Redfoot baby won't eat greens

[Avocado034]

so, i'm the one who got 2 baby redfoots about a week ago and one was super lethargic. Well, now they are both mobile and eating, although the "sick" one hides most of the day and refuses to eat things that are good for him!

1. My tortoises don't get up on their own. When I go to class I soak them for about 10 mins, then put them next to their food plate and make sure they eat a little. I feel like I am "forcing" a routine on them, but this weekend I thought I would let them try it on their own and they never "got up" so in the afternoon, I did the same routine. Is this normal?

Also, temperatures are at least in the 75-80 on their hide side in the morning, so they aren't too cold. I turn on the mercury vapor heat lamp in the a.m around 8, but still no action.

2. The "sick" one is better, but he REALLY needs the extra help and hates eating greens. he *might* eat a hibiscus leaf bite, but mostly he only eats on fruit days. I am worried he is not getting his nutrients and that is why he is more lethargic. The breeder I got him from fed mostly mazuri food and fruit, but I heard that is bad for him, so I don't want to give into just giving him the food he likes....

They get out about every day for an hour- i just sit in the backyard and watch them.

Any suggestions??? Thanks
Annie

 

[Chucky]

75-80 F is too cold. Try raising the temps in the hide 85F to 90F. Also make sure the humidity in the hide is at least 75% but higher is recommended. Also, you do not need to soak them, just spray them with a squirt bottle every time you see them. What kind of lighting do you have and is their hide dark? Little ones do not like the light that much and that could be another reason they stay hidden. Hope this helps.

 

[Jentortmom]

Like chucky said you need to warm up the hot side, For eating I would suggest sending the food through a food processor, the food will be in tiny bites and when he eats he will get more, a suggestion you could try until he eats the greens then decrease as he starts eating would be chop up his favorite fruit really small and mix in with the greens, that way he gets greens and fruit at the same time. It has worked for all of mine, you could also try strawberries, mash them into a jelly and top the greens with them. If they are to cold they won't eat, so raise there hot side, make sure you have uvb on them, and try feeding them in the middle of the enclosure that way they are not directly under the heat lamp. Good Luck..

 

[Avocado034]

Well, my hot side is 85-90-95º, its the shaded side that is usually around 80. they are kind of under the heat lamp, so i will try moving a bit more to the shady side. Thanks for the great idea about the "jam" and mashing... that is a good call

 

[elegans]

I have raised plenty of redfoots and your temps are fine. So no worries there. I keep my babies in central ac so they rarely go above 80 unless in their hot spot. Humidity is definitely a different issue, for their eyes sake they do want to be fairly humid. Redfoots are not as much of a forest tortoise as most people think though. I spent 3 months in Venezuela and they were most often found on the plains. Yellowfoots were found in the forest. As a side note Mazuri is not bad for them, it was in fact developed as a complete diet for Galops. Years of testing, lots of money and research went into this product. That being said I certainly do not and would not encourage someone to feed it exclusively. I just think that our animals want some variety, call it quality of life. LOL I should feed myself so well. Best wishes Douglas Beard / Flora & Fauna

 

[Crazy1]

Annie, try reading http://www.turtletary.com/redfootcare.htm and
http://www.redfoots.com/redfoot.htm They have great info for RF care.

 

[Avocado034]

Hi Robyn, I've read those about a thousand times

But thats not exactly my problem, but thanks

 

[Itort]

One thing you may try is using is a ceremic heat emitter instead of the mercury vapor light. Remember that you have small young animals that see bright daylight as when the predators are out (hawks) and you should hide. By keeping light dim you may get more movement out of the little guy. For food I would try a variety of greens to see which one it prefers. If it is eating fruit this will sustain it for awhile.

 

[Redfootedboxturtles]

I have never had to try this but ive read threads on here saying it worked. Get a fresh straw berry and rub or squeeze the jucie onto the greens. The smell might get him goin.

 

[Madkins007]

Avocado, may I offer some tough love?

You say you've read TurtleTary/RedfootNERD's sites several times, but you are keeping your guys too cool, and you do forced soaks (which I personally feel are very stressful for many torts, but that is just an opinion) and some otherthings that I do not believe you read about in the site.

