not... I know there are awful fluorescents that make you look horrible in dressing rooms, the better, but not much better, kind in my grandma's kitchen, and the kind used to grow plants, but outside of that I'm more of an incandescent bulb girl.

 

[Markw84]

A full spectrum tube would be a good choice. I try to get as natural a light as possible. That is where some of the cheaper tubes really suffer. They just don't produce a good light and tortoises are far more sensitive to a fuller range of light than humans are. I think a good grow light tube would be a good choice and benefit any plants you may choose to use in you enclosure. Call lightyourreptiles.com and talk with Todd. He is a great resource as a longtime reptile keeper himself who now tries to provide the best lighting choices he can find. That's why he carries Arcadia for example

 

[Onomatotia]

Perfect. I will do so. I really appreciate your patience and your advice Mark. Thanks so much for all of the information! You may see me again... you know, as more questions about other things pop up. I'm a nervous new mom...

 

[Onomatotia]

P.S. I meant to ask you. What type of tortoises do you keep??

 

[Markw84]

P.S. I meant to ask you. What type of tortoises do you keep??

I got my first tortoise in 1961!!!! That started it.

Currently I have a 26 yr old sulcata I got as a hatchling that the San Diego zoo hatched. I have another 145 lb sulcata I hatched out 19 yrs ago. A total of 8 sulcatas of various ages I have kept from ones I hatched over the years. I do have a few young leopard tortoises. More and more of my focus is now going to a group of 8 Burmese stars I acquired over the past year. Am really loving those tortoises. Beautiful and extremely personable.

I also have about 60 or so aquatic turtles of 13 different species (all N American species) I keep in a large outdoor pond I built

 

[Onomatotia]

Oh wow! I'm sure you have an enviable setup! Burmese stars are beautiful. I just looked them up!

I'm so jealous of your Sulcata gang. I love the larger species but my climate wouldn't be fair to them and I don't have the means to build an indoor oasis for something that size. A man who goes to my vet has a 38 year old Sulcata named Betty. She's his soul mate and has a huge indoor sunroom area for the winters. *sigh*

I've noticed that many people on this forum develop a tortoise habit. It's an addiction! I've always wanted a tortoise, so it may be a real problem for me to resist the magic. Think about how lucky my husband is! I can see myself with a horde of tortoises in 40 years saying, "Well kids...it all started in 2017 when your grandpa told me I could have one..."

 

[Markw84]

My 10 yr younger sister grew up with my science and reptile obsession and constant researching. So little was known and available back then. She says that is the genesis of her interest in science and research. Today she is one of the leading authorities on epigenetics in the world as a dr at Duke University research. She travels the world giving talks at major medical symposiums and has dozens of papers published in the major medical publications

My kids grew up with turtles and tortoises and all have a great appreciation of them

Now 9 grandkids love coming to the house and spending most of their time feeding the tortoises or watching the fish and turtles in the pond and fighting over who can feed them. At a recent reptile show my 6 yr old grandson amazed everyone in line telling everyone the names of all the poisonous snakes as we came to each cage.. look grandpa, a green mamba! And there's a black mamba. And an adder!!!!!

 

[Onomatotia]

Aww. Adorable. I'm glad that you're helping to build a new generation of conscientious, well informed stewards. Your family, both shelled and non-shelled, sounds amazing.

 

[leigti]

I definitely recommend the light your reptiles website. And they will give you suggestions as well if you give them all your measurements etc.
For my hatchling a Russian I use the 6% UVB T5 high output bulb and fixture. I keep it on 12 to 14 hours a day. Then I have a 6500 bulb for heat.

This is my basic set up for now. I tweak it now and then, for instants I moved the hide more to the warmer side and put in another hide on the cooler side. If I had to do something differently I would get a fixture that ran the entire Lankes of the enclosure. It was suggested that there should be a light gradient but I'm not sure I like it that way. But I'm sure it really doesn't make that big of a deal.
And I am definitely an advocate for getting a UV meter. I have the solar meter 6.5 and it is very handy.
Are use the 12% high output Arcadia bulbs for my adult Russian.

 

[Onomatotia]

Hello Leigti! Thanks for including the picture. This is very similar to what I would like to have in my 75 gal. once it's all set up. I'm going to call Light Your Reptiles tomorrow too see what they say. If you don't mind me asking, why do you use the 6% bulb with the hatchling and the 12% with the adult? Proximity of the light to the tortoise? Do you use a fixture with a reflector?

 

[leigti]

I wish I had a 75 gallon aquarium what are the dimensions of it? when Luka gets bigger I will put him in my 150 gallon stock tank for indoors. But for now I would lose him forever in there. Heck, I lose him in the little aquarium now. It is absolutely amazing how much they dig down and hide. Which makes me completely destroy the entire enclosure just trying to find him I think he does it to mess with me.
Yes, I use the 6% because it is closer to my tortoise. More like 12 to 13 inches. Where in the large enclosure for my adult it's about 17 inches.

 

[Onomatotia]

Aw. There he is! I couldn't find him in the first pic. The 75 gal. is 48x18x21 (l,w,h).

I've heard that Russians are pretty much canon balls with legs, stubborn and always looking for trouble. I assume that Luka buries himself so that he can laugh at your expense.

 

[leigti]

The second picture is my adult Yurik. This is Luka
He is a whopping 60 g as of yesterday in comparison, my adult is nearly 800 g.
Russians are great, not scared of anything, they run over or through whatever it happens to be in their way they will gladly rearrange the entire enclosure for you. Yurik especially likes knocking over the potted plant, eating it and digging out all the dirt and roots, then pushing the plastic pot all over the enclosure. It is a past time of hers I think. She can even do a pretty good job are rearranging the outdoor enclosure even though the furniture is a little bigger out there. Even the little hatchling doesn't seem scared of anything. And they eat like a little horses. They have so much more personality than you think they would