Redfoot Care. A bit confused.

[fifthdawn]

Hi, first time using this forum and I'm looking for some help.

I've done a load of research already and went over many caresheets.
Now its time to get the products. This is giving me alot of trouble.

1.) Humidifiers are a bit pricy and I've read many reports that they break or not work often. They seem nice visually(the fog effect) and convient. But I'm not sure I really need one. So from you're experiences, do you use a fogger or is spraying the moss daily enough to keep humidity up?

2.) I've read many conflicting caresheets for redfoots. Some say they live in or near rainforest and don't like light very much. I've also read they don't like UVB as much as other reptiles because of their natural habitats. Some raise their redfoots without UVB light claiming their diet, since they're omnivorous, provides enough D3 in greens and animal proteins.

I'm sort of going to go with the..they don't like light route..and try to follow the no UVB route...

But even then, for keeping heat up..should I use a heat emitter since they dont have any light output? It said its infrared light. I have no idea what that is, is it highly radioactive? Is it harmful for turtle or humans to be exposed to it too much?

3.) For any bulb or lighting, if I have a fogger or any equipment for humidity..will water build up on the bulb causing problems?

Thanks

 

[Redfoot NERD]

ONCE AGAIN IT WOULD HELP IF WE KNEW.. WHO - WHAT - WHEN - WHERE - HOW

READ.. and follow EVERY thing/link in my signature below! You will find chronological picture/video evidence of what following the CARE procedures' creates! [ can you do it other ways?.. sure! I get emails virtually everyday asking me how to UNDO what other ways have done to theirs ]

NERD

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Fifthdawn:

to the forum!!

Here are a couple of sites that I KNOW are ok. (These are MY recommendations, and are NOT from the forum)

http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/redfootcare.htm
http://www.turtletary.com/redfootcare.htm

The second one, turtletary.com, is one of our forum members and he has shown us pictures of babies he hatched and then the same tortoises again years later, showing healthy animals.

Yvonne

 

[Shalon]

Hi, first time using this forum and I'm looking for some help.

I've done a load of research already and went over many caresheets.
Now its time to get the products. This is giving me alot of trouble.

1.) Humidifiers are a bit pricy and I've read many reports that they break or not work often. They seem nice visually(the fog effect) and convient. But I'm not sure I really need one. So from you're experiences, do you use a fogger or is spraying the moss daily enough to keep humidity up?

2.) I've read many conflicting caresheets for redfoots. Some say they live in or near rainforest and don't like light very much. I've also read they don't like UVB as much as other reptiles because of their natural habitats. Some raise their redfoots without UVB light claiming their diet, since they're omnivorous, provides enough D3 in greens and animal proteins.

I'm sort of going to go with the..they don't like light route..and try to follow the no UVB route...

But even then, for keeping heat up..should I use a heat emitter since they dont have any light output? It said its infrared light. I have no idea what that is, is it highly radioactive? Is it harmful for turtle or humans to be exposed to it too much?

3.) For any bulb or lighting, if I have a fogger or any equipment for humidity..will water build up on the bulb causing problems?

Thanks

A lot of people just spray and it keeps the humidity up. Besides foggers they do make misters which you can set to go off at certain intervals. I don't have one so I can't say if they are worth the $$ or not. I just spray mine down with a water bottle.

A heat emitter is safe for you and your tortoise.

I haven't had any problems with water building up on the bulb and causing problems. I also haven't heard of it causing problems for anyone else, but I am sure if anyone has had an issue they will reply.

 

[terryo]

Welcome! I have followed Terry K's care sheets for over two years now and everything seems to be great with my Cherry Head. I have him in a planted vivarium, with a heat emitter on one side and a long tube light on the other side. When I water the plants, it keeps in the humidity. Also the care sheets for food is very easy to follow and even has pictures.

 

[fifthdawn]

Thanks, Terry K's website was one of the sites I came upon as well. I think I'll follow that method. Seems simple and convienant. But Terry keeps his turtle in a room specifically for the tortoise. I don't exactly have a room dedicated for one. It'll be in the living room. My house is heated so the temp is usually 70-80 degree ish. But the heat, like all heat, stops once it reaches a certain temp and doesn't turn back on till it reaches a certain low but even then, it shouldn't get to cold. I'm wondering if it matters if it fluxuate's from 65-85.

I live in Michigan. Since its by the lake, its pretty humid all around but its different in door. I'll start of spraying to save myself the money and if it doesn't work.. I'll try a mister/fogger. How often do you spray? Because of my schedule, 9am - 5 PM. Sometimes 9AM - 11PM. Would spraying once in morning and once when I get home be enough to keep humidity up? Also having heat on during the weather..would this make the air real dry? The reason I'm so worried about humidity is because its #1 in importance for RF care.

@TerryO- Are those real plants or fake plants? If they're real, what kind of plants do you use and do they usually end up eatting it?