I would...
1. Stop the soaks and leave them alone. Keep them hydrated with moist foods, good humidity control, and freely available water.
2. Dim the lamp. Mercury vapor lamps used for heating tend to be REALLY bright, and VERY high in UVB. Monitor their eyes carefully- if they look raw, swollen, or are squinty they may be getting a form of UVB burn. Personally, I'd dump the mercury vapro and heat with a ceramic heater and use a separate, smaller, more controllable bulb for light and UVB. (My guys are a LOT more active since I went to a mere 15 watt utility bulb in their habitat.)
3. Start chopping up fruit and greens and mix them. Go heavy on the fruit at first, then ease it off. OR try serving some fruit on a bed of greens.
4. What greens have you tried? Most of our guys really like dandelions, violet leaves, etc. Is there anything they go for when they can graze outside? Cactus pads are also great!

Good luck!

 

[cvalda]

I'm going to have to agree here. My Red-Foots have a dark hide kept in the low 90's, and the ambient temp in the rest of the enclosure is low 80's. I only have a small part of the enclosures lighted (and this helps keep up the temps), and I keep the humidity dripping. Yours really need higher temps.

As for eating... I had four girls that would not come out to eat for a very long time. I feed them based on Turtletary's feeding schedule - and I brought them out at the same time every day for their feeding and showed them the food. At first they'd run back and hide, then they started eating as long as I brought them out... it took two months of keeping in this schedule before all four of them started to come out and eat on their own!

So just keep up the schedule, and keep offering the healthy foods per turtletary.com 's schedule. They'll come around eventually!! They won't let themselves starve unless they are REALLY sick.

Also, do away with the forced soaking. Leave them an appropriately sized soaking dish and they'll do it on their own when they need... mine tend to soak at night when I'm sleeping; I know this because they're will be water splashed out, and substrate in the water, in the mornings!

Good luck!

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Hi Robyn, I've read those about a thousand times

But thats not exactly my problem, but thanks

Gee.. maybe you need to follow what you've read 1000 times?

Everyone else that does.. has happy, healthy redfoots!

Exactly what is the problem???

 

[Redfoot NERD]

I have raised plenty of redfoots and your temps are fine. So no worries there. I keep my babies in central ac so they rarely go above 80 unless in their hot spot. Humidity is definitely a different issue, for their eyes sake they do want to be fairly humid. Redfoots are not as much of a forest tortoise as most people think though. I spent 3 months in Venezuela and they were most often found on the plains. Yellowfoots were found in the forest. As a side note Mazuri is not bad for them, it was in fact developed as a complete diet for Galops. Years of testing, lots of money and research went into this product. That being said I certainly do not and would not encourage someone to feed it exclusively. I just think that our animals want some variety, call it quality of life. LOL I should feed myself so well. Best wishes Douglas Beard / Flora & Fauna

Douglas.. how many hatchlings did you see on the plains of Venezuela?

My friend that was born in Venezuela tells me it seldom [ if ever ] gets as low as 80F!

And do you know [ or realize there is ] the difference between plant protein and animal protein?

 

[terryo]

I have raised plenty of redfoots and your temps are fine. So no worries there. I keep my babies in central ac so they rarely go above 80 unless in their hot spot. Humidity is definitely a different issue, for their eyes sake they do want to be fairly humid. Redfoots are not as much of a forest tortoise as most people think though. I spent 3 months in Venezuela and they were most often found on the plains. Yellowfoots were found in the forest. As a side note Mazuri is not bad for them, it was in fact developed as a complete diet for Galops. Years of testing, lots of money and research went into this product. That being said I certainly do not and would not encourage someone to feed it exclusively. I just think that our animals want some variety, call it quality of life. LOL I should feed myself so well. Best wishes Douglas Beard / Flora & Fauna

Douglas.. how many hatchlings did you see on the plains of Venezuela?

My friend that was born in Venezuela tells me it seldom [ if ever ] gets as low as 80F!

And do you know [ or realize there is ] the difference between plant protein and animal protein?

Venezuela is a big place it seems, but it looks pretty hot and humid there.....Here is a listing of he temp's there.
http://www.wunderground.com/global/VN.html

 

[Avocado034]

Everything I have read (including your advice, madkins) says keeping the hot side between 85-90 which it is under the mercury vapor bulb. the shaded side where the hide is 80º during the day and may dip to 75º at night. so, tell me if this is wrong.

I was soaking the tortoises as per my breeders and a few other forum's advice to help them become more active- usually I just spray them several times a day.

These are my first tortoises and there is a LOT of information out there. I am doing as much research as I can and reading as many different opinions I can to do the best for the tortoises. Maybe you should just be helpful instead of be-rating me. Thanks.