@TerryK- It seems you still take you're turtle outside every once awhile. That might also be a source of Vit D3. Its getting colder now and I doubt I'll be able to take my RFs out for months. Is it still enough V3 through diet or should I use Calcium Sup with V3 during fall and winter seasons? Also is there any substitute for catfood that I could use?

 

[t_mclellan]

Hi & welcome!
I'm gona chime in on Terry K's behalf, although I'm sure he'll be here soon.
Terry only keeps his tort's inside in the winter. Other than that they are outside.
His care sheets are great!
If your home is dry in the winter try enclosing most but not all of the top.
If you use an aquarium, get a reptile lid for it & seal most of the screen with packing tape.
This will help keep humidity in. Spray / mist 1 or 2 times a day & that should be fine.
If you use a heat emitter, Then the temp. fluctuation should not be a problem.
As for light. You could get a florescent plant bulb (No heat).
If you follow TK's diet recommendations, Your RF will be fine.
Come spring build an outdoor enclosure for the warm months.
Good luck!

 

[fifthdawn]

I can't build an outdoor enclosure since I have people using the back yard to grow crops. Which is great, since I get free veggies to feed my tortoise. But theres no room to make it a summer home.

They're still small around 4'' only. When they get big, I plan on putting them in my basement. its not the typical..cold and damp type of basement. Its actually remodeled to be pretty clean. Theres kitchen bathroom bedroom etc in it. But either way, they're not outside so no sun light.

So my biggest concern is that maybe Terry's tortoise didn't need V3 because of the ocassional outdoor enclosure. If I just can't provide it. Should I get a UV lamp? or use Calc+V3 supplement. Or would it be okay just sticking with his diet?

 

[terryo]

All the plants are real...helps so much with keeping in the humidity. I keep some of them in little pots and just water into the pot that is burried in the substrate,and once a day I spray the plants in the AM when he comes out to eat....I also spray him until he drips. Be careful, because I have found that if the substrate is too wet, he will get shell fungus, so that's why I just water into the little plant pot. He never eats the plants, because he is really well fed. He will eat certain plants though because he seems to know they are in there for him. He loves pansies and when I put one in he will eat it right down to the ground. Also sometimes I throw in some Spring Mix seeds and he will eat the little sprouts. Most are just tropical house plants. He really loves to sit under them especially after I spray them. I keep him in the living room because I like to see what he is doing and interact with him. Also the planted vivarium looks so pretty in there.

 

[fifthdawn]

Ah I see. Sorry if this seems like one question leading to another...

Do you completely bury the pot? Because if you do, it would seem your substrate must be pretty deep. Or is the pot only partially buried? If its possible could you post a picture of your tortoise's home?

And how long do your potted plants live without UV?

 

[terryo]

Just read your last post....you don't have to have a big enclosure...maybe you could just get a big Christmas Tree storage bin and put some plants in it with a hide and a little water dish, and put it in partial sun for some part of the day for just a little sun during the warm months. That's what I did the first year I had mine. He was too little to be left out alone and in a big enclosure so this really did work for me. You can bring it in at night....even if he just gets a little sun during the summer it will help.

 

[fifthdawn]

Ah very nice. Thanks.

 

[terryo]

When he is inside, on one side I have a long tube UVB light. And on the other side a heat emitter. I always used the long tube light, because when I first read the care sheet he said to put a long tube light, and I thought he meant UVB, so I never did anything different. It can't hurt and does well for the plants. For the substrate I use potting soil with Forest Floor (100 % Cyprus mulch) and when he was younger I put some green reptile moss on the top. I don't put that now that he is bigger. It is about 6 in. deep. He is in a 75 gal. planted vivarium. I tried all the tortoise tables, and plastic tubs, but nothing kept in the humidity because I have dry heat here, so then I started using a glass tank. As he got bigger I upgraded and now he's in the 75 gal. Lots of people don't like the glass vivs, but I like it and it looks good too.

This is one side...the plants are along the outside there.There was a few pansies in the back, but he ate them, so I have to replace some on that side.

The water dish is in the middle and the hide is on the other side.

I'm not saying it's the right way to do it. I'm just saying it is what worked for me.

 

[Madkins007]

Your tortoises really don't particularly care HOW you get them humid and hydrated, as long as they stay warm enough (a lot of foggers, misters, etc. cool the water by several degrees), and they don't have to stay in contact with wet surfaces (especially when sleeping).

For most of us in the deadly winter temps and low-indoor humidity zone, like here in Omaha, part of the answer usually means trapping the warm, humid air instead of it constantly moving up and away from the tortoises. Covering some of your habitat helps, even if it is only thin plastic wrap or something. (Covering all of it helps with temps and humidity, but also makes for bad air, full of germs, mold, and stink.)

You've got a lot of options.