Avocado, may I offer some tough love?

You say you've read TurtleTary/RedfootNERD's sites several times, but you are keeping your guys too cool, and you do forced soaks (which I personally feel are very stressful for many torts, but that is just an opinion) and some otherthings that I do not believe you read about in the site.

I would...
1. Stop the soaks and leave them alone. Keep them hydrated with moist foods, good humidity control, and freely available water.
2. Dim the lamp. Mercury vapor lamps used for heating tend to be REALLY bright, and VERY high in UVB. Monitor their eyes carefully- if they look raw, swollen, or are squinty they may be getting a form of UVB burn. Personally, I'd dump the mercury vapro and heat with a ceramic heater and use a separate, smaller, more controllable bulb for light and UVB. (My guys are a LOT more active since I went to a mere 15 watt utility bulb in their habitat.)
3. Start chopping up fruit and greens and mix them. Go heavy on the fruit at first, then ease it off. OR try serving some fruit on a bed of greens.
4. What greens have you tried? Most of our guys really like dandelions, violet leaves, etc. Is there anything they go for when they can graze outside? Cactus pads are also great!

Good luck!

 

[elegans]

I never keep water in my enclosures with babies, I am completely against that as an idea. Redfoots tend to sh*t in their water and then they or their cage mates will drink it. Soaks still the best way to go. Temps are fine, stop worrying about that. Lights are a whole different matter, they may in fact be too bright. I always offer a hide. This solves most problems. Best Douglas

 

[Redfoot NERD]

First of all "A" nobody is 'be-rating' you.

Had you read [ and understood/followed ] the caresheets of ours.. you would realize you have it backwards. The reason I ask is that you have the lights/temps reversed!

It needs to be warm and humid in their "hide" / shaded 'half'. And never below 80 in the lighted area where they basically just eat.. not bask. This is explained.. and why.. on the caresheets we have created which has taken 5 years to develop.

"Most" of what 'madkins' said he got from our caresheet anyway.

And I would ask anyone that gives contradicting info how many hatchlings they have raised on "their" caresheets to become "proven" breeders.. and what the [ proven breeders' ] hatchlings look like as 3 year-olds.

{ I'm still waiting for answers from Douglas }

And a BIG concern with hatchlings is "de-hydration".. they need water available at all times! And since they eat their own.. and others' feces.. it matters not that they do 'poop' in their water-dish. So no water-dish is dangerous.

Forced-soakings is forced stress! The best way to get your [ normally inactive ] redfoot tortoise more active is to keep the temps up where they live. The link that terryo posted showed those temps.. the lower temps were from areas in the higher elevations where redfoots aren't normally found?

YES!.. continue to spray them every chance you get!

So if I wasn't trying to be helpfull I wouldn't be taking the time to post the info that I have. And you have already found that the more you "research" the more contradiction/opinions you find. My caresheets are based on facts and years of experience and hatching/starting over 200 redfoots to date.

For whatever all of this is worth...

 

[Jentortmom]

Avocado034 try chopping the greens up in tiny bites, maybe even run through the food processor - then top with mashed up strawberry or bannana (almost like a jelly) I have yet to have a tort turn up the nose with this, when they go for the strawberry or bannana they will get the greens. Second try feeding them on the nonlighted side of the enclosure. Don't feed directly under the lights, try taking the mercury vapor bulb out and swaping for a heat emitter and a small wattage bulb. When setting up there habitat think about where they live in the wild - the rainforest warm, dark, damp, areas. As for water bowls, I have one in every enclosure I would rather them go to the "bathroom" in the water and keep there enclosures clean. I have no problem changing the water a couple times a day if need be. Hope the info helps.

 

[Avocado034]

jen- THANK YOU- that was the answer I was looking for. I went out and bought a 15 watt light this morning. I am putting them outside for a few hours every day so I am not so concerned with the UVB now. (I live in New Orleans- hot, humid, and under a bush). I will try the food processing idea today

THANKS AGAIN!!

 

[elegans]

Wow Terry, I just thought that I would let you know that I have been keeping reptiles and rodents full time since 1992. I have not really kept count, but I would guess that I have hatched in excess of 400 sulcattas, 400 redfoots and 120 SriLankan stars. Plus others, forced saoking has not traumatized any of them. I will have second gen SriLankan hatchlings in one or two more years. Cheers Douglas