- Hand spraying is all many people need. Usually just a couple times a day. It helps if you can stir the substrate so the wetter bottom layer is brought to the top, and the whole thing is more evenly misted.
- Live plants add humidity, interest, hiding places, food, and more. They also help deal with air quality issues if you have any. You can either plant them in the habitat, or leave them in pots, or whatever. Try to use plants that have never been treated with chemicals.
- Mechanical sprayers, misters, bubblers, etc. There are some good ones out there, and you can make a decent unit easily enough from plans online. Each style has its own pros and cons.
- Bottom warmth. Depending on your situation, gently warming the bottom of your habitat, or the soil in your habitat, to about 85ish- if you can do it safely- offers a lot of benefits- mostly, warmth and humidity right at the tortoise's level. You still need basking heat and maybe even supplemental heat.
- Sponges or bags of moss, etc. can be soaked and hung in warm areas to produce humidity without wet substrates.
- A sturdy, tip-proof tank of heated water will, by itself, produce a lot of humidity. Some keepers just keep a small tropical fish tank in their larger tortoise habitats for this purpose. A large jar or vase secured from tipping with a fish heater in it will do quite a bit. Adding a bubbler makes it even more effective.
- A simple jug with a small hole can provide a drip of water to a plant, a heated surface (like a rock under a heating element), onto a sponge, etc. My guys seem to like a slow drip in the water dish to attract their attention.

 

[fifthdawn]

Hmm is a heat emitter not enough? or is a basking light also required? I figured if anything, they'll sit under the heat emitter.

I'll stick with the hand spray first and see how hard it is to keep humidity. I might also try putting on the wet end, a wire top screen with a wet towel sitting on top.

I want to add plants, but I'm not exactly sure how to do so. The only substrate I plan on using is saphg moss, and I doubt itll reach over 2 inches deep. I'm not sure to dump the soil in..or just have the pot sitting inside so the tortoise can't ever each it. I have a feeling store bought plants are treated with chemicals. Is it better to just pick up plants from outside?

Another option I've read somewhere is to use dead or broken off tree branches and keep it inside the cage. It gives it a natural lookg and the leaf will hold moister and branch will block tortoise view making it seem like environment is bigger than it is. I also doubt they'll eat the tree leaves or branch. I'm just not sure how clean any of it is.

 

[terryo]

2 in of substrate isn't really that deep.
I have a screen on top of the enclosure and I cover most of it with clear wrapping tape. I leave an opening for the long tube light and there is a hole in the screen for the heat emitter. Warm, dark, and humid....they love it.
I wouldn't use a basking light. How big is your enclosure? If it isn't that big you can get a lower wt. heat emitter, or a higher one if it is bigger. Nothing is written in stone. Whatever works for you as long as you stick to the basics.
Post some pictures when you are done.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

YIKES!!!!!

I can see why you are confused...............

Your trouble started when you read all of those different and contradicting caresheets.. and then you came here and saw what one of the "best" vivarium creators out there has done for her redfoot - in a 75 gallon aquarium with years and years of experience at creating fish-ponds and 'landscape', etc.! No wonder you are overwhelmed!

And then you are given around 10 scenarios/'options' to consider ----- I'm confused.. and I've been chasin' turtles and tortises over the past 50+ years!!!

I have to ask.. how many redfoot tortoises do you have? Their sizes?

If you are having this much trouble/confusion just getting the enclosure set up..... what are you going to do if your redfoot hatchling stays in his hide most of the time.. or doesn't come out and runs around for hour on end?

Keep it simple.. decide on ONE way you want to do it and stick with that! The caresheets in the links in my signature keep it as simple as it can get..... and they do show the results after 4-5 YEARS of following them!

NERD

 

[fifthdawn]

its kind of silly enclosure..but its huge. I haven't bought the redfoot yet until I get the enclosure right. Theres a local pet shop that sells a 4'' redfoot and is holding it for me until I'm ready.

Have you seen the cardboard boxes that holds water heaters? Its about as tall as I am..so roughly 3 x 6 feet? I just plan on cutting one of the walls off and put plastic lining over it to prevent wood rot.

Fill it up with moss, I guess a lot more than 2'' now. Maybe 6ish? I've never worked with moss..I get this idea that its soft..so I have this image of it sinking into the moss if its too high LOL. I just hope 2-3 bags of http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=2554 is enough.

One end which I expect to be the cooler end will be there his log will be so he can hide. I'll probably cover that part of it so it remains dark and dry. The other end which will be the warm end is the part I plan on misting and having food and water bowl. I'll probably keep a 100 watt heat emitter in the middle so he can choose where he wants to chill.

And I think thats it unless I'm missing something. The rest is just decoration.

As to diet, I'll stick with Terry K's method.

 

[terryo]

OMG! Terry K's right. I am sorry if I confused you.....keep it simple...just go here: http://www.redfoots.com/redfoot.htm
look at the pictures for the age group or your tortoise ....and do it.
I think it's great that you are doing all this research before you get your little guy.
I am just a nut for plants and such, and think everyone is like that...sorry...it really is so much more simple that all this that is going on....

 

[fifthdawn]

lol its okay, it wasn't intentional. Yea I'll follow those guidelines and worry about plants later.